The Dominion, a not very sanguine experience

13

Comments

  • KodazaKodaza Los Angeles
    Bulrok said:

    @Zethrie

    I'm a little confused on the tea, but you removing yourself at the same time Zima did, Zima's attachment to Sryaen, Sryaen's constant passive aggressive interactions, Zima's colossal meltdown, etc etc, all start to paint an incredibly clear picture.

    I have no horse in this race, but I've been following the thread just so I have some kind of idea on the health of the game's community these days. And I just wanted to echo that I have no idea what's being implied here.

    EakuNhahlar
  • @Sryaen I never accused you of having an alt that voted in the Dominion election.

    I don't particularly enjoy interacting with you because you seem to be incapable of seeing other people's viewpoints, especially if they're opposite your own. - This comment in particular has really thrown me off. I posted twice at the very start giving my opinion on the state of the Dominion. My third post was to point out that the member list of that discord server was full of known metagamers and toxic people alike.

    The only thing I'm implying is that your participation in this thread is largely influenced by your friends. You've had nothing to say or contribute except inflammatory 'lol' reacts until you were dragged into the thread via me calling you out.
    Copperhead of the Third Spoke says to you, "Intelligence matrix in moniker Bulrok reveals above average results when compared alongside proximal presence."
    ZethrieAeryxSryaen
  • Except.. I'm not friends with most of the people who have been mentioned in this thread? I've never had any sort of OOC (or IC for that matter) interaction with more than 80-90%(?) of the people in the Dominion. In any case, I replied. Sorry emoji reacts tilted you so much lmfao


    Tell me how I'm doing!
    (Web): Mileta says, "Okay... Sry is an edgelord..."

    (Web): Dreww says, "Sryaen just wants to be the best Dhar boi and slaughter everyone."
    Zethrie
  • KodazaKodaza Los Angeles
    edited May 18
    Okay, so.

    Whatever the issues might be, it seemed like @Nhahlar was really trying to start a conversation in good faith, and try to come to some sort of resolution. There was some discussion for a while, but as the thread continued things got more heated, and things stopped feeling constructive.

    Nhahlar seemed to notice that too, because he made a really strong post trying to wrest the thread back on topic, and I think that's extremely admirable of him.

    And after he did that, once the attempt to discuss the issue in good faith was resumed, people stopped responding for a while. And now, despite that admirable effort to bring the thread back under control, it's only degenerated back into fierce insults back and forth over Sryaen's reactions. From a neutral party, this feels less constructive than ever now.

    MaeveRihrinSibattiSryaen
  • Tensions are high and I get that. I get the frustrations that might arise from seeing what are essentially uninvolved and malinformed parties weighing in. But I also do not want to see this thread closed or devolve any further, if I'm being honest. If nobody has anything more productive to add, that's fine. I said my piece(s) on it, and at the end of the day I don't really care if Sryaen has a horse in this race or if he's just a guy with an itchy react finger.
    IazamatKurakSryaen
  • ruvyn said:

    I am coming at this from someone who has never really been associated much with Dominion before playing Ruvyn.

    The tension within it is very palpable. It's made finding a Sire difficult because I can tell there are sides and I am paranoid about somehow attaching to the 'wrong' one. I had to see this thread to even begin to understand.

    It makes it to where I very much do not want to invest in the character if there's going to be such constant tension. Reading this thread makes me start to doubt interactions I've had and the intent behind them. I really don't like it.


    I'm sorry that it's affecting you. Don't worry about picking a Sire on a side. Pick one that will mesh well with your character and bring you more RP avenues. Your character is fantastic and fits well into the Dominion RP, and nobody should be acting a certain way towards you depending on who your char's Sire is. I think there's only a handful of people that can see who it is anyway, so you don't even have to offer up that information if you don't want to.
    KurakNipsyMaeveFyrren
  • edited May 18
    I haven't played in ages and mainly just lurk forums occasionally, but it seems like there's been multiple threads like this(like the Teradrim one) that keep getting started by or primarily populated by the same people. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to comment in here, because Kurak and Iazamat and Bulrok and others seem to be positively seething for their opportunity to dole out public justice. If there is a problem on this level, I think it should be taken to admins, not litigated on forums. These threads always get nasty as hell and seem more to sway/consolidate public opinion.

