Bloodborn \ Liaisons

Draiman

Also I still don't see what's glass cannony about it. Good audit, no draw backs, encouraged to get high dex for more dodge and lowering other peoples dodge rate in the process, insane aff out put, can sustain in room if you really wanted too, can leave any room unless it's a one room exit with a locked door, etc. Syssin is prob the most broken class in the game. People want to waste time with weird and stupid hypno chains though, it's confusing.

Haven

Syssin are stronk. Dat dissipate and void.

Daskalos

Syssin don't have the breadth of afflictions available to them that BB do, which is why they are much more readily handled. They're, effectively, speed knights (who are getting damage this round, so really, speed knights) with an older kill route and a few unique afflictions. The most dangerous thing about a syssin is scytherus.

Areka

Professor Snape probably would be a Syssin, yes.

Can a Liaison explain why a non-armoured class has a competitive, if not higher, physical audit than a fullplate/most heavily armoured class? I know it's been explained before but I still don't really understand it or why we even have armour instead of it being a purely cosmetic thing and audits being put entirely into classes in such a case. 

Draiman

Does not change that they are probably the best class in the game.

I would ask if you wanted to spar but Angel Care and Bliss are fucking stupid.

And Syssin only need a few afflictions. Clumsiness, Paralysis, Asthma/Limpveins, Impatience, Confusion, Slickness, Anorexia, Voyria, Scytherus. I use darkshade and vomiting in hopes of lulz kills but Voyria usually wins out first.

Jensen

Here's who I usually see rocking syssin as their primary:

Guilded Syssin with no multiclass

Nonguilded Syssin with no multiclass

Guilds that desperately need a revamp

Guilds that just got a revamp and people still havent figured them out yet.

And Serrice

Seir

Draiman said:

Your guess is wrong. The only reason I don't main Syssin is because of the obscene amount of commands you have to send in a world where stupidity reigns supreme. After stupidity is nerfed I will main Syssin and prob kill everyone.

Who are you, exactly?

You were never a particularly prominent fighter when I was around.

The only prominent Syssin that I know of that are posting in this thread are Serrice and Ishin.

Jensen

Ishin doesn't rock Syssin very much though that might be changing as he gets back into full swing.  I don't even use it anymore.

Point is this, if the class is super OP then why are so few people using it?  Both sides can fight with it if they wanted but hardly any do.  Must be Aetolia players decided to be responsible and refrain from using OP classes/skills

Seir

Areka said:

Professor Snape probably would be a Syssin, yes.

Can a Liaison explain why a non-armoured class has a competitive, if not higher, physical audit than a fullplate/most heavily armoured class? I know it's been explained before but I still don't really understand it or why we even have armour instead of it being a purely cosmetic thing and audits being put entirely into classes in such a case. 

I asked the same question. Was given the reason that it didn't matter that a completely unarmored class had a higher physical audit than someone wearing a lot of it.

Ezalor

@Jensen if you go back in some combat thread this EXACT argument was being made about Bloodborn. All the "if this class is so good then why doesn't anyone but Ilyon use it?" Well, we know how that went. It's a stupid argument. No one was playing post-nerfed Templar either until Kaeus and I rocked it.

As far as the other point, Templars do have higher audit than Bloodborn as well as no sip malus. But I don't really feel like getting trolled by a noncom and someone who doesn't even play the game, so you guys can figure it out yourselves.

Draiman

Seir said:

Draiman said:

Your guess is wrong. The only reason I don't main Syssin is because of the obscene amount of commands you have to send in a world where stupidity reigns supreme. After stupidity is nerfed I will main Syssin and prob kill everyone.

Who are you, exactly?

You were never a particularly prominent fighter when I was around.

The only prominent Syssin that I know of that are posting in this thread are Serrice and Ishin.

And who are you? You were never prominent period.

Lin

If we continue posting personal attacks in lieu of discussion, this thread will not last much longer.

Seir

You should probably just close it anyway. There's nothing productive to come out of it, honestly. People are arguing the same things that have been argued countless times over and the state of Aetolia's PvP balance remains as it always has been. 

