Increase Shop Limits

Sessizlik

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

Since I really don't play at the moment, but I don't to sell my shop, I am willing to let someone use it while I'm away from game.

So if anyone would like to use my shop in Duiran for Selling stuff, (We could even work in a change of name of the shop, I am sure), send me a msg in game. I'll look through applicants and see who is the most fitting in a week.

Kerryn

Moirean said:

You can use templates to bypass stock limits. Stock limits are based on physical items in the store room. This is why I explicitly only design stuff with materials that can be cached. That's part of the design shopkeeping metagame.

One reason I don't use this is and many others I know is, that we spent a lot of money getting crafting boons and toolboxes, which halve the commodity cost while multiplying what we make, thus making it cheaper for us to make things than putting crafting templates in. We've asked that the artifacts work for templates and are told that's not going to happen, so they in essence negate our investment. Which in my opinion is extremely frustrating, to buy an artifact for the expressed purpose of halving production cost, but not being able to utilize it fully for shops. Add in the Delos stock limit is smaller than other places. I think the Refugee camp suffers from this as well. It'd be really nice if ylem perks carried over to -all- your shops not just city and as Erzsebet has suggested, we be able to stack the artifact that increases the limit. Which would ease the burden of having multiple shops to stock everything.

Erzsebet

Agree with what Kerryn said, here--plus I have 2500 credits worth of shiny in my havens to craft things with--I'm not going to limit myself to what is cachable, especially since it's cheaper to halve my commodities.

--Additionally, getting around it in that way limits what shows up on wares. You still only get enough to show up on wares as you have available space. So if you look at WARES you may only see 5 pairs of pants when you have 20 stocked. ALL of the pants only show up if you do WARES PANTS. And not everyone shops like that.

@Irruel if you mean gross profit rather than net profit after taxes, 19300ish. Taxes for all three are 17k. And one of the shops was below profit, made up the difference in profit out of my personal shop.

Irruel

I meant turnover, as in, gross amount not including costs.
Also, what sort of stuff do you sell?

Erzsebet

Then yeah, 19200ish for the year. Sell...most everything? Except food. I've had people compare me to walmart. >.> Forged things, tailored things of all kinds, household items, home fashions, RP props, normal furniture, fancypants hoard-type furniture, jewelcrafts, instruments, candles, woodcrafted things, curatives, overpowered booze. I go out of my way to make sure I have the vast majority of variety on niche stuff, generally. And also the most variety on shiny things. Approaching like 3-5 of each shiny type.

Not sure relevance to topic though.

DO think we need at least three new shops per city though. This shop in 'loch is going for upwards of 4.5 million gold. Is ridiculous.

ETA, know this because I know the people bidding, not because I'm trying to get it, myself.

Irruel

Sorry, I meant without subtracting costs. I'm trying to get an idea of your profit margins.

For example, did you sell 3 pieces of bloodroot priced at 6400g each to get that 19200, or did you sell 19200 pieces of bloodroot at 1gp each? (two silly, extreme examples to clear up confusion).

I'm only asking because some shops are stupidly lucrative, and others obviously not so much. Perhaps the difference is in the business model, or perhaps it is what sort of items you sell.

I think you also said two of them are 'house shops', which probably means you're selling a lot of supplies at near cost - aiming just to break even, as a service to the people that can see the discounted shelves.

Erzsebet

Nah. Ve'kahi get a small discount, but the goal of the shops is to net the house gold, I craft actual members of my house whatever they want, typically.

Have detailed shop info for the last three or so IG years, but I'd have to get it from Eliser, since he tracks it all. The only things I get stupid amounts of profit on are booze, and jewelcrafts, because the former sells between 1500 and 3000 gold a flask, with a much lower cost to make, and the latter is usually just the cost of silver, if that, since all the shinies grow in my haven and I have the goldtouch artifact. So the full 1k-3k I price them at is typically all profit--unless one counts the cost of the havenshinies.

Forgings sell pretty well too, because I'm one of few people who does custom designs for them, but I'm not crazy expensive (or crazy good) like Areka's are, because I don't spend comms trying to make the stats awesome.