    EDIT: Also I have two questions:

    How can an alt army sway a sudden contestation? Vote weight exists and takes RL weeks to accrue.

    Why does the sudden promotion have to be OOC, and not IC favoritism, which is allowed?
    SryaenCallidoraZethrieAlmolNhahlarKurakIazamatBulrokAsaraiiTeramasceAeryxGalileiIllikaal
  • Carmin said:

    I haven't played in ages and mainly just lurk forums occasionally, but it seems like there's been multiple threads like this(like the Teradrim one) that keep getting started by or primarily populated by the same people. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to comment in here, because Kurak and Iazamat and Bulrok and others seem to be positively seething for their opportunity to dole out public justice. If there is a problem on this level, I think it should be taken to admins, not litigated on forums. These threads always get nasty as hell and seem more to sway/consolidate public opinion.

    EDIT: Also I have two questions:

    How can an alt army sway a sudden contestation? Vote weight exists and takes RL weeks to accrue.

    Why does the sudden promotion have to be OOC, and not IC favoritism, which is allowed?

    So the characters that are negatively affected by the things brought up in this thread don't matter because you, who don't play, doesn't like that Kurak, Iazamat and Bulrok posted on here?

    Any thoughts on the issues that have been happening, or, just here to share your inactive dislike for them?

    Everyone tried to RP it IG. It didn't work. Who wants to go cry to admin about it when we're all adults and should be trying to make the org better for everyone involved?
    AlmolIazamatKurakTeramasceGalileiKodazaMaeve
  • edited May 18
    I don't want to be dismissive, but if you don't play, and when you do play it's not even in the orgs at issue, and it's also kind of clear that you didn't read the multitude of posts and screenshots leading up to this page, maybe your two cents isn't actually valuable enough to be dropped here. Context matters, experiences matter. It's possible I could have done a better job packing the information for consumption, but I'm not sure you understand the situation well enough to be commenting on it.

    It does bother me that more people who have experienced the things I've described (I'm not doing another repeat summary post, I'm sorry) aren't posting here, but I also know that not a small number of them are concerned about tanking their in-game experience over it. I mean, I've already been put on ignore by at least two guild leaders over this post, so I kinda get where they're coming from.

    I'd really rather see a reply that isn't some version of "confrontation makes me uncomfortable, therefore it is bad."
    ZethrieIazamatNipsyMaeve
  • edited May 18
    Carmin said:

    I haven't played in ages and mainly just lurk forums occasionally, but it seems like there's been multiple threads like this(like the Teradrim one) that keep getting started by or primarily populated by the same people.

    We're very outspoken people with our finger on the pulse of Shadow's intrinsic issues and willing to call them out. Like the Teradrim, this thread touches on something that has been an ongoing and unspoken (except through the grapevine) issue for a number of years now.

    I don't blame anyone for not wanting to comment in here, because Kurak and Iazamat and Bulrok and others seem to be positively seething for their opportunity to dole out public justice. If there is a problem on this level, I think it should be taken to admins, not litigated on forums. These threads always get nasty as hell and seem more to sway/consolidate public opinion.


    It's incredibly disappointing and telling to me that being frank and candid is being construed as "positively seething for their opportunity to dole out public justice" - this thread was a good faith opportunity to bring to light issues and discuss said issues. Instead it has devolved into uninvolved parties now making attacks on those who have spoken about their experiences and the issues that abound in this organization, forcing these parties to defend themselves and further derail the thread. The issue here is not those speaking up, it's those who continue to remain silent while dropping positive forum reactions on anyone attempting to derail the topic.

    As for it being taken to the administration, we've already spoken about that. We as a community are adults and we can attempt to handle this like adults, unless one side refuses, but this is still bringing it to the administration's attention.

    EDIT: Also I have two questions:

    How can an alt army sway a sudden contestation? Vote weight exists and takes RL weeks to accrue.

    Why does the sudden promotion have to be OOC, and not IC favoritism, which is allowed?


    It does not take RL weeks to accrue. It is a 5 week average that can be gamed if you accrue enough hours before the rollover when it's calculated.

