Bloodborn \ Liaisons

Draiman

I can't help but lol when anyone says Syssin are squishy.

Haven

Draiman said:

I can't help but lol when anyone says Syssin are squishy.

I can't get the 50/50 audit other people are getting with their artifacts and stuff. On average, as a Syssin, my audit looks like 41/40 without a blessing.

http://pastehtml.com/view/e16kjd97a.html

Blessing will probably bump me up 5 points, and I imagine artifact shield will boost it up another 3 or so. And I guess with amulets it'll be another 2-5 points.

Hmm...oh the woes of being rogue! But yeah, 41/40 looks to be about average not accounting ylem stuff.

Edit: When I remove shield and dual wield whip/dirk the audit drops to 32/32. And I think that's where the misconception comes from. I cannot say I entirely blame peeps who run without a shield because as is, Syssin combat is pretty unwieldy with stupidity and what not. Pretty headachey managing weapon swapping just to get the ability to raze rebounding.

Draiman

Yeah well do what I do and don't fight anyone who uses stupidity. (Don't fight)

Also, doesn't change the fact that they are in fact not squishy. You can wield a shield and deal with it, or don't wield one and then cry about dying to damage. Your call. Stupidity is getting nerfed, so it won't be that bad forever. Tracking what you're wielding is so effing hard thanks to gmcp, too. Like, a complete nightmare (sarcasm).

Areka

Haven said:

Draiman said:

I can't help but lol when anyone says Syssin are squishy.

I can't get the 50/50 audit other people are getting with their artifacts and stuff. On average, as a Syssin, my audit looks like 41/40 without a blessing.

http://pastehtml.com/view/e16kjd97a.html

Blessing will probably bump me up 5 points, and I imagine artifact shield will boost it up another 3 or so. And I guess with amulets it'll be another 2-5 points.

Hmm...oh the woes of being rogue! But yeah, 41/40 looks to be about average not accounting ylem stuff.

Edit: When I remove shield and dual wield whip/dirk the audit drops to 32/32. And I think that's where the misconception comes from. I cannot say I entirely blame peeps who run without a shield because as is, Syssin combat is pretty unwieldy with stupidity and what not. Pretty headachey managing weapon swapping just to get the ability to raze rebounding.

That's my Templar audit, without a shield. 43/43 (with blessing, miasma, 85/85 fullplate, protection blessing (not aura, just can't prioritize protection aura over healing or purity often), epicurus statue, 45/45 if I use a blue orb/shell).

Moirean

Draiman said:

Yeah well do what I do and don't fight anyone who uses stupidity. (Don't fight)

Also, doesn't change the fact that they are in fact not squishy. You can wield a shield and deal with it, or don't wield one and then cry about dying to damage. Your call. Stupidity is getting nerfed, so it won't be that bad forever. Tracking what you're wielding is so effing hard thanks to gmcp, too. Like, a complete nightmare (sarcasm).

It isn't that great actually, given that wielded items are split into multiple words and don't match their ii names.

Draiman

There's actually a script I picked apart and altered for my own purposes in the Tech section for Mudlet.


http://forums.aetolia.com/discussion/312/mudlet-help-desk/p3

Edit: You have to scroll down a bit. It's a post by Nalor.

Irruel

It is, however, easy to track wielded items with TRIGGERS instead of GMCP.

I've been using the same wield tracking essentially since zmud 5.55 days - 14 years ago. I updated it slightly when I switched to mudlet, and again for weaponbelts with a balance cost on wielding shields, but it is simple, reliable and I just don't get why people would bother with upgrading to gmcp. Don't break what isn't fixed

(I do get why people trying to share scripts might do it, but that is another beast entirely.)

As for stupidity:
if affs.stupidity then
secure whip;secure whip;secure whip;secure whip
wield dirk;wield dirk;wield dirk;wield dirk

Yes, there is a slight bit of time lost spamming commands and then gagging the output, but I would argue that the extra audit is worth it.

Not to mention that all of that lost time is going to disappear with the new balance queuing.

Ishin

What's a balance queue?

Daskalos

Survival - Queueing

This will let you queue a command to your balance or equilibrium, and
that command will automatically fire whenever you next recover balance or
equilibrium. Only one command may be queued to each type at a time.

