Mildly Irritating: Aetolia's Pet Peeves

Xavin

Okay. But from a game design standpoint. In no other game would it be acceptable to have to rely on the hope that someone happens to have a stockpile of some resource that is required for so many things. Take silver, for instance. There is hardly an enchantment that does not take silver, or gold. Both can also be used for curatives. Silver or gold are also base, required, commodities for almost everything in jewelcrafting. How is it reasonable to not have a reliable way to generate commodities that are needed day to day? Why was it acceptable to shut off the generation of these things without having a plan in place?

There are people in the pools that have been around long enough that they have seen how these things happen despite best efforts. I'm not trying to belittle or say that they don't care or do a bad job, but it is -incredibly- frustrating that this is still an issue, and that the issues that have been brought up with what comms we -can- generate have largely been ignored in favor of a 'we will fix it when mining comes out'.

Edit: Announce 2493 on January 4th of 2016 was when commodity production was shut off. It has almost been four and a half years, and some of the changes in that post were made in the wake of a promo artifact that made gold generation nuts for certain types of players. It strikes me that again and again we see changes made as a result of things that were maybe not the best thought out. Skillsets, both cosmetic and practical, should not be bottle necked because the things needed for them aren't readily available. Major changes like this should not be implemented until their replacement systems are ready.

Phoenecia

It's both amusing and frustrating that not only can you not be completely self-sufficient as a player, but it seems like cities can't be either, and the game mechanics seem to reinforce that. While the only thing stopping people and cities from asking for comms from other people or making trades is pride, I do understand that a lot of people don't even want to be in that position in the first place. 

I, personally, have not had much problems with Farming and Production because I've only been growing stuff for myself, and I usually end up producing way more than I can actually use, so I end up selling or stockpiling it in my shop cache. While I enjoy farming for the most part, I do recognize that there's still a lot of problems with it and Production.

Wood still has the absolute lowest harvest and production yield of all producable comms, and the severe bottlenecking in production queues means it takes a long time to get any kind of return, and the usage of said comms far out paces the rate they can be produced. The changes to Herbalism and Apothecary were definitely helpful in alleviating the strain in producing cures, but the commodity situation is still a point of complaint for people simply because of how many things use commodities - especially ones that are a pain to get now.

Jewelcrafting and enchantment both use a lot of gold and silver. Woodcraft, Furniture, and Sentinel traps need a ton of wood. Forging requires steel. Tailoring eats up cloth like no tomorrow. And unless you're a farmer (or even if you're a farmer) and have lots of gold and time to spend, getting all of these comms is time consuming and prohibitively expensive to the point where people will just opt to not make anything or stop playing. And when stuff is more expensive to produce, those costs get transferred to the price of produced items. And unless you're bashing or questing a ton, stuff gets expensive VERY quickly, which is kind of punishing for new or casual players.

The game has gotten kind of grindy, and unless you're a high leveled player that's bashing or questing all the time or farming the Fracture, stuff is going to be difficult, and it creates a huge disparity in wealth. 

Rhyot

I would like to remind everyone, that a couple years ago the admins had a Townhall where comm production came up a few times. In this townhall it was stated that they had a whole brand new commodity system they were prepared to release (or was in progress of working on releasing) but they were waiting for cities to completely dry up on their commodities. Instead of cities going along with this prospect, the inverse happened. Cities stockpiled and hoarded instead of using their comms they already had.

So from what I'm seeing and based from previous townhalls, everything is kinda going as planned. Sure, some cities might be worse off than others, but I also feel this is by design to try to implement their new comm system (if there really is a new comm system).

Xavin

Except we know that is blatantly not true @Rhyot. We know for a fact Mining isn't ready or it would have been released Q1 of this year like they initially projected.

So one of the two things is a lie. Either they had/have a plan and a system ready in which case why has it been four years when they could easily have just run a mini event and cut city comm supplies for the new system, or they didn't have a plan/system in place and they made a major change knowing that.