    It could be entirely IC favouritism, but there are enough markers to justify suspicion, especially given the Dominion's recent stance on forcing veteran characters to jump through the hoops. There's further suspicion given the receipt posted.
    NhahlarAsaraiiBulrokKurakGalileiKodazaNipsyEhtias
  • Carmin said:

    I haven't played in ages and mainly just lurk forums occasionally, but it seems like there's been multiple threads like this(like the Teradrim one) that keep getting started by or primarily populated by the same people. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to comment in here, because Kurak and Iazamat and Bulrok and others seem to be positively seething for their opportunity to dole out public justice. If there is a problem on this level, I think it should be taken to admins, not litigated on forums. These threads always get nasty as hell and seem more to sway/consolidate public opinion.

    EDIT: Also I have two questions:

    How can an alt army sway a sudden contestation? Vote weight exists and takes RL weeks to accrue.

    Why does the sudden promotion have to be OOC, and not IC favoritism, which is allowed?

    I will quote myself from earlier because it is relevant:

    "I know some people might look at this 'alt voting' thing and wonder why vote weight doesn't stop it. But seeing the sheer number of people coming out of the woodwork means that it doesn't matter if they all have 1 vote weight, there are enough of them to overcome it."

    Depending on the election timing, it is very easy to accrue one vote weight during the course of an already started election. With the sheer amount of "ancient" vampire that logged in for the election even with a single vote weight, it would not be hard to sway an election, that is just math!

    As far as the shots fired at me, I am not in the Dominion but I am taking the thread as done in good faith, which means I am giving my advice. I have not said anything unreasonable in this thread. I asked for receipts once and gave my opinion on how to proceed.
    Kurak said:


    I do not want to derail the whole thread with this tangent. But I agree disrespecting Abby and Chak is not inherently bad rp. But I think when taken in the context these characters are trying to help the org right their path and instead are met with scorn and insults by a metagame cabal that has no interest in vampire rp does help highlight the issue.

    Kurak said:

    These sorts of actions require public outcry to effect change. There is no way to handle a situation like this quietly. These types of behavior only flourish when the spotlight is not on them.

    These types of problems have gone under the radar for years while Aetolia was being grossly mismanaged. You do not handle problem with extensive ooc metagaming by "quietly" writing letters to admin. You call it out, pull it kicking and screaming into the light. Often times doing that is alone is enough to effect change. You can also get other people to post their stories and opinions on it. My public justice is pretty weak, I do not even call out names! Not that I could I am not even sure who all is in the Dominion beyond a few people I suspect are problem players.
    NhahlarAlmolIazamatNipsy
  • The thread has been pretty well burnt by bad faith actors at this point, so I feel a need to add that it's telling to me that no one posting these derails/attacks (or quietly reacting positively to said derails/attacks) will actually address any of the accusations being leveled here. They are consistently glossed over, which I find to be an implicit admission that the accusations are, in fact, valid and cannot therefore be defended against.
    KurakBulrokNipsy
  • the reason people are reluctant to post is because making the cool kids mad, has and will be bad for them IG see basically the entire History of IRE. going back to IRC chat rooms. At some point understanding that nothing you say, will have any effect on the opinion of the "cool kids", it's like speaking to religious zealots. their faith in their correctness isn't worth the hassle.

    trying to point out bad behavior by your friends and I'm speaking broadly because enough of you are tight with them. as being bad yet no one wants to have that conversation. see the Tiur talk with rijetta, callidora ect


    Alot of what you people have taken issue with planning things IG on discord I've not seen. I'm in the dominion disco(for now) but I typically try to avoid discord servers because in my experience they all breed toxic.

    I understand you see -this- as an issue. but it's a damned if you do damn if you don't. for example as Empress I took a hard nosed stand point and booted people who were openly disrespectful. Who attacked guild leaders as in pvp. and that was seen as -abuse of power- at the time. on the same token the dominion is accused of being to soft for the goals of the admin theme wise. Which is it?

    It's miss leading to take screen shots of people venting and then saying actions were planned. engagement with -you- all isn't really worth it to many of the people you openly attack. because no matter the point they raise you will :

    o deflect calling it a derail
    o call it what about ism
    o go full character attack not character but the content of their person...
    o over look everything Tetchta did because "valid IC reasons" sure we can call em that
    o carnifex attacking, threats to kill any who call out tetchta for trying to divide bloodloch
    o the shadow web for weeks dogging dominion members OOC

    Mac might be the oldest current IG char to hold the Preanomen class that is still around. making him from an IG stand point go through gr1 tasks, gr2 tasks and gr3 tasks would just be an insult to the history Mac has within the conanguine community. taking a joke on discord, then say -oh this is sus hur hur it's a problem- instead of taking the time to raise the concerns ic (if you did I'm not aware) if you did but didn't like the answer because your world view is it was planned OOC it wasn't. I've joked about getting cured and moving to enorian a few times if or when I do will you attack me for planning it on disco?

