Orrery Introduction

RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 543 ✭✭✭✭
Alright, for starters, I'm absolutely loving the new Orrery combat. It gives people something to fight for beyond just ylem. Also gives people something to do beyond emote-throwing or idling for days on end. So this thread is to 1) provide thanks for something to do and 2) provide criticisms.

My only criticism is that you should change the 'open pk' rules to INCLUDE anyone holding a globe. Reason being you are essentially being a carrier for a globe so your side can "win" and as such should be able to hunted down and killed for doing so.

Other than that, great implementation.


KelliaraRizgarAxiusXeniaDzekkAislingFezzixLeana
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Comments

  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 187 ✭✭✭
    I'd say 'anyone holding the opposing faction's globes' rather than 'everyone'. If everyone's open PK, then it'll devolve into me/Serrice/Dzekk/etc killing all the dark noncoms while Trikal/Fezz/Toz/you/etc kill all the light noncoms.

    Which quickly leads to people going SCREW THIS.

    .. the hours are -way- too long, as is. Maybe twice a day for a fixed time period, rather than the full 72 hours? Right now it's too easy for people with a lot of time on their hands to gather orbs and dump it all to their side while no one's around that can successfully contest them (see: Trikal).
    DzekkAislingLeana
  • SerriceSerrice the Black Fox Member Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wouldn't know if fixed time periods are good, since they penalize people in different time zones. Definitely maybe a shorter total sum of time, though. I can't imagine trying to do this for another 24 hours. People have lives.
     
    Leana
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 543 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    @Eliadon I never said 'everyone is open PK'... just anyone who holds a globe, regardless of side. So if for example you have a novice who is holding the globe of spirit/shadow, they are open pk. If they aren't holding any globes, we can't kill them unless they're in the orrery area.


  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 187 ✭✭✭
    Right, but then noncoms literally can't do anything to help their side other than 'try to find the globes and don't do anything beyond that.'
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 575 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    As far as time totals go, I'm not sure that decreasing the available time is the best idea.

    I get the argument, but it seems to me more time actually reduces the pressure on people to make themselves available for the entire thing, rather than increasing it, because it means they don't have to suspend part of their lives to be involved.

    Because I feel like I might not be very clear, let me give an example: If the window for influencing the orrery is only say 8 hours long, it means that people are, perhaps not forced, but pressured to make themselves available during that eight hours.

    For those of us in weird time zones, jobs, families, other committments (which I'll bet is 99.9% of players in one form or another) we can't necesarily commit to just buckling down during that period.

    On the other hand, having a period of time a' la the originally intended 72 hours, means that people can participate as they're available. They don't have to worry about missing what's going on, because there's enough time for everyone to get involved. Further, it gives plenty of time for more pvp, conflict, and the back and forth between which side is winning.

    I'm also inclined to agree with @rhyot. I'd like to be able to attack anyone holding a globe, it gives another option for trying to stifle or slow the enemy team when they have a good foothold at the orrery.

    Just my 10c on the issue.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
    Rhyot
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 187 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    72 hours doesn't encourage people to participate at any point when it's open, it encourages things like what happened today: we sat on it for fourteen hours until we got it Spirit aligned. =\

    It'll basically be 'how many people can we get for the last 12 hours? Okay, we'll get it spirit infused.'
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, the orrery going from t5 shadow to t2 spirit over the course of 12 hours seems unfortunate-- be nice if all that work prior mattered, but come-from-behind victories are also needed or else people get snowballed and drop off at the end of the event. I'm not sure what the 'happy balance' is but I'm pretty pleased with all the good times I had minus one person going out of their way to break pk rules explicitly for me!

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
    KelliaraRhyotXeniaFezzix
  • RhyotRhyot BloodlochMember Posts: 543 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it will open up the gatherers to get pk'd if all they're doing is gathering. But you are more than capable of sparing a few defenders to assist the gatherers. Does this open you up for PK if you're defending a gatherer? Absolutely. But it offers a more strategic standpoint to fight/defend rather than throwing yourself against or trying to eliminate a group of 13+ people who have the central room 100% fortified.

