Statpacks - Combat Implications

Daskalos

142 down, 98 to go.

Xiuhcoatl

@Moirean for pk you have knights, sentinels, mages, luminaries, basic web which is still really useful, lycans, vampires, syssin, indorani, shamans. 

Actually most classes have a writhe to use besides monks and cabalists. All of them are pretty useful, even if just as a group hinder tactic. 

Edit: With the addition of most writhes stopping the ability to OUTC, they're also very potent in affliction stacking methods. Particularly to stack things like paralysis and asthma. 

Alexina

Eh.

+1,5% crit strength seems useless. I.e, annihilating crits doing 49440 damage instead of 48,000 just won't do any difference at all. If it was increased chance of more power criticals (staggering criticals instead of normal criticals), then it'd be slightly useful, but I have this hunch that someone really good at math could tell us all that it wouldn't come close to the +crit chance bonus anyway.

Extra movement speed/mana/health could be useful, but they're more just neat things than pre-requisites. I got the health and crit chance so far, getting writhe speed when I level up.

I really doubt anyone will reach level 230 before the game finishes.

Macavity

Alexina said:

I really doubt anyone will reach level 230 before the game finishes.

people said that about reaching level 100 and then again beyond.  I would not put it past some people to attempt and do this

Alexina

Macavity said:

Alexina said:

I really doubt anyone will reach level 230 before the game finishes.

people said that about reaching level 100 and then again beyond.  I would not put it past some people to attempt and do this

http://dev.aetolia.com/node/21064

This thread was posted five years ago when the level cap got removed and so far, people have only gotten sixty levels above 100. There'd be seventy levels left up to 230, and with how experience scales, it'd take way, way, way longer to get there (levelling up was initially made easier with the addition of xaanhal/volcano and chalices but since then, experience per level has just been going up while experience gained per hour of bashing has remained largely the same).

Level 200 seems a much, much more reasonable goal, and even that'll probably be a few years to reach. I've considered trying to get there, but I'm not even convinced I'd be the first one to get there at this rate. I'm barely managing to keep up the level gap to Shixblix and he seems to be pulling ahead of the rest.

Moirean

Xiuhcoatl said:

@Moirean for pk you have knights, sentinels, mages, luminaries, basic web which is still really useful, lycans, vampires, syssin, indorani, shamans. 

Actually most classes have a writhe to use besides monks and cabalists. All of them are pretty useful, even if just as a group hinder tactic. 

Edit: With the addition of most writhes stopping the ability to OUTC, they're also very potent in affliction stacking methods. Particularly to stack things like paralysis and asthma. 

I'm not saying writhes don't exist. I'm not stupid. I'm saying setting one up in a team situation is rarely worth the time, especially now that they don't stack. If you have a monk, you want the target BBTd, not impaled. If you have Carnifex, you want them pulv/crushing, not skewering. Mages can spam tfix because eh, poor mages don't have many options, but now you have that tfix overwriting any sort of actual damage writhe. Plus, aside from tfix spam, getting those writhes requires either very good/lucky timing off paralysis or someone dedicated to breaking legs (in which case, why not just keep going and push for a vivi or hammer or etc). The setup in 1v1 is even more extensive, so you have more issues to deal with than just a writhe time. Extra health lets you survive that writhe better, whereas getting out slightly quicker? Eh, not as worth it as simply surviving imo.

Demarcus

Alexina said:

Macavity said:

Alexina said:

I really doubt anyone will reach level 230 before the game finishes.

people said that about reaching level 100 and then again beyond.  I would not put it past some people to attempt and do this

http://dev.aetolia.com/node/21064

This thread was posted five years ago when the level cap got removed and so far, people have only gotten sixty levels above 100. There'd be seventy levels left up to 230, and with how experience scales, it'd take way, way, way longer to get there (levelling up was initially made easier with the addition of xaanhal/volcano and chalices but since then, experience per level has just been going up while experience gained per hour of bashing has remained largely the same).

