Crafting issues, ideas, and discussion.

Rashar

You win, ladies. My bad.

Edit:

Actually, I will apologize to @eleanor.

I was out of line, and included you in a group that you likely don't belong to. I made an assumption based off a very short, very recent period of time during which I had the crafter channel on.

I have not ever heard of or experienced you making anyone's crafting experience miserable. That was frustration bleeding into my argument. Again, I am sorry.

For the rest, I will just say that owning a shop(s) was only relevant in that those of you who do tend to take crafting far more seriously than the average user who just wants to make some things for their character or friends.

Beyond that? You win, ladies.

My bad.

Lim

The deeper underlying issue seems to be a contestation of equally valid rights (my use of my crafts/enjoyment vs your immersion/enjoyment). There are parties in both camps. Since neither of these rights are fundamental and ought to trumph the other regardless of majority preference, a fair solution would be to make approvals and rejections even at 3 votes each. That way, we get a clearer idea of what the majority sentiment is. 

Lim

Sibatti said:

Lim said:

Oh I just wanted to add that I quite like the babelfish idea of Aetolian being another language and we're just reading it in our own terms (English).

This is the essence of what I was trying to say and it deserves repeating.

Hi Sibatti.

Oh, right. This has me thinking that I would really appreciate having an "OOC note" function on descriptions. "LOOK (item) OOC" or something, where the creator can place hidden OOC notes on the item to help us view it better.

For example, I took the longest time figuring out the kawhe was the Aetolian equivalent of coffee. If I could just do "LOOK KAWHE OOC" and have it say, "Kawhe is a drink that best resembles our real world coffee." that would have helped visualisation a lot.

Same with french braids and katanas and what not. Call it something else, but let creators have the chance to leave an OOC note that has it reference french braids/katana. It'll really help ease understanding of descriptions, and solve this problem of having to describe these real world things in adjectival form. This is not always possible, for example, like when trying to describe scotch, bourbon, etc.

Eleanor

You know what, these threads are usually infinite rehashing of the same complaints and lack of working solutions forever and ever, but Lim's idea there is actually something I'd never considered or seen brought up, and I think it's actually a super neato idea. There's already stuff like examined for liquids that people don't know how to access unless they're aware of the LOOK AT LIQUID IN THING syntax, so adding another semi-hidden desc would be super easy. And it would actually open up more communicative crafting for people with beginning writing skills, because they could write it as best they could but if they were worried that someone might not get their concept they could make the ooc desc "It's a nodachi sword!" and that would allow the shorthand to be optional and not get in the face of anyone who has issues with iconic nouns and stuff like that.

idea support 'ooc desc' field in designs.

Ashmer

On a forging tangent note, and maybe just something that popped through my head when @Lim mentioned kawhe, but it would be cool if we had more weapons that were unique to Aetolian cultures. Like the grooks have a long-handled, barb-tipped sword designed slender for their physique and hands, or the slaver culture has sprung up a series of chains-attached-to-weapons for throwing or distracting. The kelki favor special short spears called krilket, or something like that. (There's a lot you could do with Delve here, too!) You can see this sometimes in Armageddon, where cultures have developed unique weapons in the backstory and have names that you don't see in real life. These could have unique names and contribute to immersion.

On the other side, I'm not sure if there's any official stance on it, but it seems unfair to allow "bastard sword," "flail" or "rapier" (weapons of distinct European origin, written in English and French), when it's not alright to use "katana," "kris knife" or "tomahawk" weapons. My only objection is because it firmly roots the game's context and viewpoint in Western culture as a real-world parallel. I know for a Westerner (like me!) it probably might be kind of jarring, and katanas appear a lot in hyped-up media, but certain weapons do have a distinct origin and can only be referred to (like "bastard sword," "flail," or "rapier") in the name of their origin. Imagine if the only weapons we allowed were weapons of Asian or Middle Eastern origin, and you had to refer to "bastard sword" as "a heavy, wide, straight-bladed katana" or "rapier" as "a thin, basket-hilted jian sword." I guess we have scimitars, at least.

Just my two cents on the forging crafting discussion. I hope I didn't inadvertently offend anybody.

Also, I firmly support @Lim's idea.

Gwenith

I saw one of the guides referencing HELP DICTIONARY the other day and got exicted.. but it's mainly just OOC terms.
This isn't really buying into the arguments but it would be something that would be cool to see.

To take a page from Achaea's book they have a bunch of hidden help files that are like easter-eggs (HELP 42, HELP TEA, HELP POCKETS I think are still there). Make helpfiles for Aetolia like HELP KWAHE, HELP ICEMILK and so on to give a brief description on what they are? Could take suggestion on what should be added to the glossary.

Trager

Eleanor 4 prez.

Teani

It's not just shop owners taking crafting seriously. Just thought I'd put that out there. I don't own a shop.

Gwenith

Just because I've had a bit of Achaean nostaligia today.. at least there's no thongs or kitty ear hats here.