    So in essence, a noncom CAN still support their side, they might just need to have a few guardians in order to do it. Opening up PK to globe holders isn't going to (shouldn't) stop noncoms from participating.


    KelliaraLeana
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also good idea from Trikal: to prevent accidental lame/cheese, maybe make the entrance/exit in/out instead of north/south. I can stand all the way north and snipe the mid group while being in a non open pk zone myself.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
    KelliaraEliadonXenia
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress SwedenMember Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It might perhaps be good letting non-PKers speak up about their feelings on being opened up for PK instead of PKers assuming they will be fine with it and feel good about still participating no matter what. The globes do after all take quite a bit of damage to hold after all. A Novice, for example, would not be able to hold them for long.

    Perhaps put a timer on the globes that makes them respawn after being held for more than a few minutes from pick-up without being infused. Could even let them stay "charged up". Perhaps give them a random chance to respawn if they change hands, so you have to be the one holding them the entire time to ensure they're not lost. Perhaps make the damage increase more drastically if you're holding a globe of the opposing tether?

    There are lots of options other than involving non-PKers in PK and still letting everyone participate. I'm not saying my ideas are the best. I'm sure there are plenty of other ways.



    Kelliara
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe something like 6 hours on 6 off throughout a few days so it's not just a nonstop grind.
    Aisling
  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My understanding is this event is a PK event, if a noncom wants to participate in a PK event, I think that's awesome! Also they should accept being there is likely to get them killed in someway or another, probably by another player.

    FezzixRhyotLeana
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Re the lead swapping so easy, what if there was a pylon or something that was a strict 1:1 ratio and had to be undone before you could undo the orrery? So like, you could advance your lead (diminishing returns) OR just fortify up and solidify your lead?

    edit: And yeah, while I'm all for letting everyone play, this IS a pk event and you're open to get dropped as soon as you walk into the orrery. So it's still going to involve you potentially dying, and 'let the noncomms help' is less important here imo than balancing the obvious pk mechanic. I mean, RP ballroom dancing doesn't get PK components added to help the comms out, right?

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
    FezzixXenia
  • RasaniRasani Member Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    I think the problem with it being "this IS a pk event" and not having a way for noncoms to contribute is that it's not taking into account newbies and stuff. Like, my intro to pk events was being a noncom with something for me to do to help the pkers. I don't think there's any harm in trying to make sure noncoms can contribute in a way that won't get them knocked all the way back down to level one, because we know BOTH SIDES would cheese the unicorns out of anyone carrying a globe of any kind if that were the case.

    And considering most events that include rp usually include a combat part as well, that argument doesn't really hold. Skythrone had both, and we saw there how impossible it was for noncoms to get involved. I don't think there's any harm in letting noncoms introduce themselves in a safer way.

    I think it would be good to let anyone holding an opposing sides globe to be open pk, no matter where. It makes it a lot harder to just hoard them all and play keep away, or I mean hey, if you're looking for combat it's a perfect way to get yourself some enemies to fight!
    FezzixAisling
  • FezzixFezzix Member Posts: 324 ✭✭✭✭
    @Rasani : You can't be PK'd down to level 1. Exp loss is almost negligible in Aetolia.

    We have had two PK events this year, those being the Three Widow War and this Orrery event. The rest have all been either exclusively centered around RP or included some minor bashing elements, so I don't see why these combat-oriented events should be tailored to include newbies. PK'ers need events, too, and they often get the short end of the stick.

    Aetolia's combat system is one of the main talking points in attracting new players and retaining veterans, and simply witnessing the high activity gives newbies something to strive towards. More than half the lessons and credits spent in game are towards combat-centered items and skills, so it would be good for the game overall if we kept our PK events centered more around PK.

