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Edit: That is to say, Spirit gives it a shot when outnumbered just as often as Shadow does. Likewise, Shadow stays home or gives up when faced with greater numbers just as often as Spirit does.
Though one side sure is louder than the other after fights but some of that comes down to the culture on one side or the other. At some point Shadow lost their extreme dislike of using shouts at all times.
You detect 24 other people in that location.
And then you get someone shouting at the end 'WE WIN!"
At the time, even if we'd fielded every online member of both Enorian and Duiran we might just about have come up to that figure. The ensuing fight would have likely crashed the game due to lag.
But you're talking about deletion of a target within less than half a round of combat with those numbers. The current group combat meta isn't set up to handle that level of participation.
I'm going to reiterate a suggestion that @Fezzix (I think) once put forth which is that I do believe the mechanics behind the brawl (i.e. the more people trying to hit a single target, the less likely to hit it they are and the more likely they are to hit each other) needs to be brought in with this sudden surge in activity and interest re: group combat.
Things were just about manageable prior to the Covid lockdown when 9-12 players per side was considered a 'large group' but now that's become par for the course with 'big groups' tending to be 17-18 players per side. It just becomes a lag fest and a case of who can get through their single button mashing attack the quickest in the spam.
The implementation of the brawl mechanics would enforce much smaller skirmishes and require a much deeper and (to my mind) fun level of co-ordination rather than "omg zerg and bash" and "What route are we going?" "Well Susan, there's 15 of us so going for anything other than damage seems a bit pointless."
EDIT: tldr - my peeve is that I'd like something to be done about the huge lag-infected 15+ people per side group brawls that prove not to be much fun for anyone.
When I was still participating in combat, I'd jump in to help if help was needed or our side was losing. But once the group got large (around 10 or so), I'd usually go "Enh, you guys have a lot of people, you don't need me tagging along", and I'd go do something else.
Both sides are guilty of dog piling to create overwhelming odds that make the opposing group just go LOL NOPE and not engage at all.
Why..? It's your character, play her how you made her and do so unapologetically. People need to learn to separate IC from OOC and stop being over sensitive. A basic no brainer of RP is that our characters can hate each other but that shouldn't affect how we treat each other OOC at all.
On another note, if someone takes something that happened IC to OOC channels to whine at you, just ignore it. I've done some incredibly naughty things in my time as Drystin but it's all IC and has no bearing on how I feel about people OOC.
We don't all enjoy playing polite and predictable characters and Aetolia would be boring af if everyone did. By all means, I think if anything you could turn Aya up a notch.
There have been many times where I've gone to a lesser, was made lead, and we had something like 6 people. Spirit side rolls in with 13 people and roll us. In good faith, I'll usually tell someone in the group who I'm on good standing with that we're done. And -sometimes- when I do this, I get a taunting response back of "But why? You can still come fight us with your 6 people. It can be fun!" I mostly just laugh it off and put off with a GG mentality. I get it, it's PK and everyone wants a good slice of the pie. I don't mind the taunting, I think it's amusing. Hell, I do it too sometimes (usually in tells and again with people who I know will play back).
If people taunt, it's all in good fun. If you want, taunt back. This is what RP is. What happens after is a naturally occuring thing that you see in sportsball games.
Idk. I'm of the opinion to taunt away. Have fun with it!!
Re brawl mechanics: No. Just no. You would never be able to properly gauge/separate team sizes with that and it would ultimately skew combat as a whole.
Lastly...... OMG PLEASE FIX THE FUCKING LAG!!!
I don't want people to feel like the one-death rule has a corollary that everyone gets one free kill. I have, and will, punish for a single death. Use your common sense, and context matters. Harassment is a different beast from the single death rule.
Someone bothers you for days, is horrible and mean. Then they kill you once. The meanness continues even after Ignore. That's beyond just a single death. There's a whole lot more to that issue than just the one death! It wouldn't fall under that clause. @Czcibor actually has the right of it: the rule is there to prevent us from being swamped with silly issues, not to have a bunch of bad behavior coast under a bar.