    The list goes on. so basically we are mad that people are being OOC mad and it bleeding into IC while doing it ourselves? my original point of everyone is guilty after having time to catch up is spot on accurate.

    The issue is everyone is trying to get back at those bad people that made them sad/mad mentality. Someone needs to be the first to say thats just about enough. Someone needs to be the bigger person. if I had it my way all OOC disco servers not dealing with mudlet/system support would be closed because they are CANCER across the board. some are just better at hiding their dirty laundry.

    The dominion does have an issue, being told by the Admin to "fix it" then getting little to no direction on how. abhorash char logged in refuses to respond to questions IC or OOC. the admin not just coming out and saying what they want.

    Lets be honest this all stems from an OOC dislike of callidora, who by all metrics isn't perfect. but neither are any of us.

    the problem with muds is and always will be the people who play them

    yes I expect to get numerous disagrees, and covering for your bad actors responses. lets just continue ignoring that maybe the things you are raising here are responses to perceived slights perpetrated by your bad actors who I whole heartedly believe acted in bad faith. but I can't slight them for it why? because people in the dominion acted in bad faith too. it's all cyclical.

    in closing I still have respect for everyone because taking up for your friends, the show of loyalty there's honor in that. praise in public punish in private. it's time we sit our people down and really talk to em, I've got a list of issues I'll be laying out for Callidora and the rest of dominion leadership. and they can do with it what they will. but I'll do that IG.

    As for the hold a grudge train I'm getting off at the next station, I hold no ill will for any of you, happy mudding
    IazamatSryaenAlmolZethrieNhahlarKurakNipsyIllikaalTeramasceProcyon
  • Tirria said:


    Lets be honest this all stems from an OOC dislike of callidora, who by all metrics isn't perfect. but neither are any of us.

    Jesus christ, no it doesn't, oh my god. Did you read anything?
    IazamatGalileiZethrieNipsyTeramasceLin
  • @Tirria I tried IG and got shat on for it. For days and days. Got told Asa was throwing tantrums, but they changed the things Asa had an issue with.

    So no, I tried IG and got blacklisted but my suggestions were taken and now my character is still blacklisted and occasionally attacked maliciously by people who have nothing to do with anything happening at the time.
  • TetchtaTetchta The Innocent
    Please stop dragging my name into this.

    Sryaen
  • @nhahlar 100% the response I predicted

    @asaraii no one should be blacklisted, disagreeing with or pushing hard to move a direction shouldn't be met with outright hostility.
  • Yes, you said something ludicrous, and I disagreed with it. It was a predictable response to something outlandishly incorrect.
  • Urgh. I only have one comment to make.

    The dominion does have an issue, being told by the Admin to "fix it" then getting little to no direction on how. abhorash char logged in refuses to respond to questions IC or OOC. the admin not just coming out and saying what they want.


    Bloodloch is the same. I got no direction on how. I had to write things and sell the idea. Then Abhorash was on board with it. He won't dictate what you should do, and he will piss on your cornflakes if it's not worthwhile. It's the character.
    NhahlarNipsyLegynMaeveTeramasce
  • edited May 19
    I'm honestly tired of being accused of being "guilty" for something that cannot be defined and now being accused of this stemming from an OOC hatred of Callidora. The only thing I'm "guilty" of is caring about the player experience and being transparent and honest. If you honestly believe that people are refusing to engage due to any of the points in the bullet list, then you aren't paying attention and you aren't listening.

    Edit: In fact, the last time I spoke with Callidora OOC it was a civil and polite conversation in which we discussed how I thought she had been manipulated by another player or players into some questionable behaviour. While I'm not sure the discussion concluded in anything particularly beneficial, I had felt like we had reached common ground and at least understood one another a little better. However, the behaviour has continued, which, along with her silence (something she does IC as well when consequences of her RP come knocking), leads me to surmise that the problem may actually lie with Callidora. That doesn't mean I hate her. I can dislike her behaviour and want to discuss it frankly without having to hate her.
    KurakGalileiNhahlarNipsy
  • I know I'm going to get a lot of off topics and disagrees with this but I really do believe that pineapple does not, has not, and will not ever belong on pizza.

