A perfectly civilized topic about Holywars

Iosyne

This discussion was created from comments split from: Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE.

Damonicus

An order war has been declared..............Ladies and gentlemen start your rage engines....!!!!

Trager

Rage 'o the day: Am totally for some good conflict (Even seriously confusing reasonings behind said conflict...) but I simply wish the holy war had been pushed to the weekend. Some people really have to work/interferes with the numbers both sides would get.

Ingram

WAR IS NOT CONVENIENT!

Rashar

Sort of got the reaction I was looking for when I dropped that message , albeit x10 and from the wrong person / Order. But hey, I guess why have a few fun skirmishes when you can occupy the entire week with it? I'm with @trager though - Normal human beings sometimes have jobs Mon-Fri that reduce their playtime. What kind of -barbarian- declares war on a Monday?!

Now for the real reason I clicked this thread:

People who use ignore to avoid perfectly valid IC situations. Especially situations that -you- caused through one method or another. When you have half your city leadership ignored, chances are you were being corrected for a reason and not just being trolled.

Haven

I rage that I won't be able to participate in this Order war!

Moirean

The message wasn't really the reason for the Holy War. The response I got from you and then Slyphe was really cocky and arrogant and clearly goading for a fight, and darkies have been chomping at the bit for a holy war/some kind of skirmish for a while. I mentioned over OT that Slyphe's order was getting uppity and the response was yay let's war, so we warred. I think it should be a fairly balanced one, as most of Iosyne's order these days is afkish or busy RL.

My rages:

- People assuming things I do are some sort of metagaming or me being a bitch RL. Declaring a holy war IC and then being told OOC "This is why people hate you" is just not fun, and it makes me wonder why I even play this game sometimes. WoW may be far less immersive, but everyone in my guild likes me and that's far more enjoyable to log in to.

- Weird and creepy alts (or maybe multiple people? I dunno) who get all sorts of slimy inquisitive and constantly clingy about how I am, what I'm doing, where I am, can I take them bashing, can I come hang out with them, can they be my "personal assistant" - it's really offputting (not you @toz >_>). I am not sure if it's one person who just keeps making alts or if there is just a procession of mildly stalkerish people I keep dealing with.

- Burning myself by spilling (scalding hot) oil on my forearm and leg. I might end up being MIA, depends how this heals.

Rashar

Let's take a step back there, Moirean. My reply to your accusations was evasive, mildly flippant in one case, and a but indifferent in the whole, 'enemy if you want, you're the one losing money', but it was far from cocky or arrogant. :P Can't speak for Sly Biggie, though.

Just saying, for the sake of accuracy.

And you know my pants on comment was funny. You know it was!

For clarity, I am not the one who told Moirean this is why people hate her. Since that made it seem like it was me.

Sad face for burns.

Moirean

I'm not upset. Sorry if it came across like I was. I think the sides are pretty balanced and lessers have gotten a bit tiring lately with the heavy numbers, so a smaller-scale fight will be fun. I know some of the darkies are excited, at least.

Trager

Oh dear, it is going to be one of those nights. Holy War? No biggie, guerrilla tactics it is. Aberrations attacking the Council at the same time? Priceless.

Rashar

1 hour and 36 minutes.

That's about the exact time it takes for things to be not all that fun anymore when the combatants outnumber you two to one. :P

Draiman

Pls I logged off you guys can go win now.

Trager

Moirean said:

The message wasn't really the reason for the Holy War. The response I got from you and then Slyphe was really cocky and arrogant and clearly goading for a fight, and darkies have been chomping at the bit for a holy war/some kind of skirmish for a while. I mentioned over OT that Slyphe's order was getting uppity and the response was yay let's war, so we warred. I think it should be a fairly balanced one, as most of Iosyne's order these days is afkish or busy RL.My rages:

- People assuming things I do are some sort of metagaming or me being a bitch RL. Declaring a holy war IC and then being told OOC "This is why people hate you" is just not fun, and it makes me wonder why I even play this game sometimes. WoW may be far less immersive, but everyone in my guild likes me and that's far more enjoyable to log in to.

- Weird and creepy alts (or maybe multiple people? I dunno) who get all sorts of slimy inquisitive and constantly clingy about how I am, what I'm doing, where I am, can I take them bashing, can I come hang out with them, can they be my "personal assistant" - it's really offputting (not you @toz >_>). I am not sure if it's one person who just keeps making alts or if there is just a procession of mildly stalkerish people I keep dealing with.