Also, threatening with issues makes me mad. The Admin are not your hammer to wave. If something is issuable, ISSUE IT. It's what we're here for. If it's not, don't waste our time. When something crosses into issue territory, it's a game problem and needs to be dealt with. It's never a tool you have the option to use as a threat.
Croak about how they should dress better in the cold mountains.
Victory.
So for clarification: am I not allowed to go after the person who attacked me unprovoked in a non-PK zone after an allotted amount of time? It's only been an OOC week, if that. Yes, I am scrying them and going after them, but nothing that would remotely border on harassment. All of my actions are justifiable in game.
I fully understand being put off by aspects of another's RP. I fully understand actions taking place around you that may very well ruffle feathers or sour moods. It's an inevitable in a game filled with so many personalities, especially personalities that will often conflict. However, it's important that everyone is reminded to take a step back, take a deep breath, and honestly and fairly analyze why a situation or shout or any form of RP has hurt your feelings OOC. As someone who has previously played an incredibly inflammatory character, I can guarantee that the reason, 9 times out of 10, is less for reasons of harassment or any real attempt to upset another and more often than not because the opposing party has decided to take the RP personally.
We are all, mostly, mature adults who happen to play a dark fantasy game filled with conflict. I agree that people need to be aware of how their RP and actions, OOC or IC, can hurt others, but that's a two way street. RP is, largely, not an attempt to upset someone OOC or harass them (it's fairly clear when it is, and those sorts of situations are rarely, if ever, actually reported on the forums). You don't like that a side gloats or taunts or does anything villainous? You probably need to disable those channels of communication, then, and really think about why these things upset you and how to properly address that.
Can throw out the, "It's just RP lol" rebuttal all you like. But when there's players who legitimately enjoy constantly trying to rile others up just for the sake of it, and make things as unfun as possible, the rebuttal tends to lose a lot of its weight.
eta: Also I'm pretty sure if the person threatens to issue, admin in the past have dismissed issues outright because of those comments.
I just wanna touch real quick on your whole still going to it even when outnumbered thing. Just after that orrery last night the mud crashed. On return only 3... count 3 spirit side people who were in the combat channel logged back in because they weren't afk... and then 2 more side from that. Out of the nearly 20 something people who logged back on afterwards.
Now I don't know how many on your side at the time were specifically combat but I do know someone mentioned you had roughly 11 at orrery. 3 vs 11. Not fun. 3 vs 11 is "I wanna just go in there and die." But you taunted. I get it... maybe you didn't realize just how many were actually available to fight, and I am not asking any of you to bring less people, all I am asking is to show a little restraint in the taunts, particularly during very low activity hours. Think of it as something of a compromise... if we come fight, you have every right to taunt when we lose. If nobody comes, there is likely good reason and maybe try not to rub it in.
On another note about every other issue brought up, I apologize that it blew up into that. I don't care if spirit is outnumbered, I am use to it, I try when people are willing to go try but I won't go at it alone as it really is not fun to me... even as a joke.
I do understand what you are saying but I would like to point something out: Aya is very much a Carnifex. She will not turn down any challenge (so long as I am not on phonetolia), no matter who or her chances of winning. That said, she taunts when no one comes primarily because, to her, that is so much worse than coming and dying. If the spirit side came and died, they have gathered her respect and there will be little taunting (unless it is aimed at someone she does not care for). If that makes any sense. That said, what you ask is fair. I do not know all your combatants so I usually do not know how many you all have. I do know your only real leader is Benedicto. So I will try and keep aware of these things with her taunting, but I am far from perfect.
Hey everyone is human and your answer is literally all I was asking for... an attempt to make situations a little less frustrating when they happen.