I understand that some of the people working on this stuff are volunteers and have lives. I understand that even the paid employees have lives outside the game and are expected to keep specific hours. But it has been four years. And it feels like we've been fed lines.

Edit: I keep feeling the need to clarify. I'm not trying to attack the paid or volunteer staff. That's not my intent at all. But it's incredibly frustrating how hard it is for people to use abilities that they have, in some cases, paid real money for because of something that, if we accept it was a problem, has been made far, far worse in the attempt to fix it as a result of certain decisions.

Edit 2: In my mind here is what needs to happen. For starters, commodity production for cities needs to be turned back on to cover commodities not in the current agriculture system at a reasonable rate of generation. This should only be turned off when a new system to create those commodities has been implemented. The second thing that needs to happen is that the flaws in the agriculture system need to be addressed. Either the time to refine resources into commodities needs to be drastically reduced, the yield needs to be dramatically increased, or both. There is absolutely no reason for people to be waiting real life weeks for commodities that they already spent upwards of a real life month working for.

Seurimas

This reminds me of a random Pet Peeve related to commodity pricing: What's with people selling at below commodity value on stuff? If it's in a guild shop or something, fine, but I've seen shops in enemy cities selling enchantments for around half the commodity cost. I like cheap stuff, but I hate competing with people who break the laws of economics.

Mjoll

they probably had a stash of comms from 10 years ago or got a pile of them in a promo. I'm sitting on 1k silver, 1k gold, 1k stone and 500~ ice/ash from the egg hunt lol

Phoenecia

That's the exception, not the norm, though. I have a lot of comms because there's been a few people that have retired over the last while that give me everything in their cache when they do. But otherwise? With stuff like gold and silver, I buy the small trickle that's available in village comm shops, but only when the prices are relatively cheap

Oonagh

I've sold pretty much all of mine back to Cities to help out when there have been commodity drives.
I keep a very small amount because I felt like hoarding it was a bigger problem, that being said, it has bit me in the ass.
I should have just hoarded them and not contributed to the economy. Absolutely do not believe that commodity drives are any kind of solution.
You just end up shafted as the player.

Whoops.

Iazamat

In this townhall it was stated that they had a whole brand new commodity system they were prepared to release (or was in progress of working on releasing) but they were waiting for cities to completely dry up on their commodities. Instead of cities going along with this prospect, the inverse happened. Cities stockpiled and hoarded instead of using their comms they already had.

It cannot be stated enough how much this was either a lie or misdirection, as Xavin points out. The cities who hoarded ended up coming out on top, there's no room for argument there. Meanwhile, Spinesreach, one of the cities who played the admin's game and didn't hoard, had to nag and whinge and have a literal meltdown at Tiur until he salvaged their commodity situation to keep them from cratering and/or bleeding players.

From an outsider's perspective, it looks as if there was no plan, especially with Farming releasing 3 years after the fact. We never should have had to either flush our own commodities or hoard - resetting the commodity tables to be in line with their economic plan should have been what happened. As a result, players have suffered, we've bled people who simply don't want to deal with the situation, and now we're having monthly (weekly?) rants about the commodity situation in certain cities. All of this with very little communication from our Producer beyond "Soon."

I'm grateful for what our volunteers and paid staff do for us, I am. But systems as important as these should be given priority and an all hands on deck approach, and our Producer of all people should recognize the significance of implementing systems such as these and responding to feedback and complaints in a timely manner.

Czcienn

I feel like there's no fair way to do it but if we want to move forward and make sure things are right from now on, the best way is to wait until all the systems are in place and are in a good state and then resetting everyone's comms to set levels. It's just impossible to balance the commodities acquired before such a big overhaul against those acquired after.

Aishia

Every city had commodity bailouts multiple times over the years as far as I'm aware.

Benedicto

People still apparently being incapable of toggling SafePK on in some format. Even if it's just the warning.