- Burning myself by spilling (scalding hot) oil on my forearm and leg. I might end up being MIA, depends how this heals.

/stare.

Trager

Alas, with the untimely retirement of dear, dear Rashar, I shall take up this noble mantle of posting whenever I have a spare moment (Which is quite often, of late).

To the heart of the matter: I rage at @Iosyne for holding Roderick over my head, even though I fudged up terri-bad and lost the poor bugger. I rage at @Slyphe for threatening Trager with yet another one-legged woman!

Trager

Cheers from that mirror place again. Was fun while it lasted, but now we're back to overwhelming numbers. Not much of a rage, this time, more of a 'love', actually, all things considered.

I love that positions of power give you the perfect excuse to not -need- an excuse in order to flex your proverbial muscles a bit. When I grow up, I want to be just like this!

Riluo

Do not be discouraged mate, you guys were slaughter our group for a long time there.

Phoenecia

My combat system broke, and now doesn't envenom any of my weapons, leaving me unable to fight at all until I can get it fixed (which I won't even have time to do until I get home from work).

It also kind of bugs me (and this was a problem I had with the war system when it existed) that order wars can quickly become an exercise in who can go without sleep the longest. I know most people in Slyphe's order have jobs and had to go to bed, and then go to work the next day. I wake up this morning and there's STILL people from Iosyne's order defiling that were around for a good while the night before. It kind of feels like the system punishes people for not being around for having to sleep or holding a full-time job and not being able to be around 24/7 when stuff happens.

Trager

Now, I realize I may or may not have been frequenting this thread for QUITE a few hours now, but I have a -really- good one now.

Now, the silly, childish, tantrum-induced reasoning for this Holy War aside, (I feel that horse may have already been beaten enough as is) if you have the decency to start a war for little to no reason, at least work towards ending it in a timely fashion. If you have literally zero opposition awake, or willing to go kamikaze run against overwhelming numbers, then at least continue on with the defiling. When there are roughly 5-6 order members awake, and each and every one can be found inside their city for near an hour, it makes you wonder what the purpose behind simply continuing the debacle is even for.

Get out there, y'all! You wanted them shrines, you sure as hell won't get to begrudge me watching you take down each and every one with boring, painstaking slowness.

/cracks whip. Yah!

Moirean

We wanted to give you guys a better chance with more fair odds. Some of your order, like Benedicto, haven't even gotten a chance to participate yet. Also, I think most of us are afk.

Stathan

Moirean said:

We wanted to give you guys a better chance with more fair odds. Some of your order, like Benedicto, haven't even gotten a chance to participate yet.

Speaking as a third party watching. It's due to timing and the fact that at this point a lot of the people who came in late are probably going to "...yeah no" and go back to idling, coding, or just go to work without even bothering.


EDIT:

There's also the fact that most of the people I saw dying last night are typically non-coms but because they were thrown into an Order war were doing their best to help. And 4-7 vs 1 odds for someone who doesn't typically fight are going to discourage any sort of response, even if the Order of PK (Io's order) does slack off a bit and let them see a false ray of hope. At this point I'll agree with Trager and say it would have been better to end it last night while people were sleeping. Beating a dead horse is silly.

Moirean

The numbers have been quite close to equal for most of the war. For a good deal of the night, Slyphe's order had more people and the fights were definitely going their way but they struggled to really capitalize on that.

Trager

I'm curious to where the fair odds conversation came into play, truthfully. It certainly wasn't like that the first 5 hours of the war. I believe we had a good, solid hour where we held the upper hand, so kudos to our members that put up the fight there.

Even Benedicto, who logged in via phone was kind of like, "Uh, wtf? Well this is -stupid-." Kind of mimicking what everyone else was thinking over this entire farce of a conflict. It's tough to try and stay true to your character, when YOU know he should be out facerolling into them over and over again, when in reality I know as a player it only really feeds both exp/ego. Do us all a favor, I suppose, and just end this horrible excuse for RP as quickly as possible, lest it just turn into something griefy for us to deal with for x amount of days.

Stathan

Moirean said:

The numbers have been quite close to equal for most of the war. For a good deal of the night, Slyphe's order had more people and the fights were definitely going their way but they struggled to really capitalize on that.