And If you got a specific target to shout and poke at with a stick. Far be it from me to stop you
(Spoilered because the post is long)
I am sceptical of someone using the excuse, "It's what my character would do" to condone harassment, toxicity, or overall unpleasantness with an unwilling party. Even justified, there is still a choice to carry it out. When it crosses the line into needless hostility, I consider it more of an OOC choice to continue pressing the narrative where it doesn't want to go. The excuse can be used in any situation to remove the player from reproach and I find that unsettling.
If a person is toxic, unwilling to join in the story, and is overall unpleasant - continuing to engage with them is an OOC choice as much as an IC one because there will be no return on your actions and they become completely one-sided at that point. If the situation were dropped entirely nothing would change for the characters involved. The one who doesn't want to engage had no interest in changing and the initiating party may never gain the personal satisfaction they seek if they never fulfil the hostility. Subjectively, if what your character wants at that point is revenge, that's fine too. But, you're establishing that your character can be petty, which is also fine.
Some people can't separate themselves from their roleplay for numerous reasons. Roleplaying an idealized version of yourself is a more natural and easy way to go about things. Not condemning it, I do too. With all that said above, it really falls to the party being offended or upset to really take that second to think and grow and for the initiating party to back off to allow that to happen, despite how it might break the story. We have to think long-term with Aetolia since we could be stuck with these people for years. I would be satisfied if people stopped holding grudges and gave others more chances to be different.
Simple thing. Say a joke goes the wrong way and suddenly you've been killed and or enemied. A disagreement goes from between two people to orgs going at it because neither person can admit they are wrong. It doesn't happen often, but when it does I'm likely to just call it a night and go idle in a training room or something.
The mechanisms to resolve these issues exist so use them if you think its necessary but with an ever dwindling player base I'd hope we can avoid running people off. Rather than worrying that someone might get their little feelings hurt because a character is too abrasive in some way to them ICly, how about we as a community get back to the meat and potatoes of roleplaying and explain the separation of IC and OOC when one of our own gets upset. And yes, I've seen veterans of this game forget some foundational principles of RP at times when the emotions take over. It happens. We've ALL done it.
Imagine playing D&D and your lawful good paladin rages about the chaotic evil assassin's choice to stab him in the back and make off with all the gold while he's occupied with two orcs. Wtf did he expect? lol! Aetolia is no different. We each play a hopefully unique, and different character and the interaction between such drastically different characters is what makes roleplay fun. Some of us are pious beacons of light and justice, some are just bubbly and kind, some are brooding but honorable assholes, some are sadistic in the extreme, some are shady af and you never know what to expect.
As a RPer you HAVE to understand that you're going to encounter many different characters from your own and you have to adapt accordingly rather than try and force everyone to fit your mold of what 'should be' because that simply will never happen. Just relax, have fun with each other and roll with it guys but remember that it's a fantasy and when you're getting too upset, too easily, it's time for a break.
- Only shouts from Admin, Celani, and Divine can bypass SHOUTSOFF.
- SHOUTS are toggleable and are off by default from character generation. Which means that unless you're one of the original characters from 10+ years ago, everyone turned those shouts on willingly and can still turn them off.
- Market tells exist for quick and easy global advertisements.
- Public boards offer another method of global communication.
- ISSUE exists for all forms of harassment that you want admin to come investigate and settle.
- IGNORE exists for the sole purpose of giving yourself peace of mind when all other options have failed. Who cares what anyone else might think? USE. IT.
Players have every right to play antagonists or villains if they want to play that role. Those of you wanting to RP heroes are under no obligation to engage any of these antagonists. There is NO SHAME in just NOT ENGAGING. The game has dozens upon dozens of ways to disengage from conflict. Use. Them."B'aww! But my RP!" No. Your RP is what YOU choose to do for entertainment. If you're not entertained, even after taking a step back to cool off after tensions are high, why are you still doing it? It's you and your pride.
Basically: your character is gonna get killed sometimes. Don't let it get to you, and use it as an opportunity for future roleplay or to develop your character getting good at combat.