Sanguis Revamp

Oleis

Many of you have noticed that we have once again declined to implement the approved reports for non-Rituos Praenomen in this liaison round. I wanted to go ahead and reassure you that we're not spurning vampires by sharing some details of our mechanical revamp of the Sanguis skill.

The two essential aspects of Praenomen combat will be the minion and Frenzy, though Swordplay does remain an option for supplemental affliction. Rather than adhering to the same few minion types, vampires will now be able to resurrect a wide variety of Aetolia's mobs for use as violent pets. By using empowerment abilities to strengthen and modify their next frenzy and similar mechanics to empower the minion's next attack, Praenomen will wield very flexible, easily modifiable offenses. For additional strategic choices, mutate the minion itself into one of several awful visages to change their default attacks, too. Two new afflictions and a gruesome finisher-style ability will expand kill-route flexibility.

I'm really excited about our possibilities here. @Valdus (with help from @Razmael and all our volunteers) has designed a great set of abilities. I'll be finishing the implementation pretty soon, and I'll be sure to update you all when we send it for a quick test and balance session. Feel free to ask your questions here, but please understand that I won't be getting into numbers just yet. A lot can change in a short period of time.

Draiman

Oh god, I kinda wish you would of just implemented the changes instead of warning me. I'm freaking out right now with both fear and joy.

Serrice

I'm sure it'll turn out great. Valdus and the team redid Carnifex and Sentinel, and I'm particularly pleased with how those turned out.

Oleis

One question has arisen -- Unlike the Hematurgy rework, which was a dramatic change for existing Bloodborn, Sanguis users are unlikely to notice a huge difference in the way they mechanically engage the skill. Most of the minion commands are staying the same, syntax will remain similar, etc. What we're aiming for is a layer of new abilities and features to change your strategic choices and options. Those of you with existing Sanguis offenses will indeed change many things about how you approach killing with the class, but it shouldn't feel foreign to you.

Aldric

A few reports were made, as well as a slough of discussion in regards to the concept of Sanguis being the sole skill that engulfs Sire/Childe interaction (blood monitor, blood vision, etc.) and the idea of perhaps merging that into Corpus, or making it something inherent to the Vampire subrace. Will this revamp be addressing this in any capacity, or will those skills be remaining within Sanguis beside the newer ones?

Oleis

It's something I'm open to but haven't done yet. I promised aspects of it in the Hematurgy revamp and failed to deliver, so it's definitely been on my mind. We'll look at a division between those two options (Corpus and innate) and make decisions for each component before this thing is over with.

Draiman

Are specializations staying/being changed with the revamp?

Ashmer

This is my expression of raw tear-jerking joy at this and my shameless plug to have Masquerade be an innate ability. Please let me Masquerade again.

Also, seconding @Serrice. Sentinel and Carnifex both turned out EXTREMELY well, and the rework of Sciomancer and Ascendril by @Keroc looks top-notch from what I've seen so far. Really really impressed and pleased overall and very excited for this.

Ishin

Sweet, now Draiman won't quit Aetolia and I can listen to his salty rage on Oasis even more.

YESSSSSSSS

Jensen

Draiman only takes naps from Aetolia. Nobody quits, NOBODY!

Draiman

Ishin said:

Sweet, now Draiman won't quit Aetolia and I can listen to his salty rage on Oasis even more.

YESSSSSSSS

Pls, if my class doesn't blow after this I'm going to wreck your face. First thing.

Oleis

Draiman said:

Are specializations staying/being changed with the revamp?

The details of their benefits and shortcomings might change, but their general structure will remain.

Sakyl

are the pets still gonna be temporary, even after mutations are applied? Or are they going to become akin to the Teradrim Golems?

Moirean

The addition of new afflictions concerns me. Are these going to be straight-up new afflictions, rendering older systems incapable? That's going to be frustrating if so.

Zsadist

They're giving us back Black Bile!

Riluo

The new main affliction we are getting is akin to retribution!








>.>

Draiman

Oasys is free, and either Riluo is a liar (<3 Ril) or the new first aid is a lot better than what everyone is assuming it is.

Malok

I must say, I'm extremely happy at this news. I've wanted something like this for years and years now. I hope it turns out well, and I hope the existing problems that plague the skillset don't translate over into the new stuff. I have faith, though.

Zsadist

When you "pretty soon" is that like the next 2 months kinda time frame or is this the Soon TM kinda time frame? Because its fairly vague.

Moirean

Draiman said:

Oasys is free, and either Riluo is a liar (<3 Ril) or the new first aid is a lot better than what everyone is assuming it is.</p>

Requiring people to constantly switch systems (and game clients) isn't a good way to sustain interest in PK. Systems aren't made by Aetolia, and there's no guarantee they will remain updated. Implementing things like new afflictions, however, can mean that people need to get new ones to remain competitive, which gets tiring. Until first-aid is buffed enough to truly be competitive with a system, first-aid is a throwaway answer. This is why I'm asking, to try to gauge what sort of thing new afflictions means. Are they going to be brand new things which change curing logic, or secondary things which proc off a combo of effects, for example.