Phoenecia

When you send messages or tells to someone who you've interacted with a lot in the past, but now seem to never respond because they're either AFK or fishing and the tells/messages get lost in the spam. But this happens literally every time they're online. It's been frustrating because this has been happening for a while now, and I can't tell if they're ignoring me or just missing the messages. If it's the former, just use the damn IGNORE command so I can stop trying to contact you. If it's the latter, then please, for the love of god, actually respond to messages so I'll know whether I can stop wasting my time. 

Zaila

I totally get the desire to want an explanation, and how irritating it is to feel ghosted, but that wouldn't be the right way for them to use IGNORE. Especially if it's IC communication they're not getting back on, since IGNORE is meant to be an entirely OOC mechanic.

Iazamat

Unless something has changed, ignore exists as both an IC and OOC way to, well, ignore people you no longer want to interact with and/or are being harassed/bothered by. Just as you can use ignore IC as a way to get the last word (and people absolutely do this), a player can then take offense IC and kill you for it, but ignore exists for both IC and OOC purposes. Unless something has changed, of course. If it has, please let me know.

Fezzix

When mobs hit you on the same prompt in which they turn aggressive. Just let me kite half of the daemons out of the room.

Aloli

Hello Phoenecia,

I agree with Zaila and Iazamat that there are other ways to handle that kind of frustration without suggesting to resort to the IGNORE function as it is meant to give complete communication relief.

Still, I want to point out that if you have tried to get in touch with someone, multiple times, and you have not had a response, continuing to message them will only serve to frustrate yourself and them and you'll work yourself up as you have done, probably them too.

For what it's worth, and this is entirely none of my business - I'm just sharing my opinion, when you've tried to talk to someone at least twice and they haven't gotten back to you, let it go, give them space and silence. If or when they want to communicate, they will.

I've done it a few of times where someone says something to me and I didn't hear it or see it because I was caught up in something else or overwhelmed by something else but I when I remember I go back and apologize for not answering in time. Sometimes I don't remember at all and still go back and communicate with them as usual, if I want.

Point is if you've tried to message and got nothing back, doing it over and over again isn't going to help anyone, least of all yourself.

I hope that helps alleviate that frustration a little.

Aniko

If I had a dollar for every message I have sent Aloli that gets lost in her spam... I just wait.

Oonagh

Buy a rune....




REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Sanir

Trying to rewrite code I haven't so much as looked at, in 5+ years.

Teani

Fezzix said:

When mobs hit you on the same prompt in which they turn aggressive. Just let me kite half of the daemons out of the room.

I step into the room and this is the first strike, all within one prompt:

H:7076 M:6900 B:100% Mad:33% [db eb] [hsp ema ftr]
- - ATTACK - SLASH
Info: a CRITICAL hit!
Damage done: 3148 (1574 overkill), cutting, brute - 3148
A sinewy Aslinn slaver steps in to defend a sinewy Aslinn slaver!
A sinewy Aslinn slaver steps in to defend a sinewy Aslinn slaver!
A sinewy Aslinn slaver steps in to defend a sinewy Aslinn slaver!
A sinewy Aslinn slaver steps in to defend a sinewy Aslinn slaver!
- - ATTACK - SLASH
Info: a CRUSHING CRITICAL hit!
Damage done: 6296, cutting, brute - 9444

Your blindness defense has been stripped.
Your deafness defense has been stripped.
A sinewy Aslinn slaver stalks forward to close the distance between you and him, lashing out with a
closed fist to pummel you in submission.
Health Lost: 4591, blunt, none
A sinewy Aslinn slaver stalks forward to close the distance between you and him, lashing out with a
closed fist to pummel you in submission.
Health Lost: 4010, blunt, none
You have been slain by a sinewy Aslinn slaver.
You were afflicted by asthma.
Experience Lost: 116159 [total: 16235646]
The corpse of a scarred Aslinn slaver falls out of your inventory.
The corpse of a scarred Aslinn slaver falls out of your inventory.
The corpse of a gaunt Aslinn slaver falls out of your inventory.
The corpse of a scarred Aslinn slaver falls out of your inventory.
As your mind slips into death, your animalistic madness recedes.
A strange and desolate mire.
This room has not been mapped.
You find the weather around you imperceptible. A pale archway of cracked, battered marble stands
amid massed ranks of mummified figures, casting no shadow against the earth.
There are no obvious exits.
H:0 M:6900 B:100% Mad:0% [eb] [hsp ema ftr] [-100%]