    I understand you like to be more inclusive with the game's current player base, but we've lost a lot of PK'ers because of a lack of PK events. They get bored, and watering down PK events might not be enough to retain them.
    Arbre
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's not exactly terribly compelling as an action without a pk component involved really. They sphere aspect was mostly just grindy and boring/frustrating at least until the host of changes were put in. Probably down to just grindy now.
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress SwedenMember Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess I've missed out on all the fun world-wide RP events happening, since the only events I can recall are the PK-oriented ones mentioned by Fezz. The Three Widows war had a very nice way of allowing non-coms to get involved though. You didn't have to fight if you didn't want to. You don't get that option here if you make carrying globes a PKable offense, so yes, then it will be a full-out PK event. If that's the point of all this, then by all means, make handling the globes PKable as well. As long as it's all made clear.

    In this case, holding on to the globes was painful as unicorns, but it was worth it, feeling like I was playing "hot potato" and being involved without having to fight. I probably wouldn't have managed the entire time, which would have reset the globe again and allowing the other side to grab it if they found it first. The globes didn't reset their damage when changing hands, meaning you couldn't hand it over to someone else without possibly killing them in the process.

    Personally, I had a lot of fun trying to figure out interesting tactics during the short time I was helping out there in the end. I did not have the skills to conceal, so I didn't do that, but I came up with a different idea. I don't think it is reasonable to expect five people of varying strengths and abilities in PK to go up against the top 6-8 PKers on the opposing side and hope to gain anything, but I think it is quite reasonable for them to try to find other ways to not just hand over the victory. Let's face it, we've all been involved in stalling tactics when it comes to preventing the other side at Major foci. It's a legit tactic if you don't have the numbers to truly contend. You move things up, you make preparations in case you get an opening and you try to make sure the other side don't get the upper hand.



  • FezzixFezzix Member Posts: 324 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Teani said:

    I guess I've missed out on all the fun world-wide RP events happening, since the only events I can recall are the PK-oriented ones mentioned by Fezz. The Three Widows war had a very nice way of allowing non-coms to get involved though. You didn't have to fight if you didn't want to.

    Actually, the entire zone was open pk during the war. Lifers had every right to kill you, but you managed to convince them not to. If Rizgar and Dato had been playing, I can almost guarantee that they would not have been so merciful.

    EDIT: As for the "world wide" RP events, we just got done with one. Skythrone shards. We also had Yvalamon emerge. There have also been plenty of smaller, guild-centric events that happened in the game that were tailored to smaller groups.
  • TeaniTeani Shadow Mistress SwedenMember Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    @Fezzix: as I mentioned, I think I've missed all the RP-related events. They've been run at night, my time. All of them. Never experienced Yvalamon. Never experienced the Skythrone thing with the shards and the Speaker (both two events that involve new deities).

    If the suggestions are made, and go through, to pull this one down to a shorter window, it's likely something a lot of people might miss out, so I think keeping the window open, but perhaps modifying the way it is swayed might be a good thing. A longer event means people can actually come around and participate no matter what timezone they are in.



  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rasani said:

    I think the problem with it being "this IS a pk event" and not having a way for noncoms to contribute is that it's not taking into account newbies and stuff. Like, my intro to pk events was being a noncom with something for me do to help the pkers. I don't think there's any harm in trying to make sure noncoms can contribute in a way that won't get them knocked all the way back down to level one, because we know BOTH SIDES would cheese the unicorns out of anyone carrying a globe of any kind if that were the case.


    This is an interesting point, but I think it also makes assumptions that having an experience in which you find yourself overwhelmed and killed is going to result as a negative experience.

    I was introduced into PK when Enorian was stricter about their bounty system and people got bountied for hunting in Teinhelm or something. Let me paint the picture here: True noob me playing for a few days, week tops, very casually. I know nothing about the lore, I have never thrown an emote in my life and I'm just sort of following around an Achean who made an Aetolian character in a hunt. I die to something in Teinhelm, while I'm in the death sequence I see that I have been branded an enemy to Enorian. My thoughts, "oh, there must be an NPC named Enorian in that city. Cool!". Later on I come to find there's a bounty on my head that comes with this. I don't know what this means and I ignore it. A few hours later some noncom is trying to pick off a newbie kill by shooting arrows from afar. I find them and charge after spamming a first tier bashing attack. Said noncom runs, calls an alert and a bigger badder person comes out and kills me. A big fight results after between factions and boom, I've been initiated into PK.