    Go on then, flag my posts because I'm right. I'm predicting it. You'll just prove my point.
    Copperhead of the Third Spoke says to you, "Intelligence matrix in moniker Bulrok reveals above average results when compared alongside proximal presence."
    NhahlarKurakNipsyLin
  • Tirria said:

    Lets be honest this all stems from an OOC dislike of callidora, who by all metrics isn't perfect. but neither are any of us.

    Whew, you whole post has a lot to unpack. But let's just focus on this aspect in particular. I do not know Callidora in any capacity ooc. I have no opinion on her as a person. She could be awesome or kick puppies irl, no idea. My character has IG opinion that it acts on and believes in, opinions formed by speaking with other characters and divine.

    But the reality of the situation is admin has been spending big time trying to push the Dominion back on track. I agree with Nhahlar, who I must hate ooc because I have killed him several times ig(that is our new metric?), I think the Dominion might have some metagame issues, especially after reading the numerous receipts in this very thread!
    Tirria said:

    I've joked about getting cured and moving to enorian a few times if or when I do will you attack me for planning it on disco?

    Yes, if you actually planned something on discord and moved and got promoted to GR3 within 15min, it certainly should be side eyed.


    Asaraii
  • edited May 19
    @Tetchta can't really talk about the issues without talking about historical issues that have gotten us to this point.
    And I have been pretty clear, everyone is messy here, even me taking the time to try and address anything here is messy.


    Kodaza
  • Kurak said:

    I have killed him several times ig

    Hold your horses there, sir, you killed me once, by luck, and then I fought a one-man war against your entire guild and almost won. Get your facts straight.

    AlmolAsaraiiKurakNipsy
  • Tirria said:

    @nhahlar 100% the response I predicted

    @asaraii no one should be blacklisted, disagreeing with or pushing hard to move a direction shouldn't be met with outright hostility.

    I have no vested interest in any party as I've literally been inactive for 7RL years and none of the people everyone are complaining about besides @Bulrok and @Callidora are people I played with before now.

    But I do know that group of people were really downright nasty to me while playing victims, and some of them continue to do so.

    Let's just say having my ideas taken IG and then being shat on and told Asa's throwing a temper tantrum over GT over -THE THING THAT GOT CHANGED WITH NO ROLEPLAY..... and STILL no roleplay or reason.....

    I guess they want me to be verbally abused IG by a leader of the guild still while also giving them ways to improve the guild?

    IDK... maybe people need to cull the toxic few that are making their leadership look so poor right now instead of catering to OOC friendships would be a sign of good faith if they don't want to contribute here.
    Galilei
  • I would like the admin to put a definitive answer to the alt army accusation as they are the only ones that can truly be believed on that original point.
    SryaenAeryxZethrieNhahlar
  • Tirria said:

    t
    o carnifex attacking, threats to kill any who call out tetchta for trying to divide bloodloch


    Toz says, "Dishonor on you (Mjoll), dishonor on your family (Seirath), dishonor on your cow (Bulrok)"
    IazamatNipsyAsaraiiAlmolTetchtaKurakKodazaIllikaalTeramasce
  • I never brought up alts, so I hope this isn't an attempt to dismiss issues wholesale because one may be unfounded. I might be able to dig up logs, but I can definitely say that there were about twice as many Dominion folk online around the election time. I honestly just chalked it up to interest in the drama, and I personally don't think they likely swayed anything.
    IazamatSryaenNipsyZethrie
  • I offer up two ideas, perhaps that can help.

    One: A town hall with the Dominion and Ict. This way some rules and ideas can be tossed around. Lay some groundwork for the Dominion as a whole to move on from this.

    Second: An IG town hall meeting for the Dominion members. Someone kill a Teradrim and only that person holding the head can speak, Pass it around. Say your grievances, changes, ect. Leave it in the confines of the Castle and work together. Let everyone have a chance to speak no matter what they say, no disfavors, no tossing. no creddies.

    CallidoraSryaenZethrieEleneNipsyTirriaTeramasce
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