Sanir

One of the best additions I made for my basher, was adding a weight system to mobs in higher level areas. If the combined weight of mobs in room exceeds (x) amount, don't automatically attack on entry, even with overkill up. (though I had a manual override if I knew I'd be safe) - Also plays an annoying alert sound, if it's exceeded by too much.

Massively reduced how many times I died!

Teani

Sanir said:

One of the best additions I made for my basher, was adding a weight system to mobs in higher level areas. If the combined weight of mobs in room exceeds (x) amount, don't automatically attack on entry, even with overkill up. (though I had a manual override if I knew I'd be safe)

Massively reduced how many times I died!

It's not really that. It's the fact that there's no time between warning and attack. In this case I died, sure, but it wouldn't have felt so bad had they warned I would soon be pounced, with a pause after to allow a silent prayer of some kind (or more likely a curse). It's just annoying. It's even worse when the mobs are aggro and jump you when you step into the room, without a hit, because then you can't even use your calculations to slip out of the room before you're dead.

Nisavi

Being called a "toxic asshole", threatened with an issue, and then snubbed because my character goes after someone who literally attacked them when they asked them and one other person not to get involved in a fight between an ally and an enemy at NoT... then proceed to attack my character after I asked them not to attack my ally. Ironically, I went there to watch the fight and make sure no one got teamed.

Your character's actions have consequences. I've been pretty good about not attacking folks outside of conflict areas even though I could've been marginally justified to do so within the bounds of "one death" and not being Open PK at the time. What I don't appreciate is someone immediately devolving into out-of-character mudslinging for my character having legitimate reasoning to go after theirs. I've come a long way in not being a dick about PK, taking a breather, and ensuring that I'm not in a gray area when I do jump people. There is no gray in this, though.

Edit: Worth noting that I'm not unreasonable either. There are legitimate ways that said person's character could've handled it IG first, such as maybe apologizing to my character. They made no attempt to do this. Just straight into OOC insults, threats, and mudslinging -- none of which is cool. If I do get an apology now, I want it for myself.

Czcienn

All I'm going to say is that when someone is feeling harassed, no amount of crying "one death" will make whomever is being targeted feel any better about it. I think we should take a step back and think about the spirit of the rule rather than what it literally says. It's there to prevent people who don't want to engage with someone from having to deal with them every time they log in. I could make someone's life very miserable without ever killing them and justify it with good RP reasons and while I could quote "one death" I don't think that's actually the environment we want for this game. Attack them once, twice, maybe even three times. Good, they ran every time and you made your point, but that's where it should stop.

More generally, I feel it is an apt time to remind everyone that even in normal times we should try to make the game an environment that is more inclusive rather than just a place where we entertain ourselves at the expense of others. This is only more true in the crazy, and honestly quite depressing, world that we currently find ourselves in. Many people use Aetolia as an escape from that. Just keep that in mind.

Nisavi

Czcibor said:

All I'm going to say is that when someone is feeling harassed, no amount of crying "one death" will make whomever is being targeted feel any better about it. I think we should take a step back and think about the spirit of the rule rather than what it literally says. It's there to prevent people who don't want to engage with someone from having to deal with them every time they log in. I could make someone's life very miserable without ever killing them and justify it with good RP reasons and while I could quote "one death" I don't think that's actually the environment we want for this game. Attack them once, twice, maybe even three times. Good, they ran every time and you made your point, but that's where it should stop.