    This was the best thing that could have happened to me because right from the start and before I got overly invested in what image my character was going to have; I learned to accept the reality to RP when it involves martial competence. I've always thought the strongest character growth occurred when Xenia throws into a cause which will force her to be on her toes and have to actually -try- to accomplish.

    This argument that noncoms need something is like insisting the base line of a game should be easy mode because it's too hard, and thats just insulting.

    HavenFezzixKillienTrikal
  • KillienKillien Member Posts: 38 ✭✭✭
    The Orrery, as soon as I saw it, made me think of landmarks. From a pk perspective, landmarks were absolutely AMAZING. They happened semi-regularly, they were contained to a specific area, and the benefits from winning the landmarks were tangible. Exactly like the Orrery.

    Thankfully, the Orrery doesn't give the negatives that not having landmarks gave (no passive essence/devotion regen anyone?), but it gave something for those who enjoyed open-world pk something to do for x amount of time (It was like seven days?).

    Now, back during that time, even though it was not explicitly spelled out, everyone agreed that if you went gathering pages/buckets/butterflies or whatever other landmark-specific items, and someone saw you, you were involving yourself, therefore saying "I am open to pk." Everything in this event, from the inception to the HELP file, makes this sound like it caters to people who want to spend 72 hours fighting over something that is not ylem. I know the help file explicitly says that picking up essence doesn't mean you can be killed, but all I read when I see that is, "Have your force hold the observatory while your minions gather minerals essence."

    I'm all for getting people who don't enjoy fighting involved in the game and doing more, but it should be understood that to you can't have it all if you choose to not learn a part of the game. The Orrery catering to both PKers and non-coms, to me, seems more like a reflection of population, not necessarily design.
  • RasaniRasani Member Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    Xenia said:

    Rasani said:

    I think the problem with it being "this IS a pk event" and not having a way for noncoms to contribute is that it's not taking into account newbies and stuff. Like, my intro to pk events was being a noncom with something for me do to help the pkers. I don't think there's any harm in trying to make sure noncoms can contribute in a way that won't get them knocked all the way back down to level one, because we know BOTH SIDES would cheese the unicorns out of anyone carrying a globe of any kind if that were the case.


    This is an interesting point, but I think it also makes assumptions that having an experience in which you find yourself overwhelmed and killed is going to result as a negative experience.

    I was introduced into PK when Enorian was stricter about their bounty system and people got bountied for hunting in Teinhelm or something. Let me paint the picture here: True noob me playing for a few days, week tops, very casually. I know nothing about the lore, I have never thrown an emote in my life and I'm just sort of following around an Achean who made an Aetolian character in a hunt. I die to something in Teinhelm, while I'm in the death sequence I see that I have been branded an enemy to Enorian. My thoughts, "oh, there must be an NPC named Enorian in that city. Cool!". Later on I come to find there's a bounty on my head that comes with this. I don't know what this means and I ignore it. A few hours later some noncom is trying to pick off a newbie kill by shooting arrows from afar. I find them and charge after spamming a first tier bashing attack. Said noncom runs, calls an alert and a bigger badder person comes out and kills me. A big fight results after between factions and boom, I've been initiated into PK.

    This was the best thing that could have happened to me because right from the start and before I got overly invested in what image my character was going to have; I learned to accept the reality to RP when it involves martial competence. I've always thought the strongest character growth occurred when Xenia throws into a cause which will force her to be on her toes and have to actually -try- to accomplish.

    This argument that noncoms need something is like insisting the base line of a game should be easy mode because it's too hard, and thats just insulting.
    It's not that they need something 'easy mode' , it's that PK, as all the PKers know, takes time to learn! I liked having the option to help in a way that wasn't combat as I was still learning combat. Each person is going to have their own preference, but I don't see why the simple change from "any globe" to "globes of the other side" is a huge point of contention. I know for a fact plenty of noncoms DIDN'T join the Skythrone war because the noncom stuff became "pick something up and pkers kill you". It become a huge conversation in Enorian, actually.

