Increase Shop Limits

Mael

@Oleis‌ I know it's early in the process, but I think it'd be good to extend the ability to lease shops to city/player owned shops, to allow people to lease out their shop, also for organizations to, for instance, lets say you can lease out the guild owned shop to members of the guild, or when ceasing a shop due to various reasons, you can swap it to a lease, and put it up.

Irruel

I figure the new leasable shops, are a bit of an experiment in more ways than one.
They'll answer that question about how much a shop is actually worth, and whether they can make a profit.

Kerryn

Mael said:

@Oleis‌ I know it's early in the process, but I think it'd be good to extend the ability to lease shops to city/player owned shops, to allow people to lease out their shop, also for organizations to, for instance, lets say you can lease out the guild owned shop to members of the guild, or when ceasing a shop due to various reasons, you can swap it to a lease, and put it up.

This is already possible, but I think some people are reluctant, because if you do it and the person you lease to, doesn't keep taxes up to date, you lose your shop. But if you trust the person, it's easy to keep the shop in your name, hand them keys and ally them. Then they can pretty much run and organize shelves how they please.

I'm guessing there's no actual 'lease' code. It's more... they're opening the shops then at the ten year mark closing and mailing everything back to the previous owner before putting it back on market. I could be wrong though. It just makes the most logical sense as it can be done without a bunch of code that allows them to test this out.

Moirean

I like the idea but the sheer nightmare of resetting shelves and stock and discounts and permissions and potentially being saddled with tons of decaying stock (and the money wasted by that) every few weeks makes me hesitant to even bid.

Kendri

Well, 10 IC years, you're looking at slightly over 4 months IRL. Ideally they would leave your stock until the new lease bidding is done and if you re-win the same shop everything would just stay. But who knows, I'm interested to see how it plays out and perhaps next time I'll be set on Kendri with a trade or two to think about possibly bidding.

Moirean

From the post it sounds like you will be mailed everything. Still you're basically held ransom at that point - people can counter bid you even if they don't really want it to force you to pay a ton to retain the shop.

Gwenith

Pfft, miss negative. lets just wait and see how it turns out before bemoaning plights and reminiscing about inconveniences that may not happen.

Moirean

Umm I think it's a perfectly fine thing to weigh in my mind before I toss out hundreds of thousands of gold (and potentially buy credits with money to get said gold). I'm not keen to waste money on something that is factually going to be a headache - these aren't speculations. Razmael directly said in his post that ownership is temporary. He said owners will receive items mailed to them and the shops will go back up on auction. If you don't buy the shop again you are then sitting with a ton of stock that is now decaying. Players have consistently shown they will bump up prices to gouge others in every artifact auction. How is any of this speculation at all? The only thing that's unclear is how crafting shelves will be handled with the reset but I'm pretty sure those default to clearing out when ownership is changed (or changed to someone not an ally which is essentially the same).

Gwenith

Sorry it has taken so long to respond but I have been at work and wanted a physical keyboard to type it out.

It is perfectly fine but you can be polite about it it. It's been pointed out before that you have the tendency to take a hyper-aggressive tone sometimes when you post. I don't disagree with what you post but you can calm down a bit. I'll rephrase what you just said without as much doom and gloom (and some of my own questions mixed in.)

@Razmael & @Oleis‌ : What will happen to the stock in the sops when they get put back up to auction? Will they be mailed right at the start or will they remain in the shop until the end? Is the mailing of the items an automatic thing or is it manual so if you win it again it all stays there?

In regards to players price gouging is it possible to code in alternatives that runs off the player's current currency score? Currently players must have the money in their hand while placing a bid, is it possible to have it tied to your overall currency in gold so bids can be made taking in the player's bank accounts. In saying that can it be made that if your gold falls beyond your current bid you are warned, then bid retracted because of it? (to stop people saving, bidding big them blowing all their gold on chests and not being able to pay?)

Can you explain how the scroll racks, crafting shelves and basically any shop-related artifacts will be dealt with in regards to change overs? I would like to spend some credits and gold on this but I want to make sure all my doubts and worries are soothed before I invest.

As someone who doesn't won a shop and I am unsure how I would go owning one I find this exciting. I intend to use it as a chance to see what sells, how my designs go and to bring other shop owners to the shop and showing them what I can do in hopes to getting stocking contracts with them, thus freeing the shop at the end of the ten years for some other aspiring shopkeeper. I think it's a super exciting toe-dip into a experimental pool and it's going to be interesting to see what the results of this test is.

Because since you quoted Raz, I will to. It's a test. In tests there is going to be a few bugs found but it's easier to say 'hey, we have an issue, how are we going to work around it' than 'IT'S FUCKED.'

Moirean

Nowhere in my post am I being aggressive or attacking others. I'm saying the concept has inherent issues which seem like logistical nightmares. I think you are confused about how bidding works. For gold auctions you must have the gold on hand to bid. It is then taken out of your inventory and only returned if you are outbid- this is why I am hesitant to splash out especially when the shop seems to have a lot of drawbacks. Its very easy to get burned in a gold auction especially if you are converting credits to gold.

Irruel

These shops might go for such huge amounts, but I doubt it. Unless you're sure you can pull in really large profits, they aren't worth more than the shops taxes in an expensive city.

Moirean

Yeah I am starting to think they may not be worth a ton. Seems like they are going for fairly high so far though. You can check the price via the auction house.

Alissandra

Well, depending on the bidders you'll have some people who think they can make a ton of profit from them. 10 IG years is what the lease is for, right? So a little more than 120 days, 4 months is a decent length of time. But assuming you can pull in 10k profit a year that would be 100k. But then you're at the point that you're doing a ton of work just to break even.

Then you need to factor in the fact that there are 4 other people who are going to be clawing people's eyes out to break even, too. So you're going to be facing even more fierce competition. On top of that, you're competing with legit shops that can buy arties to stock casks and better shelves and whatnot. So you're trying to do more in a limited time with inferior tools. Then, you've got people who think they can make Yk a year, versus your Xk a year. So they're likely to bid around 10Yk, and X > Y, they might bid more just to spite you. Because people don't always act rationally, and if you know you can get away with it why not? Even if you can't, it should be a minimal loss or you'll just have to work harder. It'll be a really interesting experiment either way and I would personally be keeping close tabulations if I had the means to do so just so I could see how it all works out! Alas, I am not omnipotent.