Areka

I HEARD MY NAME.

In contrast, in year 437 (a slow year), Iron Hill Armoury: http://pastebin.com/7hBSvaRP

I haven't yet sort out how to factor or track the time spent in forging itself. Restocking is a full 48 hour process from start to finish.

Erzsebet

I only make anywhere close to 50k when I throw up a chalice or Arbre's really hitting the booze.

Areka

Nod, it heavily depends on your wares. I would love to see the info of Moirean's shops for making 10-30k a -day-. magic formula please.

In comparison, when I ran the Auger and Whetstone in Enorian (part of the problem was location initially by the Medina), I normally didn't make enough to cover taxes (food and clothing and small RP things). Things improved after the shop was moved over nearer Four Corners, but even then, it was to a matter of breaking even. There are several eateries in the city (Piri's Meeting P..point? Place? , A Good Knight's Rest, etc).

My sales will also drop as more people get into forging and there are more options/competition. Part of my 50k profit is because I've held the corner of the market for a long time.

Moirean

Profits have fallen by the wayside heavily since I've not bothered to restock stuff at all over the holidays.

Some older numbers. Misc includes a whole range of stuff, like chest items, minipets, armor (before I opened the Carni shop), etc. I have a bad gambling problem and I am often dumping my shop profits into chest purchases, so I consider sales from them fairly valid.

-----------------------------
Shop Revenue Summary
2014/11/08 to 2014/11/14
-----------------------------
Cache : 5,228
Basics : 1,344
Curatives : 11,029
Curative Refills : 2,174
Venoms : 2,017
Venom Refills : 5,182
Rations : 0
Tokens : 0
Enchantments : 5,754
Cooking : 10,897
Booze : 2,964
Tailoring : 3,402
Woodcraft : 848
Furniture : 2,249
Jewelcraft : 0
Misc : 126,885
-----------------------------
Total : 181,919



-----------------------------
Shop Revenue Summary
2014/09/13 to 2014/10/11
-----------------------------
Cache : 88,606
Basics : 22,547
Curatives : 71,850
Curative Refills : 13,727
Venoms : 3,570
Venom Refills : 996
Rations : 2,176
Tokens : 25,870
Enchantments : 29,398
Cooking : 10,295
Booze : 5,366
Tailoring : 17,534
Woodcraft : 5,172
Furniture : 0
Jewelcraft : 3,534
Misc : 273,222
-----------------------------
Total : 576,830

Erzsebet

http://hastebin.com/ebipujeqol.md

Is the info pof Eliser gave me for 435 to 438

Nocturnal Glance is the personal shop. It and The Dragon's Hoard are both in 'reach, with 6k taxes each a year. The Forked Tongue is 'loch, and 5k taxes/year.

Mael

Moirean said:

Profits have fallen by the wayside heavily since I've not bothered to restock stuff at all over the holidays.

Some older numbers. Misc includes a whole range of stuff, like chest items, minipets, armor (before I opened the Carni shop), etc. I have a bad gambling problem and I am often dumping my shop profits into chest purchases, so I consider sales from them fairly valid.

-----------------------------
Shop Revenue Summary
2014/11/08 to 2014/11/14
-----------------------------
Cache : 5,228
Basics : 1,344
Curatives : 11,029
Curative Refills : 2,174
Venoms : 2,017
Venom Refills : 5,182
Rations : 0
Tokens : 0
Enchantments : 5,754
Cooking : 10,897
Booze : 2,964
Tailoring : 3,402
Woodcraft : 848
Furniture : 2,249
Jewelcraft : 0
Misc : 126,885
-----------------------------
Total : 181,919



-----------------------------
Shop Revenue Summary
2014/09/13 to 2014/10/11
-----------------------------
Cache : 88,606
Basics : 22,547
Curatives : 71,850
Curative Refills : 13,727
Venoms : 3,570
Venom Refills : 996
Rations : 2,176
Tokens : 25,870
Enchantments : 29,398
Cooking : 10,295
Booze : 5,366
Tailoring : 17,534
Woodcraft : 5,172
Furniture : 0
Jewelcraft : 3,534
Misc : 273,222
-----------------------------
Total : 576,830

Is this gross or net profit for this period?