    Not to mention, the idea that anything that's noncom being 'easy mode' is the actual insulting thing. At the time of the Skythrone war, we had a player who DID want to get involved but, as result of using Screenreader, couldn't really participate in PK and the noncoms from the lifer side were getting slaughtered for stepping foot into the area. I understand people will say "well you can't accommodate everyone" but, well, this event would've done a pretty sweet job of doing it! Having a PK zone around the target and letting noncoms gather items takes into account that not everyone interacts with the game in the same way, and I think that's pretty stellar.

    Mind you, I totally understand that PKers need more events and it looks like this is absolutely their response to try and make sure they get what they're after. I'm sure we'll start seeing more stuff like this, perfected and tweaked until it's just right, and that's cool. I just hope we can try and keep these sorts of things in mind as we continue to discuss and tweak this sort of event.
    Aisling
  • AislingAisling Member Posts: 7
    edited December 2016
    I'd like to add that the Three Widows event's perception is only that way on players who were in Spinesreach/Bloodloch during the event. There was an attempt at a truce, it fell apart very quickly and I know, to this day, a bunch of noncom players who wanted to participate but simply couldn't, would walk in and be immediately jumped, caused a lot of frustration and stress. When you add the option to PK all gatherers, you effectively remove the option for noncoms to participate in at least one side. The option to PK people holding globes that were tethered opposite to them would work perfectly to ensure noncoms could still participate, and those wanting to risk disrupting the game and getting in the way would be subject to attacks. Could be as simple as adding an aura if you pick up a globe that isn't the one for your side.

    I also agree with it being open only some hours during the day, enough that it covers multiple timezones, and still allows time for people to log off and rest and not feel guilty(something I also hear often from other players). PK is difficult, and requires a number of things to be able to be done with any efficiency. I particularly loved the inclusion of noncoms in this event, and I know for a fact many of the players in the guild and city I am part of feel the same way.

    Saying this event is a PK event is ignoring the explicit rules the admin laid out. There's a reason only a certain area of the event is open-pk, and a reason to them explicitly saying globe-holders are not open-pk - so others can participate. Same way there's a reason there have been so many changes to globe-holding and such, so there is no stalemate while a side holds the globes outside a PK zone, and they are still accessible and the game can go on.

    Calling this an "easy mode" means disregarding how other people play it - people who craft, who just rp, who play in politics, who just bash. Those players are valuable too, keeping them included is a good way to ensure Aetolia grows. We don't force people to craft, we don't force them to RP or get involved in politics, and these people still get involved in events, the same should be said for people who don't want to PK.
    LinFezzixLeanaRhyot
  • MihaketiMihaketi Member Posts: 100 ✭✭✭
    A staggered set of activity periods of a few hours scattered over the full 72 hour period might be a good way to avoid PVP fatigue. It would be easier for a busy player to block out an hour or two a few times in a week than try to lock down a solid eight hour block or such, and it would let people rationalize with 'okay I'll just say up till this block is over' rather than feeling obligated to see out a longer period.

    I do think it's good to allow for less experienced PVPers or noncombatants to be involved in 'PK events' but I'm not sure if exploiting what amount to loopholes in code is the best way to do it. Some kind of support role (maybe using bashing to influence globe spawns or such, idk) would probably be more effective than having them directly tied into the funmurder.
  • MihaketiMihaketi Member Posts: 100 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I think the issue here is that if you wanted to get involved in those events, there is absolutely no bar to entry other than wanting to get involved, and you lose and gain nothing by participating other than potentially having a bit of fun. PVP is tied into a lot of different mechanical aspects of the game and requires a fairly high investment of time to learn to do, which means it becomes presented as 'you can't do this thing' rather than 'you could do this thing if you wanted'.

    Not saying I agree with the idea that the PVP aspects should be restricted to allow for noncom entry, but I don't think it's as direct a comparison as you're making.
    Emelle
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mihaketi said:

    I think the issue here is that if you wanted to get involved in those events, there is absolutely no bar to entry other than wanting to get involved, and you lose and gain nothing by participating other than potentially having a bit of fun. PVP is tied into a lot of different mechanical aspects of the game and requires a fairly high investment of time to learn to do, which means it becomes presented as 'you can't do this thing' rather than 'you could do this thing if you wanted'.