Ishin

The ACTUAL reason that you guys don't see me in Syssin these days is.....

[spoiler]
Because I have to use mudlet these days and I really unicornsing HATE mudlet. I used zmud/cmud for -years- and I got used to it. My Syssin and Lycan AI are both in cmud, and I have a rudimentary one in mudlet that my boy Nalor helped me setup(much love man), which is why you always see me rocking Lycan these days. I actually -really- miss Syssin pvp, and I've been aching to get back into it, but tbh I'm so bad with mudlet that I just CANNOT seem to get my script/TW to work right and engage my Syssin stuff.
[/spoiler]

And that's really just the plain and simple of it.

Haven

>> I don't use Syssin so much because I don't wanna be guildless again!

Riluo

@Ishin

I have the same issue with TW AI for syssin so I do not play syssin currently either. We all need to setup a basic syssin script "El mega basic" to get people on the right track.

*dstabs

*does a slight on bal and a basic hypno chain.

Ishin

The actual problem I have is that I don't seem to be able to disengage my lycan AI and get the Syssin one to engage. Even if I completely turn all my lycan stuff to deactivated, it still tries to use the lycanthropy stuff. It's really frustrating. I've been working on trying to iron out some of the stuff in my cmud AIs to latch them onto the cmud stuff someone gave me(which I definitely plan on using if I can get things working), as well as ironing out a templar AI to use on Resi.

I didn't used to AI back in the day, and when Balzic and I really started getting good with Syssin is when he and I started using the same one. Tyrak not long after. My boy Balzic and I used to sit and have a crapload of long theory discussions on what to use and when. We even got into some fights about it, but that was more that our methods of fighting were simply different. Same with Tyrak(though no fighting), he had his own way too. It may even be something as simple as one affliction being in a different place in the venom order, or a few afflictions being in different spots in the hypno chain. Those things even changed depending on what class we were fighting/what mode we were using.

Syssin is probably half again as bad as you guys are crying about Bloodborn being, and you can take that as being straight from the horse's mouth. How many of you could I NOT beat as Syssin? I beat some of you that Tyrak couldn't beat. That Balzic couldn't beat. And they beat some people I couldn't beat. How did you guys beat me? Usually because my curing was slightly behind in updates, or because my parry was the old crap kind. You beat me because MY curing sucks. If I had some curing like Ezalor's sick nasty stuff?

You can damn well believe there'd be a thread or two about Syssin being OP. And things would start happening like people getting hepafarin made so any joker can use it and changing how it was. It was like that specifically FOR Syssin, and it was the WAY it was because it was FOR Syssin. Rest of you scrubs can do your own research and come up off my sweet Syssin stuff. Next thing you know Sentinels will be wanting to freakin' sleight void on people.

Also any of the other homogenization crap that's happened to my class. Come up off it. I don't want to be Syssin Knights, i want to be freakin' Syssin sneaky killers affing you up from 'cross the street because you can't look away due to my super uber Syssin Charm and my eq-crown.


You guys make me lol, Seir especially, complaining about BB. Like, what? They do a little damage? They lock you up and kill you?

I HUMILIATE people. I've killed people(decent combatants on up) with THIRTY PLUS AFFLICTIONS ON THEM AT ONCE. Given, that was -before- the combat slowdown, but quite frankly, I don't particularly see any reason why I couldn't do the same. I think the highest I ever had was thirty four or so..not to mention vivisecting people as Infernal speed-knight back before that guild got dissolved. Christ I miss those guys.

Areka

@Ezalor - I wasn't trying to troll anyone . It came up in this discussion and so I want to better understand. The roleplay side of me is really annoyed with it and I fully own that the mechanic side is out of my depth, so I asked, so I could try to understand and see if I can't come up with any ideas for mitigating the RP/Mechanic divide in some way. 

Guess I've learned my lesson. 

