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END OF DAYS IN NIGH.
Still keeping it 100, never at any point in my time of playing this game have I felt like a city that i've been in, be it Duiran or Enorian had a fair and balanced leadership. All of them were cliqueish at some point or another. If they weren't all cliqued up, then you had a series of arguments and contestation until it slowly became one clique or another. Now that isn't to say that whichever group was holding office did horrible things, because in fact, many of them did amazing things. However, this was one of the major reasons I never WANTED to run for office or hold any sort of position of power, because I felt like if i wasn't a part of the clique, I'd not have a shot. And if we're all honest with ourselves, this holds very true.
I'm gonna list a few examples, and please don't take these as a personal attack. As I said previously, some cliques facilitated healthy environments for their cities which is great. Still, it was very clear and obvious they helped each other acquire and maintain power.
There was the Sibatti era, as Seir mentioned, with Sibatti, Pilar, Kiyotan, Seir, Lin, and that one other dude who's name I forget.
Then there was the Bahir era with Xavin, Arbre, Elwyn, and Mariena, for the most part.
As for Enorian, there was Edhain's squad, with Edhain, Rehan, Yos, and whatever other Paladins were in the Guild under Edhain (I can't think of their names right now.)
As far as I can tell, all three of these groups did great things with their respective cities across their tenure. But I personally felt it intimidating asf if anyone dared to challenge them if they felt like they could do a better job. Great examples of why cliques aren't all bad.
But then I remember from a really good friend of mine telling me that he felt Nahasa's tenure of Spinesreach was the literal worst he'd ever experienced. That was quite a long time ago, but if I remember correctly, she had a clique in place too. He said she would be extremely toxic towards citymates for no real reason, and do things like disfavour people for simply saying hello over CT. He showed me a log of how afraid people were to talk over the city channel so much so that no citytells had been made for RL weeks. Great example of why cliques can be incredibly problematic.
I guess my point is, I really think that @Razmael (and any other administration that helped facilitate the idea) made perhaps the most intelligent decision ever by changing Duiran's leadership to be the way it is. I think somebody previously stated that it very well could possibly set the tone for other cities, and I completely agree with that. It's much harder to powergrab and maintain over several orgs rather than just one, and it'd facilitate a much more healthy and versatile environment. I think all the other cities should follow suit just to eliminate any future problems.
(Clip that leads to the above one:
Edit: And for good measure:
Addressing the notions of cliques:
Uh, I think it's really easy for people to glorify contributions of groups like Lin clique, Sibatti clique and have that overwhelm negative traits. I remember a particular forums post by Keshena back at the height of Sibatti clique where Keshena advocated for creating an "in-group" with super high standards that people were expected to meet. While creating an in-group is effective for galvanizing the troops to meet high standards of RP/ic interaction, the method employed to judge the "worthiness" of someone who enters the clique was problematic. A few members of each clique would beat players down when they tried to engage, with the intent being to make them fit into the high standards expected of them. This would happen in forums posts, ooc clans, IRC, Skype groups, and other communication mediums. Eventually it became the culture of the game to shame people instead of reaching out to them. This isn't to say that they NEVER reached out, but more to identify that encouraging players was not the default response. When someone is beaten down, they usually believe their success is unattainable in two ways: a.) the well is too far poisoned, b.) they no longer believe in their own potential. They were so exclusive that, as a friend pointed out to me, they had no one to replace them. Though the groups brought on major, positive change, they created a power vacuum that didn't leave anyone outside of their group to carry on the standards they set for the game, nevermind altering the climate of ooc interaction.
TL;DR: While I wouldn't dispute that these groups made positive contributions to the game, I think calling back to the "glory days" of these cliques as a sterling example of how players should be treated is disingenuous, and therefore, counterproductive.