I'm just going to go ahead and point out for more than one person that I'm sure is cussing at their screen right now, Numbers don't account for too much when you have multiple people that can actually fight 1-3v1 and still come out on top. Numbers may have been even but "Military Might" was not.

Moirean

Myself, Stridor, Riluo, Xenia vs Trager, Valingar, Akimoto, Jami, Kerryn, Rashar, Mariena. A few of the Slyphians went in/out, but it was always 4-5 of them, versus our 4, for several hours. I think that is a very fair matchup. The odds were never, at any point, 4-7 vs 1, except for the times when people (including myself) were caught out alone from their group trying to defile or scout.

Phoenecia

You got the numbers wrong there. I was around for most of the fighting when the war began. There was you, Stridor, Riluo, Draiman, Darken, Tatiana, and Ezalor, who kind of counts as two people with his combat skill level. On our side, most of the fighting was done by Rashar, Trager, Valingar, Segial as more of a supportive unit, and myself with a system that wasn't even envenoming properly. I ended up stopping participation in the PK after about an hour when I realized my system was borked, so...yeah. It was 7vs4 in a lot of instances. Edit: Also, before I went off to bed, I heard there was some cave-camping going on too. Edit2: another note, most of the PKers in Slyphe's order are mid-tier at best with a few exceptions. Iosyne's order has a decent chunk of really good PKers from the dark side. So even if numbers aren't in your favor, you've got freaking @Ezalor. That already makes our job even harder.

Moirean

I don't really want to quibble with who was where when. Your headcount is wrong for the initial fighting, and we weren't operating in one big fighting group, but that's not what I was talking about, anyways. I was referring to later in the night, after you went to bed. For several hours, things were a very balanced back and forth, with Slyphe's order beating us the majority of the time. Regardless, the point still stands - at no point has this been one single person getting rolled by a group of 4-7 people, unless that person was off intentionally on their own, like Kerryn's hit-and-run defiles (they worked well). Both sides have fielded numbers.

Rashar

I don't think anyone is complaining about how it went in general from the get go. You had the upper hand for -hours- with numbers that meant you could literally send two or three to each of us even if we split up. Then we got the upper hand for two or three hours in the fighting ( note, we did not outnumber anyone at any point while I was awake anyway. At one point we had four damn people online and all four fighting. ) So winning a few fights is still not the same as "failing to really capitalize on it". You need numbers or fancy hood arties to defile. Period.




I think the point is, it's like. Ok. Was fun for an entire day, we're obviously not winning. This isn't a lesser that you can extend by a few minutes by not extracting. There is -no- valid excuse for not pursuing it when people are off just because you want to 'give everybody a chance'. No, Moirean. Everybody got to play. Don't ruin people's -week- by dragging it out. Especially the periods where two or three of us are awake and forced to deal with what has become a headache versus a role play conflict ( that isn't even really a well thought out RP conflict hashtag coughsillyreasonstodeclare hashtag wasntinsultingspinesreach hashtag iosyneisntevenspinesreachdivineadvisory hashtag letchakandashmerandtinafighttheirowndight hashtag theyknowthe valueofafewfunskirmishes ).



The problem isn't you. You're playing your character, and you play a psychotic representative of a psychotic Goddess who needs no real reason to do whatever she wants well. The problem is just the system itself, which is what it is because it's better than nothing and all we have.



Let's not turn this silly and just finish it up. It was fun, let's not ruin it by turning it into grief and headaches.

Toz

Why not just throw out a surrender, if you guys are done? Or can you not? I have no clue how it works tbh..

Lim

Maybe you guys should have decided OOC'ly on some end-point before starting it.

Moirean

The thing is, you guys are making it pretty clear that you think the problem is me. I've been bitched out on forums, skype, aim, OOC tells, etc, and people constantly assume the worse. I'm not trying to grief you guys, for example, by - oh my god! - DARING to go off and take a shower and chill out a bit and give you guys some time to regroup (especially when Bene mentioned on AIM that he wanted to play, too, but he's at work).

It's also kinda frustrating that you guys are just throwing your hands in the air and citing "more firepower" - for example, if you think you need a hood to be able to find and stop defiling, then you guys are not using all of your resources available. The only person in our order with a hood is Mazzion (and Ilyon but he didn't show up until like an hour ago), yet somehow I managed to always find Kerryn defiling.

Phoenecia

People don't want to fight an order war for dumb, insignificant reasons, which is what most people seem to see it as.