Ezalor

I've offered many times to explain how stuff works for you. You refuse and then inevitably complain about not understanding in some new thread. So I don't really think it's worth the effort now. But here I go anyways: Templar audit is higher than Bloodborn and they don't suffer from a L1 sip malus like Bloodborn do. And even if it were the other way around, classes aren't balanced by what is more of a flavour mechanic (ie the type of armour they get to wear). It may have been in the past but this is why you see classes like Monks and Lycans so sorely in need of audit buffs. Nothing about those classes necessitates them being squishy beyond the flavour of what armour they get to wear.

Daskalos

I think her point was that her audit was roughly the same as a syssin, and the perception by many is that 'syssin are squishy and Templars are not'. I don't think she was comparing it to BB at all bro, chill.

Ezalor

Templar audit is higher than Syssin as well, but Syssin are not low by any means. Plus Syssin get weaving which more than makes up for whatever audit they're "missing." Which they aren't at all, I pull in 52/52 without cutting/blunt enhancements. The "disparity" likely comes from the fact that Syssin require an arti shield to reach their high audit while Templars don't need anything at all.

And no, she specifically referenced non-armour class which is the same thing our Aetolia expert Seir brought up in another thread long ago. It just feels futile trying to explain these things when they obviously don't sink in. You had people from both sides of the game unanimously arguing against Seir the last time he brought this up, but obviously it's made no impression on him. We all know he was a super leet combatant when he played and his time away has only made him wiser. Draiman who?

Areka

Kind of - largest part with Syssin and the tankability question, but from the c/p's I've seen on forums, BB audit's pretty comparable and they don't wear armour at all (which makes me sadface as I look at my impotent fullplate and Garenness). 

You don't have to be a jerk about it though, there really isn't a need and it is unprofessional coming from a Liaison. Yes, you've offered to explain, and I don't 'refuse', just simply haven't gotten around to cornering you for a 1 on 1. Most of my time is spent multitasking and there are other things I would rather do than delve into the headache that is combat with what time I have to actually focus on the game. I haven't complained about this either other than 'wah but I want to be a Knight not Boromir'. 

The aggression isn't necessary or helpful.

Thus, all of that is why I asked, and stated IN THAT POST if there were altnerative ways to handle armour so it could become MORE flavourful instead of the inbetween it is now. 

Daskalos

Areka said:

Haven said:

Draiman said:

I can't help but lol when anyone says Syssin are squishy.

I can't get the 50/50 audit other people are getting with their artifacts and stuff. On average, as a Syssin, my audit looks like 41/40 without a blessing.

http://pastehtml.com/view/e16kjd97a.html

Blessing will probably bump me up 5 points, and I imagine artifact shield will boost it up another 3 or so. And I guess with amulets it'll be another 2-5 points.

Hmm...oh the woes of being rogue! But yeah, 41/40 looks to be about average not accounting ylem stuff.

Edit: When I remove shield and dual wield whip/dirk the audit drops to 32/32. And I think that's where the misconception comes from. I cannot say I entirely blame peeps who run without a shield because as is, Syssin combat is pretty unwieldy with stupidity and what not. Pretty headachey managing weapon swapping just to get the ability to raze rebounding.

That's my Templar audit, without a shield. 43/43 (with blessing, miasma, 85/85 fullplate, protection blessing (not aura, just can't prioritize protection aura over healing or purity often), epicurus statue, 45/45 if I use a blue orb/shell).

This is what she was referring to, Eza.

Ishin

+ Ishin Cardinalis -------------------------------------------------------+
| Strength     : 17(+2)  Dexterity    : 13      Timeout   : 60 minutes    |
| Intelligence : 11      Constitution : 14(+2)  Statpack  : Muscular      |

)wp buckler
Cutting protection  : 34%
Blunt protection: 34%

See HELP ARMOUR for an explanation of how armour works.
A buckler has no venoms or magical effects on it.
[5156(106%)|3820(92%)|0|105%|105%|73.1%] [HMcsdb eb]wp scale
Cutting protection  : 43%
Blunt protection: 42%

See HELP ARMOUR for an explanation of how armour works.
A suit of scale mail has no venoms or magical effects on it.

This is without weaving. WITH buckler.