My overall take on Duiran:
Let me first acknowledge that what is going on in Duiran - the metagaming, abuse etc. - is problematic. Duiran is essentially engaged in clique turf war over Duiran's progression and this warrants some sort of dramatic, major scale change. I'm not entirely sure that changing the structure in Duiran is the most productive way to solve the problem, though. The issue is that Duiran's culture has gotten very, very toxic but that isn't as a result of the governmental structure; the truth is that all politics run the risk of being exclusive/toxic. Whether or not they become that way is largely dependent on the culture influencing the playerbase. In cases of heated competition like between Wyll and Pilar, the people are going to vote for whomever they deem to be the most "productive" or who they think will make a "good leader". A lot of times, this includes whether or not they have pissed off enough of the playerbase. Someone like Wyll never would've been voted in during Sibatti's time because he didn't fit the definition of what a "productive" Duiranite woulda looked like (that's not to knock Wyll, that's just to point out the differences in perception). If by some fluke he would've been voted in, his tenure would've likely have been short because the vast majority of Duiran followed the expectations of that clique.
The problem Duiran faces is one of conflicted identity both as players and icly as Duiranites. Norms from two periods of Duiranite culture are battling it out, both of their methodology being problematic and toxic. @Xavin and @Toz put that best. As it stands, only portions of Duiran will be represented. Part of Duiran's culture is if one truly wants to protect the wilds then they can serve and will be fully respected, regardless of whether or not they have pledged allegiance to a Duiranite guild. By dividing the structure in the way administration has, they have only reinforced a different power vacuum. Now a portion of Duiran will go unrepresented, the politics of the guilds who represent Duiran - which are, by the way, entrenched in their own toxic atmospheres! - will now exclusively represent the interests of the city. Now only those who succeed in guild politics can elevate to positions of power in the council. I see these problems continuing.
TL;DR: Duiran has a conflicted identity, the two cliques warring over the council. The current solution will not remedy this because it constructs yet another power vacuum that enables under-representation and polarization toward people have existed in toxic guild atmospheres. Put plainly, it only continues the harms of the old system, groups are still being heavily excluded. This can only truly change with a change to culture overall.
I think changes to culture need to be game-wide. Duiran is a special case in that whole cliques are facing off but the issue is that standards have fallen across the board, rp being so rare that we need a clan to recognize who EVEN RPs. Like lol.
Ways to engage culture
-Do we have a thread talking about the different ways to be an efficient city council member and/or city ruler? Starting a community-wide conversation could be a good start.
-Gods need to interact more with mortals, encouraging rp and organizational development from their end.
-Encourage better ic/ooc separation as a community.
Obviously these suggestions are not exhaustive and won't completely solve the problem, but they're a start.
(Spinesreach): Xiuhcoatl says, "Oh man, grab the children-corn. This is gonna be good."
Either that or what happened to one person in particular last night needs to happen to the rest of the people refusing to let the people that were elected do what they were elected to do and what the admin have instructed them to do needs to happen to the rest of the trouble makers. This crap is beyond childish.
Spoilers: the admin have stated that tossing out toxic individuals from orgs is the right call.
(Speakers of Duiran): Razmael says, "For what it's worth, you made the right decision to kick out
toxic members of the council that aren't contributing anything. I can't protect you from IC
repercussions of that, but if people start filing issues at you for kicking them out of the council
due to toxic behaviour, I'll happily dismiss them."
(Speakers of Duiran): Razmael says, "And you can feel free to quote that at people too."
While we understand that we can not be protected from IC ramifications, we would like to point out that this toxic blend of rumor mongering, outright hatred for a singular person, and constant plotting to have the speakers turn against one another is ridiculous and harmful to the game in general.
I can't think anyone at this point is enjoying this sort of rp. At this point it doesn't FEEL like roleplay. It feels like an all out war until people are put into place who will not go for what the Admin want Durian to be.
We want to help Duiran. We are trying to do as the Admin have stated we should do, both in Townhall, posts, and countless warnings over city, in the meeting itself, and beyond.
I don't know what else you want from us.