Moirean

Neither. It's gross income. Shop taxes are 6k every 2 RL weeks. The rest of the costs are negligible. I specifically design my crafted items to be super cheap to create, and everything else is basically free, with the "cost" coming in time (tokens, curatives, venoms, inks, etc). The only thing with high cost would be enchants, so split that maybe in 1/2.

The weird thing about Aetolia is that shops aren't the only source of income, so I tend to bash and then go buy cheap comms from villages and store that for later, so it essentially *feels* like the cost is free.

I mostly track stuff to see what is selling, so I'm not excessively aware of exact values of production.

Mael

Moirean said:

Neither. It's gross income. Shop taxes are 6k every 2 RL weeks. The rest of the costs are negligible. I specifically design my crafted items to be super cheap to create, and everything else is basically free, with the "cost" coming in time (tokens, curatives, venoms, inks, etc). The only thing with high cost would be enchants, so split that maybe in 1/2.

The weird thing about Aetolia is that shops aren't the only source of income, so I tend to bash and then go buy cheap comms from villages and store that for later, so it essentially *feels* like the cost is free.

I mostly track stuff to see what is selling, so I'm not excessively aware of exact values of production.

Sorry, I meant income!

Yeah, I understand, as you start making more revenue, you track less and less expenses as it's not as important as it once was.

Erzsebet

I -don't- craft for things that are cheap to make. I craft what I want, and deal with however much it costs. I've just paid looooots of credits to have the vast majority of the comms I craft with not have a gold (or time/effort, because lazy) cost. Think I have to straight pay for all of the actual comms except gold, with in-game currency, but I have almost every shiny thing growing in my haven except the stuff I don't -want- to craft with, and the three shinies that we already had under different names that the admin put in after my giant 50-shiny binge thing. Including most of the gems/metals you have to dig up places.

So technical gold cost is negligible, but I'm not likely to ever recoup the cost of the 2500+ cr worth of shiny things that I bought to make that cost negligible. Just looking at the posted links worth of stuff, actual gold cost of making it, is like 3-6X or so what I'm actually charging for it. It's just a fact, that people won't buy a shiny if you price it at cost, much less at profit, assuming you had to actually pay gold cost for the shinies in question. A ring with diamond and ruby, runs 7k minimum, which people won't pay in a shop for that. They'll pay it and then some for commissions, but not in a shop.

Part of why I sell the use of my shinies, too, at cheaper rates than they sell elsewhere. Just don't do it through the shop.

ETA: Also don't know how much the other comms all cost. Tend to buy them in the thousands in quantities enough to more or less fill the shop caches of all three shops and not worry about it.

Aishia

I think I'd probably actually find it like, upsetting to learn I was buying something beneath cost. Unless I had some like "You're my hero plx take these free goods" level discount. IDK how well set up everyone else is but for me money is usually no object in buying random stuff. 7k isn't a big investment esp for how long jewelery lasts.

Ishin

Aishia said:

I think I'd probably actually find it like, upsetting to learn I was buying something beneath cost. Unless I had some like "You're my hero plx take these free goods" level discount. IDK how well set up everyone else is but for me money is usually no object in buying random stuff. 7k isn't a big investment esp for how long jewelery lasts.

Where-as for me, I'm pretty poor gold-wise, so I'm usually like 'OMG HOW MUCH IS IT?! /shops around'. It really just depends on what kind of buyer you are. Normally, when I shop to refill my stuff, I swing by the guild shop first and buy everything I can there. Then go do 'w#dash n#se', and wares there, and buy everything else I possibly can from Moi's place.

She is, by and far, one of -the- cheapest places to shop. If she jacks one or two things up to twice the price or whatever, and gets me on one or two things...it's not really a huge deal, because of how much I perceive myself as saving on the rest. Like she said, though, she crafts -cheap-, and that's probably why her profit margin is so different from you guys.