More generally, I feel it is an apt time to remind everyone that even in normal times we should try to make the game an environment that is more inclusive rather than just a place where we entertain ourselves at the expense of others. This is only more true in the crazy, and honestly quite depressing, world that we currently find ourselves in. Many people use Aetolia as an escape from that. Just keep that in mind.

I haven't even attacked this person. The extent of it has been a prism tattoo. Additionally, while I agree with this, the onus is also on the player to not get their character involved in those kinds of situations if the in-character consequences are not something they want to go through. I fully am aware that if Nisavi attacks someone outside of an open PK area, I am accepting the risk of getting attacked by that person later. If I attack someone in Enorian or Duiran, I fully expect and accept to be enemied and bountied for it. This is kind of what I mean. Not to mention, I was wholly willing to potentially allow this individual to have their character apologize and flat out stop going after them. Instead, they chose to engage solely with OOC insults, a snubbing, and an issue threat. That's not roleplay. I'm all for escapism and avoiding unpleasant situations, but the responsibility for avoiding those unpleasant situations falls on that player.

Aniko

This honestly needs to be said.
Most of the time shadow side outnumbers spirit side. It's a given, not going to complain, I have someone on both and yes its more fun to be shadow, you get less restrictions and as a result more options for things you can get away with doing as well. Probably why they have so many people.
So with that in mind... save for wee morning hours when spirit can snag a few more in numbers, dark side wins.

What is mildly annoying is having those people go on shout and taunt and tease the spirit side... KNOWING there isn't a snowballs chance in hell they can even do anything about it at the time.

Win an even fight... then gloat... but when you double the numbers of the other side its just mean as a player to stick it to them.

Shut up. Take your win and move on. Rubbing it in the other sides faces like that literally just makes you look like an asshole.

Sanir

Aniko said:

Win an even fight... then gloat... but when you double the numbers of the other side its just mean as a player to stick it to them.

What's equally annoying is there are those who'll come out with "you only won because you had more people". Honestly the whole situation is why I always pull back on committing so much to playing here. People are sore losers as much as they are sore winners, and it just gets really old, really fast.

Czcienn

Take heart in knowing that the ones who gloat are almost always the ones who need the numbers the most.

Ayastia

Aniko said:

This honestly needs to be said.
Most of the time shadow side outnumbers spirit side. It's a given, not going to complain, I have someone on both and yes its more fun to be shadow, you get less restrictions and as a result more options for things you can get away with doing as well. Probably why they have so many people.
So with that in mind... save for wee morning hours when spirit can snag a few more in numbers, dark side wins.

What is mildly annoying is having those people go on shout and taunt and tease the spirit side... KNOWING there isn't a snowballs chance in hell they can even do anything about it at the time.

Win an even fight... then gloat... but when you double the numbers of the other side its just mean as a player to stick it to them.

Shut up. Take your win and move on. Rubbing it in the other sides faces like that literally just makes you look like an unicorns.

I would like to say a few things to this.

1) We all know Ayastia is a mouth b**** and she starts this more often than not.

2) The reason the shadow side does this is because even if outnumbered, we will give it a go, even if we know the best we can do is be mild irritants.

3) We do win even fights (sometimes)

4) Mostly we do it to try and get a rise out of you guys to come join the fight. It's all supposed to be for good fun. I, personally, have fun even if we get stomped.

And last but not least:

5) Personally, I never stopped to think about how it made you feel as players, if it was annoying or not. It was always intended in good fun for friendly (in an ooc sense) squabbles. I do apologize if it has irritated you oocly or even make you feel bad in some sense or other. That said, and I will apologize for this: Aya's mouth and shouting (be it at mortals or divine) just to get a rise out of them has become kind of a staple of her personality. Not so much the act as the 'give no f****' attitude. I will work on, over time, changing this aspect of her, but it is not something that will happen overnight.