Areka

There are thongs. Thongs, teddies, and negligee

Gwenith

Oh.

Cashmere is less immersion breaking than anal floss to me.

Edit: unless you mean a flip-flop for amputees, then that's rather considerate.

Jensen

that's because nobody is excited to see bloomers, nobody

Trigru

Gwenith said:

Oh.

Cashmere is less immersion breaking than anal floss to me.

Edit: unless you mean a flip-flop for amputees, then that's rather considerate.

No, it's... thongs. Like for your butt. I'm not sure why we have them but they are here to stay.

Amberlea

The things that people find immersion breaking are really stunning to me. Undergarments with a thong style back have existed in some cultures here IRL for a very, very long time, with quite a bit more practical application than showing off your booty. There totally are kitty cat ear headbands, and these have also existed for an extremely long time (millennia) IRL, as dressing up like various creatures has long been recognized as a regular part of many traditional celebrations. From an anthropological standpoint, it'd probably be more surprising for these things to not exist than if they did.

Carving an executive style desk out of solid obsidian, however, requires no tools and takes like 10 seconds...

Areka

The cat headbands and such become jarring because they aren't done in a way that harkens back to those periods of dressing as beasts and so on. Especially not when paired with essentially pleated school girl skirts - it becomes a neko lolita fantasy thing. Same thing with thongs, they aren't thongs in an oldtimey tribal sense, they are thongs in a Frederick's of Hollywood or Victoria's Secret sense.

Amberlea

The way you say that makes it seem like your problem is less with immersion/whether these things would really exist, and more with being offended by the way that some people like to play their characters/a personal moral decency viewpoint.

While technology growth has been stunted on Sapience, a realistic possibility due to the presence of advanced magics that make such innovation unneeded, there is no reason to believe that humans might not wish they were rajamalla and pretend sometimes, or that there is some lack of innate sexuality that would make sexy undies a confusing and strange thing.

Areka

And note, I haven't rejected any of those things or tried to bar them from the game due to my personal preference. Imagine that.

Amberlea

That's not what I was implying you would do. Just a commentary on how some things people say are immersion breaking seem entirely reasonable to me...

Edit: Also with a side-note about how the community generally accepts that mechanics trump RP. Nobody is going to spend a RL month carving that desk so we suspend our disbelief and pretend like it's not a big deal.

Rashar

Clearly we need a rebel crafter's guild that we pay absurd amounts of money to to get things approved.

Amberlea

You haven't paid your protection money this month, Del'Baeth... *rips cashmere sweater design in half*

Trager

But has the banana-hammock been made yet... HRM!

Come, Robin, to the Bat Cave!

Eleanor

Has someone got the description of the Borat mankini? That's unfortunately already a thing.

Lim

Well if we really were going for the whole medieval times thing, people would have horrible teeth, not shave their legs or underarms, have terrible hygiene, die by 35 etc. Are we going for that though? 

Areka

The Borat mankini exists in game. I saw it go through the queue a while ago.

Edit: I think it's on the leotard pattern/bodysuit.

Teani

I made one for Exayne, but I did not call it a mankini. It was made on the thong template. Just goes to show that you can bring out the sense of what an item really looks like without being explicit. Also, those who know me and my designs know I prefer to keep the descriptions short.

Just adding that the RP surrounding the commission of the garment was hilarious and horrifying at the same time.

Alexina

Thongs/sexy underwear seem prevalent in a lot of fantasy settings (games, movies, series, books, and so on and so forth). What bothers me more is stuff like pizza or other items that're very, very modern in how they're portrayed. There might have been glittery ice skating uniforms in ye olden times, but it still evokes that very modern feeling for me which personally ruins my immersion.

I guess to each their own.

Exayne

Mankini got destroyed, Teani still has the design though I think.

Teani

Here is the hideousness:

Appearance:
a fluorescent green thong with shoulder straps
Dropped:
Little more than a heap of jumbled ribbons, a glaring green thong lies here.
Examined:
This thong is of a very peculiar design and made exclusively for male wearers. Not only is
the fabric dyed a bright, fluorescent green, making the garment stand out and draw
attention, but the side straps are also longer than normal. Instead of wrapping snugly
around the hips, they are meant to be worn across the shoulders, creating a v-shape across
chest to cover the nipples. The straps combine at the back again, narrowing as the fabric
reaches the butt-area, making it fit perfectly between the buttocks of the wearer. Though
neatly covered by the glaring green cloth, the crotch has been quite obviously reinforced
by a wooden cup, giving the illusion of a generous package while providing room enough to
stow away private parts of varying sizes.
WearLocation: privates

Ashmer

Alexina

O MY GOD TEANI! BUTT AREA IS NOT MEANT TO BE HYPHENATED! HOW DID THAT EVEN GET APPROV'D!

/rage rant outrage hiss

(that's actually a pretty awesome design)