Case in point: I made a spear for Draiman the other day, to jab at @Slyphe ICly. Cute little spear, but I ended up deciding to use some comms with it that were -really- expensive/hard to find. So whenever he wants his spear design renewed, it's gonna cost him like 20-25k or so, depending. I didn't make it for profit, I made it for lolthisissocool and lolDraiugungitzapdbro. IF I were crafting for a profit, I would make each and every single thing I could out of the very cheapest materials, and I'd embellish it as much as I could get away with, without having to use retardedly expensive comms. Because, let's face it. If you're gonna use an ore in a design that costs 20k, you most likely are NOT making it for a profit.

Same with shop stuff. If all your wares are made out of zomg expensive stuff and you aren't gouging the Christ out of people....you aren't going to make as much profit. S'just how it is.

Teani

Well, as a base, all designs cost 3-500 gold in commodities and crafting fees as a base (at least in tailoring). Pricing things lower than that and you are not charging for the labor/time, which means you have to sell more than one of the item in question for it to pay off. That rules out all commission work, since those are very often one-time things. Then there's additional comms, more time spent on getting the design -just- right according to what is requested, and general effort. I think it's fairly reasonable to charge a bit for the creativity put in there. It honestly makes me a bit upset to see certain items up for sale at a loss in certain shops, but then I realize they probably bulk it anyway, which I rarely do.

I think that's why I'm probably better off with doing just commissions, because I enjoy the exclusiveness of my items (even though I have generic designs too)

Moirean

300-500 gold? Where are you buying your comms from...

Erzsebet

I don't take exclusive commissions, usually.

But I can sell my shinies for less than actual cost, because literally everything but like silver, obsidian, iron, steel, and wood don't cost me gold. They cost me -credits-. Well. Glass/copper/etc too, I have to pay for. Considering another shiny thing or two for my haven for the few things I -don't- have material-wise to play with.

I've played around with my shiny-things prices. I can't price them for much more than I do and have them actually sell on even a semi-regular basis. So I price around 600 gold for like, things that are -just- metal/magi crystal/obsidian/basic comms, 1000 for things with one shiny, 1200 for things with two shiny, 1500 for things with three shiny and between 3k and 5k if I went ridiculous and used like 5-20 shinies. Think the rainbow table I made is priced at 3k, and there are 15 shinies in that one. >.>

Xenia

I don't really craft too much but, in regards to booze, I'd wager that the majority of those are priced below cost. I quickly have begun to realize how much of a pain and how expensive it can be to make some drink with tons of ingredients, much less adding the price of making a bottle/cup/flask.

I personally don't stock my booze (though I could and have the option to) yet, but just something that I figured I'd throw out there. I mean, really, suppose I have a drink that has four-five ingredients, it could easily cost me about 100-150 gold to make. Then suppose I want to make a 50 gold profit to keep it affordable, who really wants to spend 200-250 a pop for 5-10 sips of something?

Moirean

I sell the booze at the H&H for that much. You just have a discount :P

Erzsebet

I sell all my booze for between 150 and 300 gold per -sip-, and it sells for that. It's one of the things I do have a ridiculous profit margin on.

Eleanor

I've always priced my booze at 250 because drinkware! The refills are cheaper, though. People seem fine with it.

Erzsebet

The pricing in my post being just refills. Sell cups and such for less than 100 gold, typically. Between 30-100.

Teani

Moirean said:

300-500 gold? Where are you buying your comms from...

I did write that it included crafting fees as well, no? As in 100 for a design request and then 2-300 for paying the design fee to be able to use it. That's 3-400 just there. And then you have the base comms.

If you all read through what I -actually- wrote, maybe my post makes sense? I was talking about the initial design and the fee, NOT when making things in bulk. I mentioned that commissions HAVE to be more expensive to pay off, since they are usually only one-time things.

Moirean

Right, but we're talking about shop stocking. This means items being sold repeatedly. I've never heard of people factoring the one-time approval fee in before.

Areka

I factor it in to a point - amortization based off of sales trends.

Gwenith

Not yet mentioned : I'm really excited about these shop auctions!