Usage:
QUEUE BAL <command> - Adds a command to your balance queue.
QUEUE EQ <command> - Adds a command to your equilibrium queue.

QUEUE BAL and QUEUE EQ by themselves will clear your queue.

Report #1644
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by: Xavin (for Daskalos)          Status      : Approved
Skillset    : Survival                      Skillname   : Queueing
Creation Date:  2013/12/29 02:38:14
Submitted Date: 2013/12/29 02:44:45
[ ]Archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem:
Queueing is a nice addition to the game, however, because it is limited to only one command, a good number of the classes in the game cannot use the ability as their combat requires multiple commands - this is fixed with some classes via the COMBO command, however, some classes rely on things that aren't COMBO's per se, such as Luminaries using Angel Battle\Shield Attack\Chasten, or Templars wanting to change our auras, et cetera.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution #1:
Introduce command stackable queuing, something like QUEUE BAL SECURE SWORD#WIELD WARHAMMER using a random character as a separator (but avoid using ;, as it's cMUD's command separator, and whatever the command sep is for Mudlet and MUSHclient)
Solution #2:
Solution #3:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Decision:
2014/01/06 21:37:41
Solution 1.

Ishin

Oh cool. That'll need some tweaking as far as working it in with offenses, but...still neato.

Nalor

One of the main issues with BB is the ability to be able to bypass rebounding from the getgo witout the person even in the room!

Granted its 300 credits or something for the phial, (unless you already have the persons blood) but the ritual should be changed to be a 1 in 10 chance of it missing. otherwise when the 'little' ritual is active its 100% chance of the aff hitting you even if you rebounding.. which NO OTHER class in the game so every round its 3 to 4 affs hitting you (anxiety being the 4th) ...

Cant remember the ritual name to bypass rebounding .. thats the main issue with bb as prae is easy to combat, just use rebounding and it slows them down

-- Cant believe no one has even mentioned that in this post @Ezalor and @Daskalos

Draiman

You just have to paint the scythe.

Also, the reason they bypass rebounding is because:

With a sweeping slash of a gruesome crescent scythe, you wound Toz.
Balance Used: 3.84 seconds


Unarti'd. If arti speed is a problem then nerf the artifact. But if you do that then you cripple the class, as sticking impatience is -key- and it is next to impossible to stick afflictions at 3.84 seconds.  Ezalor is trolling people right now in fights because they're bad, not because BB is OP. Hidden recklessness and poor curing on their end is what's winning most of these fights. Pro-Tip: Even if you're a physical class that magic_impaired doesn't effect, it still cures above asthma in the cure order, and ignoring it for something like impatience or stupidity is going to get you locked every time.

Anxieities are so OP tho Draiman wah wah wah.

Yeah, well, if I dwhisper both affs based on the anxieity given and even switch the slash to something in the same aff tree, if you can focus, you will still cure all of them quickly enough to where I can't get anything to stick unless impatience is on you. Once Impatience is on you then yes, BB can start snowballing the afflictions. That's kind of the point though. The class looks momentum based when you look at the skills that seem the strongest (mindsurge, mindburrow, etc). It's not like it takes 5 rounds and then you instantly die either (unless stupidity effs you up).

Bloodmeld is definitely OP with artifact speeds, but without I think it's the only way unartifacted BB can keep any type of affliction pressure, and vs. limb based  classes it is literally a waste a time to put up because it doesn't transfer salve afflictions. Bloodmeld is also really difficult to put up without a 300 credit investment for the phial. So artifacted players will be brought in line with this nerf while unartifacted players are once again boned. The ritual "buffs" aren't really buffs, they're QoL changes. How would you like it if half of your defenses wore off after 5 minutes?

Also, because I missed it the first time @Daskalos, Bliss has been the bane of my existence for the last 3 months. Yes, people use it. It needs nerfed, or at the very least needs to show me when they effing cure asthma with it.