    Not saying I agree with the idea that the PVP aspects should be restricted to allow for noncom entry, but I don't think it's as direct a comparison as you're making.

    PVP involvement ISN'T that hard, though. Right now we're getting rolled by a group of luminaries spamming sap and absolve - 2 skills and like 3 triggers, turn on firstaid, and lifers can help. I think it IS a direct comparison too because I can teach a kid to use CATS in like a week, but teaching someone to write/craft/RP is going to take way longer.

    I'd argue, in fact, that doing well/being useful in a lot of RP scenes/crafting scenes takes longer than it does to be helpful at PK. Even if you just stand there looping shield until you die, at least you soaked some hits for your team.

    Either way though, by making this more noncomm inclusive you are making this more PKer EXCLUSIVE because that's more hoops we have to jump through in order to get our fun. If you had to wade through me spamming telepathy on you to collect your ingredients, or if Fezzix got to shoot arrows at you while you danced, it'd be more difficult/less fun, right? It's more or less the same thing.

    That doesn't mean I will be breaking rules, and that sure doesn't mean I won't issue/take revenge on people who break the rules (that'll be fun soon too!), but it does detract from the experience so sayeth the PK crowd I have talked to so far.

    Arbre-Today at 7:27 PM

    You're a vindictive lil unicorn
    ---------------------------

    Lartus-Today at 7:16 PM

    oh wait, toz is famous
    ---------------------------

    Karhast-Today at 7:01 PM

    You're a singularity of unicorns awfulness Toz
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you could probably show up and kill everyone for trying to cook dishes you morally disagreed with somehow but I imagine there would be consequences.
    Leana
  • AislingAisling Member Posts: 7
    Fezzix said:

    I put in the work to get good at different aspects of the game, and I am able to play the character the way I do because of said work. If someone wants to RP as being some mighty paragon of the Light or deadly Shadow Warrior and then gets irritated when they can't PK to back it up, that's their own fault for making the choice.

    Don't demand that PK events be tailored to a group of players that it's not meant to entertain. Crafting, politics, etc. are all perfectly valid outlets, but let's be real here. Big events (and PK events as an extension) are the backbone of the game that keep it interesting. PK and hunting events are the cake, politics are the icing that holds the layers together and gives flavor, and crafting is the creative decorating that makes it pop.

    Without PK events, we're left with a big mess of icing and those little hard sugar balls that crack your teeth if you bite into them without knowing they're there. Or we're left playing dress up with Barbie dolls and making up plots to our own Aetolian soap operas.

    Comparing crafting competitions that hardly ever have any effect on the lore to events like the Orrery that involves Abhorash, the War of Night and other factors, just as Three Widows did with the Atav, influence from Albedi Gods, and interaction with the many villages around the area, is not really an argument against what I posted here. If you think the two are the same thing, there's nothing I can do. You're still calling this a PK event despite the admin's measures to include other people. PK involves a good degree of coding knowledge, time, and plenty other things lots of players don't have and shouldn't be required to have to be involved in the game's lore.

    And trying to say that any noncom wanting to just do their part to help their city(just as they can with ylem with mines and, in a lot of cases, minor foci) is trying to RP some mighty paragon that can't back it up is also untrue, and not really matching what actually happens in game. Nobody is stopping the PK from happening, it still happened. It happened a LOT, during the few hours we were there. I spent all of yesterday doing nothing but organizing groups, pking within my group, and calling more people to come and do MORE PK.

    Asking that events that largely affect the lore and stories of Aetolia only cater to people who are willing to PK is excluding a large portion of the playerbase. It's fine if YOU feel the game is made up of PK and hunting, and the rest is decorative, but that is just your view, and the game is open to more, and in order for it to grow, they can accomodate more. What this event did was not stopping the PK, the rules in place didn't keep it from happening, it just allowed more people to participate.

    Most of the people I play with play this game for the RP aspect, some of them play it for the crafting aspect, those are also valid views and ways to play the game. The point is, though, that these people do not necessarily expect others to do what they do.
    RhyotFezzixLeana
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