[spoiler]
[code]
********************************[ Resistances ]********************************
Type           Defences     Miniskills   Armour       A. Total    
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cutting        25%          0%           56%          46%
Blunt          25%          0%           56%          46%
Magic          25%          24%          0%           43%
Fire           35%          24%          0%           51%
Cold           25%          24%          0%           43%
Electric       15%          24%          0%           36%
Poison         15%          24%          0%           36%
Psychic        5%           24%          0%           28%
Asphyxiation   5%           24%          0%           28%
*******************************************************************************
*********************************[ Avoidance ]*********************************
Type           PVP          PVE         
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dodge Chance   11%          14%
Divert Chance  30%          30%
Divert Block   24%          24%
*******************************************************************************
[/code]
[/spoiler]

This is without buckler, without weaving.

[spoiler]
[code]
********************************[ Resistances ]********************************
Type           Defences     Miniskills   Armour       A. Total    
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cutting        25%          0%           34%          38%
Blunt          25%          0%           34%          38%
Magic          25%          24%          0%           43%
Fire           35%          24%          0%           51%
Cold           25%          24%          0%           43%
Electric       15%          24%          0%           36%
Poison         15%          24%          0%           36%
Psychic        5%           24%          0%           28%
Asphyxiation   5%           24%          0%           28%
*******************************************************************************
[/code]
[/spoiler]

Now, WITH weaving...it goes up to this at the bottom there with the avoidance bit:

[spoiler]
[code]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dodge Chance   18%          20%
Divert Chance  30%          30%
Divert Block   24%          24%
*******************************************************************************
[/code]
[/spoiler]

Reincarnated into Agile(16 dex) Idreth and...

[spoiler]
[code]
*********************************[ Avoidance ]*********************************
Type           PVP          PVE         
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dodge Chance   20%          22%
Divert Chance  33%          33%
Divert Block   9%           9%
*******************************************************************************
[/code]
[/spoiler]

Haven

The tempers in this thread... People need a vacation and just chill, I think.

Ishin

...though somehow I've come home and am missing 10% from defenses.

********************************[ Resistances ]********************************
Type           Defences     Miniskills   Armour       A. Total    
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cutting        15%          0%           56%          39%
Blunt          15%          0%           56%          39%
Magic          25%          24%          0%           43%

...not sure what I'm missing -_-

Haven

@Ishin: Blessing?

********************************[ Resistances ]********************************

Type           Defences     Miniskills   Armour       A. Total     

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cutting        30%          0%           52%          48%

Blunt          30%          0%           51%          47%

Magic          40%          24%          0%           53%

audit blunt

The following abilities and items are protecting you from Blunt damage:

Subterfuge Warding: 10%

Energy Shell: 5%

Miasma: 5%

Divine Favor: 10%

Wielded Shield: 22%

Armor: 29%

[100] [92] E98 W100 B100 S100 <<XP 82%>> [csdb@ eb] 13:7.501 -

audit cutting

The following abilities and items are protecting you from Cutting damage:

Subterfuge Warding: 10%

Energy Shell: 5%

Miasma: 5%

Divine Favor: 10%

Wielded Shield: 22%

Armor: 30%

Ishin

Must be, @Haven. Mine looks more or less the same as yours.

The following abilities and items are protecting you from Blunt damage:
Subterfuge Warding: 10%
Safeguard: 5%
Wielded Shield: 22%
Armor: 28%
Protection Artifact: 6%

The following abilities and items are protecting you from Cutting damage:
Subterfuge Warding: 10%
Safeguard: 5%
Wielded Shield: 22%
Armor: 28%
Protection Artifact: 6%

Not sure why prot arti is counting though o.o

Draiman

It counts regardless of whether you wear armor or not, the protection is just halved if you are wearing armor.

Toz

So I have a request. We've seen a log of someone getting wrecked by BB. How about a log of a BB getting wrecked by any non-vamp class? There's so much pointless distraction/baseless accusations flying around, and nobody but me has bothered to calculate any numbers that I've seen (though @Draiman started to help some last night!).