Pacifism is being removed, stupidity nerfed, berserk possibly nerfed according to Ilyon I think?, paralysis nerfed, epilepsy is receiving a sideways nerf I guess with dodge upset buff, bloodmeld is being toned down by 3 seconds, and unartifacted players will rely on cheap tricks with hidden whispers or trying a way weaker version of the Prae bash route with vomiting. Hope everyone is effing happy, the big bad vampires are taking it up the tail pipe because people who spent money on the game and who are probably legitimately better than 90% of Aetolia are good with a class (talking about Ez and Ash).

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.

Nalor

Your wrong here, You've been corrected! ...@Draiman :P (joke)

At a guess herb/slice balance is 2 seconds..

Dealing 4 (with anixety ticking) herb/slice afflictions in 3.84 you're only ever going to cure 2.. yes yes focus/tree/recon but after 1 round you'll be of tree balance for 'rough guess' 8 seconds.. endgme for about the same and what focs say for 5 seconds.. giving the BB a chance to stick 3 affs, minus 1 for herb curing and only way to hinder is paralyse.. oh wait, noo as thats getting nerfed so people can still HIT

Not trying trying to be  a twat as I have a BB but all in all BB are the only class in the game which bypasses rebounding but it uses a weapon ... maybe if said weapon had a CHANCE not saying a huge one but a small one to not go through rebounding nor give the bb the aff would make getting afflicted much easier as if you run through the numbers bb aff output is kind of insane.. since the hindering of one is being removed :P

300 mana and health drain from temp/seduction, 1000 health from scythe, bleeding and focus/endgame mana drain... and Ive yet to mention rituals or artifacts ....

Again not beating at the class but since the new statpacks the class has had a hidden buff as before it was manageable....

Draiman

Anxieties don't tick every round, they tick at 7 seconds. The mana/health drain from temptation/seduction is 5% of your max, and mind surge dwhisper is 6.5% A sip without impatience will cover that, moss will handle focus and part of renew and your moon tat will handle the rest. If you're taking 1k from a scythe then either A.) Your audit sucks or B.) They have artifacts. I'm all for nerfing ARTIFACTED PK, but not baseline unartifacted PK. That's bullshit to say someone needs to have an artifact to be able to PK reliably.

You're also not calculating your own offense into those times. Add in your own para/stupidity spam, lethargy for Luminaries, confusion from other Prae/BB or Syssin or nicely timed broken arm from a tera/lycan, hidden confusion from tarot/tweak, etc etc, epilepsy, stuns from hallucinations, one shield, etc etc, and that rate falls off drastically.

Ishin

I have to agree with Draiman on this bit, more or less. If you want to nerf something, nerf artifacted PK. I cried like a baby when they took away my Celestine dirk(I still cry sometimes), but really, I think it was for the best in the long run. It makes balancing the class a whole elephantload easier. Now, the only real difference in Syssin arti-PK is whether or not you have charm/crown. If you do, your hypno chains will come more often and last longer, which lets us keep up the pressure for longer and such.

Ideally, all the classes will be viable(RIP Carni/Indo) at a base level, and then artifacts will only augment that viability(with equally viable defensive augmentations). That's the difference of pay for perks, instead of paying to win.

Nalor

Im not saying to nerf anything, Im saying the whole rebounding ritual thing might need looking into as all in all to me, thats the main issue.. like had it have a certain amount of uses before it 'rubs off' and you have to reput it up.. grant will be a twat but done right might not even notice..  oor have it be timered ..

The anixety thing I know its why I kept saying 3/4 affs.. as every other attack it hits, like angel battle/spiritwrack,

Haven

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason that Syssin don't get regular razeslash and must swap weapons to strip rebounding/shield?

Areka

o.o Flay? 

Or is this switching from a shield?

./ignore me

Draiman

For maximum physical audit, a Syssin needs to wield a shield in one hand and a weapon in the other. Their primary attack is dstab, which requires a dirk. In order to flay (strips rebounding) they need to switch to a whip. They can bypass the weapon swap and wield a whip in one hand and a dirk in the other at the trade off of convenience for audit. (Use the shield, weapon swap, it's worth it I promise)

Jensen

Draiman said:

For maximum physical audit, a Syssin needs to wield a shield in one hand and a weapon in the other. Their primary attack is dstab, which requires a dirk. In order to flay (strips rebounding) they need to switch to a whip. They can bypass the weapon swap and wield a whip in one hand and a dirk in the other at the trade off of convenience for audit. (Use the shield, weapon swap, it's worth it I promise)

I went for the convenience route when I was mainly pking with syssin.  Just curious if having the shield messes with trying to glock somebody and if so how badly.