More in general, Aetolia has seen affliction bloat over the years. More afflictions means combat is harder to learn (yes, that's a simplified statement, but I don't want to turn this into an essay). I know this revamp only mentions two, but it shows that design trend is continuing.

Oleis

Moirean said:

Oasys is free, and either Riluo is a liar (<3 Ril) or the new first aid is a lot better than what everyone is assuming it is.

Requiring people to constantly switch systems (and game clients) isn't a good way to sustain interest in PK. Systems aren't made by Aetolia, and there's no guarantee they will remain updated. Implementing things like new afflictions, however, can mean that people need to get new ones to remain competitive, which gets tiring. Until first-aid is buffed enough to truly be competitive with a system, first-aid is a throwaway answer. This is why I'm asking, to try to gauge what sort of thing new afflictions means. Are they going to be brand new things which change curing logic, or secondary things which proc off a combo of effects, for example. More in general, Aetolia has seen affliction bloat over the years. More afflictions means combat is harder to learn (yes, that's a simplified statement, but I don't want to turn this into an essay). I know this revamp only mentions two, but it shows that design trend is continuing.

Do you have firsthand experience with the new first aid? I would really love to get your feedback in a message or separate thread so we can work on it!

Draiman

I wasn't being sarcastic or trying to just throw an answer out there. I really mean that Riluo has used first aid to beat Lim and Ashmer both (or he's a giant liar like I also said). With an offense he claims is on his phone. I don't have any idea how strong first aid really is since the changes, but they did just do a bunch of work to it and I haven't heard of anyone but Riluo actually use it.

Edit: Ninja'd by Oleis

Moirean

Multiple people have said there's still a delay in input before it'll cure stuff. Is this information inaccurate?

Riluo

I use firstaid a lot currently at work and it is not too bad. I have even shown it to be useable to a point in my skill range. Is it a bit slow and clunky. Hell yes. Although I do fine against other mid-tier people with a bit of shielding. Once I go up against top-tier like (Lim /Ashmer etc) its useless so I just added a few basic things like attacks, a purify button and secondary messages for limp veins, paralysis and parry. It keeps me alive for a few moments if I get ahead.

Ashmer

So how about that Sanguis revamp.

Moirean

I think overall design choices are fair game for discussion, as those have impact on combat as a whole. I seem to be in a minority, however, so I'll leave this thread alone.

Pypo

I have to ask because so far, I have been excited by the wonderful synergy Carnifex and Teradrim were given with using pets to aid them in hunting. I would love to know Oleis, will vampire pets be given any means of hunting uses in tandem with most pet classes are going?

Carnifex hounds are really well handled! I can't think of it getting any better with their openings and interceptions on TOP of the breeding gives so many combinations of unique hounds its just been so much fun!

Teradrim's golem functions for both taking blows while fight with us, added on highly modifiable defenses to protect and aid their master.

I am very excited about the few dropped hints! An as we know, currently vampire pets absorb a tremendous amount of damage from a vampire, I'm curious if there will be more unique iconic skills and/or passive benefits that give some contributions to pvp and pve?

((edited to adjust some my translator spanglish >.<))

Draiman

You mentioned 2 new afflictions, but is that all we're getting, or are any more being added from the existing pool of afflictions Aetolia supports?

Will the minions attacks be on a passive timer like they are now or something more akin to how hounds work for Carnifex?

Malok

I wrote a thing up this last liaison before I deleted it and went with someone else's writings that sounds very similar to what this sounds like. The idea of having different uses for different Sanguis pets, etc. I really like the idea, and I'm glad it sounds like they're expanding upon what I had thought. Personally, I hope I can animate one of the Xorani from Xaanhal and smash people with damage. I'm a simple creature, though.

Really, at this point, Sanguis can't get very much worse, so any sort of revamp will truly be a godsend.

Valdus

Draiman said:

You mentioned 2 new afflictions, but is that all we're getting, or are any more being added from the existing pool of afflictions Aetolia supports?

Will the minions attacks be on a passive timer like they are now or something more akin to how hounds work for Carnifex?

I won't reveal much, because I don't want to make people too excited (or unhappy) with changes that are definitely not set in stone yet.

The two new afflictions do not use existing cure methods, but offer a choice of cure methods that will allow the defender to choose which balances they want to consume in order to remove the afflictions. Both cure options are currently unique (and therefore don't contribute to existing stacking mechanics at all).

Using the new afflictions as well as a couple of other attacks will consume equilibrium off-balance, allowing a frenzy/slash + minion attack combo. This means that Praenomen will wax and wane in terms of affliction delivery, but their new strategies do not revolve around sheer affliction number (like Rituos do), and instead about taking advantage of which afflictions are present. Most of the new Sanguis stuff, however, revolves around the passive ticks of your minion and choosing what effects you want those ticks to have.

The goal is for Sanguis Praenomen to be able to fluidly swap between types of pressure depending on how their opponent responds to their various kill strategies. I won't talk specifics at this point, but the current plans do involve reworking how blood works, and is designed to provide a new real pressure route that is much more useful than feeding someone to death.

Ashmer

@Valdus I know you said you didn't want to make people too excited but this is so many cool unicorns:



I'm so friggin' excited.