Not only did a god step in an state plainly that there was no wrong doing done in the election process for the one Speaker, still the demands kept on to replace her on grounds of she stole the election or appointed herself to the position. In the end though had that person done what was being accused of them, I do believe that is where you could issue. I am pretty sure that threatening a player with removal from a guild for joining an election or contesting you is something that can be issued, removing a player from a guild for contesting you merely because they contested you I believe is also something that the Admin would not look favorably on.
It is almost to the point now where the three of us are saying why are we even bothering, if our ideas are not going to be looked at, if the players can not act in a mature way and realize the seriousness of the situation they are in and would rather take out an entire organization to satiate their lust for blood in their witch hunt against this one player, there is no point in even trying to put forth an effort to make the changes to rebuild Duiran as the Admin have directed with the guidance they have offered, because quite frankly as things are going its just going to be destroyed anyway, but I guess it will be worth it because at least that one person will no longer be in a position of authority anymore.
If you're going to cast aspersions on your leader, and stir up muck/trouble, then contest, don't be surprised if you're ousted when you lose that election. Heck if you're spending time doing that regardless, insubordination is enough of a reason to be ousted in the absence of an election. No one wants to put up with a member of their guild, city, whatever, who just tries to start drama or veer conversations into arguments. People who spend all their time calling other people out are not an asset. Heck even people who just spend all their time questioning decisions but have no real input are on thin ice.
I'm in the game for a good time, much like most other players, I guess. Hearing talk about totalitarianism and outright harassment is quite scary, especially considering the Admin are supposed to safeguard against at least one of these things. That is what shrubbing and bans are for, no?
I really hope things calm down and that people can start acting like human beings, rather than disconnecting themselves from their actions, just because they're all safe from harm behind a screen or a made up internet identity.
That said, if the Administration wants to move Duiran in a certain direction - a decision that is causing a lot of latent anguish to surface - then the Administration should consider taking over Duiran for a bit (via denizen) to move them along to wherever the Administration feels they need to go. Doing so would take the players - and their bad blood - out of the situation, and over time the players who shine (via merit and hard work - not name value or the fact that they have been around for forever) can be given the reigns back again.
One direction given by a third party that both cliques can either choose to follow or not follow (and leave), might be the best solution.
Edit: Fixed my 'it's 7am' English.
I'm glad i left if this still goes on. Basic rules like metagaming/personal attacks are getting broken and no-one's getting apprehended for them? I'd like to say it's shocking but it is exactly why i left so it's not really shocking that it's gotten worse.
They break the rules and ruin people's fun to this extent- shrub em. When you don't and instead try to find solutions and change mechanics and allow these people to still engage in the world, you send a message out to your players that you will cater to that kind of behaviour when the banhammer should have been wielded long ago.
It has caused several people to leave and it is not going to change in a hurry due to the ig political system that allows for power to shift around within a select few. It has been around always in one form or another but the last year it has hit a all time low with metagaming being used to force people out of the game to benefit a select few.
What can be done?
Not a lot given the climate and the lack of accountability on both levels of the game.
Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."
BUT that being said, You usually have to burn a lot of bridges before people as a WHOLE start turning on you. There's no vast conspiracy to drive people away. Most players are actually pretty cool dudes. There ARE problems for sure, but I don't think they're as endemic or even as ill-intentioned as you imagine. Heck tho, none of this really has to do with the problems Duiran was having, which was a lot more to do with clashing visions and people who just couldn't argue or work constructively together who kinda went OFF THE RAILS. It's not to say there were NO bad apples involved, but we're talking a pretty small/vocal minority here. It's true that perhaps something more DIRECT could have been done to curtail those people in specific I think. But I can see why trying for systemic changes instead might be more wise in the long term.
Like I don't want to go off on a tangent here but it's probably more constructive to shift/build support for more favorable leaders if you think someone is somehow DOMINATING your political scene in a negative way. You can't just be an angry lone wolf and expect your iconoclasm to stick with anyone else. I mean people are going to immediately flock to a better alternative, but if some vast majority prefers someone else it's probably pretty clear they're a cooler dude than you think.
Also I figured out how to do weird emoticons so.