Draiman

I haven't used glock because of how effing broken it is right now, so I wouldn't know. I imagine it wouldn't mess with you at all, though? So long as you make sure you're wielding your whip before you try to glock and then don't do something silly like secure it mid lock.

Seir

So the response to a class that has:

• The ability to truelock, something very few classes have.
• Outstanding utility in the form of Fade and Purify Blood.
• A potent offense that goes through prismatic barrier (the only one at that) and shield, while usuable prone.
• One of the highest defensive audits in the game.
• An offense that causes high health and mana damage, plus bleeding. Both leading to viable kill avenues.
• Virtually nothing in the way of class weakness.

And I'm trying to understand... the solution to all of this is to change Paralysis and Stupidity? Something that doesn't even fix the issue, but creates problems for nearly every other class that rely on those afflictions to secure kills?

Uh. Okay.

Lin

Seir, you don't play dude.

Draiman

Seir said:

So the response to a class that has:

• The ability to truelock, something very few classes have.
• If you get truelocked by a BB you deserve it.
  
• Outstanding utility in the form of Fade and Purify Blood.
• Fade bypasses block, that's about it. Purify is on a cool down. Unlike many other class skills that cure 2 afflictions at once @FEICHIN.
  
• A potent offense that goes through prismatic barrier (the only one at that) and shield, while usuable prone.
• I guess potent depends on what you consider potent. And if they're artifacted. Also, the potent afflictions are being nerfed. Did you read anything in this thread?
  
• One of the highest defensive audits in the game.
• My God I'm so tired of hearing this one. My Syssin audit is better than Bloodborn for Christs sake.
  
• An offense that causes high health and mana damage, plus bleeding. Both leading to viable kill avenues.
• Better nerf Luminaries too
  
• Virtually nothing in the way of class weakness.
• Due to the nature of their attacks, lethargy/poison/curse/confusion is more dangerous to them and Praenomen than any other class in the game.
  

And I'm trying to understand... the solution to all of this is to change Paralysis and Stupidity? Something that doesn't even fix the issue, but creates problems for nearly every other class that rely on those afflictions to secure kills?

Uh. Okay.

I take back the first statement. I guess that's possible if RNG bones you and blood meld transfers asthma. If that's not the case though then yeah you deserved it.

Edit 2: Will you people pull your heads out and see that whispering while prone is just as bad if not worse as it is good. You are now prone. For close to three and a half seconds. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Ilyon

Seir said:

And I'm trying to understand... the solution to all of this is to change Paralysis and Stupidity?

The upcoming change to paralysis and stupidity is not because of Bloodborn.

Riluo

Honestly this thread/conversation is dead. The liaison changes are coming and there are other "unnamed" classes that stink of op skills. So lets see the outcome of the changes before the rant turns hostile.

Seir

Lin said:

Seir, you don't play dude.

It doesn't even matter. Three years of fighting in a game doesn't change because of three or four changes that occur over a few months. 

But I'm sure Aetolia is somehow magically balanced despite being gone for a few months.

Though if I had to take a guess, I'd wager it's still dominated by the same classes: Templar, Bloodborn, Syssin.  If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

Jensen

while we're all derailing, how many people actually main pk as Syssin?  Lots of people have the class, lots of people play the class, but how many prefer to fight with it?  It keeps getting mentioned and I hardly see many people use it for pk.

Seir

Jensen said:

while we're all derailing, how many people actually main pk as Syssin?  Lots of people have the class, lots of people play the class, but how many prefer to fight with it?  It keeps getting mentioned and I hardly see many people use it for pk.

If I had to take a guess, it's likely because it's still the textbook definition of a glass cannon. With the current meta surrounding Templars and vamps, both of which can damage you down before you can pull your affs off, you'll die or be forced to run so you'll lose your momentum.

Draiman

Your guess is wrong. The only reason I don't main Syssin is because of the obscene amount of commands you have to send in a world where stupidity reigns supreme. After stupidity is nerfed I will main Syssin and prob kill everyone.