Level 200 seems a much, much more reasonable goal, and even that'll probably be a few years to reach. I've considered trying to get there, but I'm not even convinced I'd be the first one to get there at this rate. I'm barely managing to keep up the level gap to Shixblix and he seems to be pulling ahead of the rest.

I don't know how the Aetolian exponential curve is compared to Achaea, but at IronCon one of the staffers from Achaea had mentioned that they crunched the numbers in May or something as to how long it would take Penwize (Achaea's berginbashin' machine) at his current rate of experience gain to obtain the next level and it was over six months. The guy has gotten to level 100 many, many, many times over. Oh, I think that was 134 or 136, to get in the 6 months.

Ezalor

It's also worth nothing though that leveling in Aetolia is much easier than Achaea.

I don't think it's feasible to hit level 230. Maybe over ten years or something with a person bashing every day of that.

Personally I'd take 10% writhe over 2% hp any day of the week. With the buff in tankiness all around, stacking everything into health no longer seems to be the optimal solution, with options like diverting points into dex instead opening up.

Irruel

I'd take the writhe too, but only because the other options are underwhelming. A faster writhe will only make a difference against writhes used to hinder, and that is measured in fractions of a second.

Any writhe used as a bridging move (like jawlocks leading to rips) will always be long enough to allow them to be used as intended. If an augment (or artifact/ability) ever screwed up one of those moves, the devs and liaisons will get it sorted.

Draiman

Everything is measured as minuscule as "fractions of a second". A writhe used to hinder still hinders, but if you have the 10% writhe then you are hindered less. It doesn't matter how small it is, it will add up to your overall up time. And unless things have changed in combat so much that I am just completely out of my mind thinking things like this, time spent up is good, and time spent down is bad.

Edit: Wording

Toz

Testing so far seems to indicate speccing into Dex is a waste of time. 16 or 17 dex is as much as you need - I went from 17 dex to 20 dex and got a 0% flat dodge increase. Granted, I increased jerking by ~7%, but not all that big of a deal.

Irruel

Draiman said:

Everything is measured as minuscule as "fractions of a second". A writhe used to hinder still hinders, but if you have the 10% writhe then you are hindered less. It doesn't matter how small it is, it will add up to your overall up time. And unless things have changed in combat so much that I am just completely out of my mind thinking things like this, time spent up is good, and time spent down is bad.

Edit: Wording

I get that, and I'm not saying it isn't worth having.

I'm saying that the difference isn't going to affect the viability of things like lycan rips, because they're either viable or they are not, and if they are not then the class has been broken, which will lead to it being fixed.

For the other times entanglement is used - either as a hinder in 1 vs 1, or as part of team combinations, it would be a nice bonus but not particularly necessary or game breaking.

Valdus

Toz said:

Testing so far seems to indicate speccing into Dex is a waste of time. 16 or 17 dex is as much as you need - I went from 17 dex to 20 dex and got a 0% flat dodge increase. Granted, I increased jerking by ~7%, but not all that big of a deal.

Dodging was unaffected by any changes this round, so there is still a 1% increase in dodging for every point beyond 13.

Saybre

So! Because I'm such a nice guy, I created this super awesome spreadsheet for playing with Statpacks/Enhancements/Augments to figure out health/mana level, and general Damage increase/decrease.

Keep in mind this is still IN PROGRESS, so anything besides the Top portion of the table and the Reset button, is NOT accurate. (I.e. the Upgrade tables to the lower right)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l5l5gsrztd6g5cl/StatPack Enhancements(1).xlsm

Enjoy.

This does require Excel, OpenOffice/Libre cannot do the Macros and Formulas necessary. I made this with Excel 2013, but I think 2010 can still work.

- Instructions
- Start with your Statpack on the drop down on the left.
- Choose your level.
- On the right end it will tell you how many Enhancements you're entitled to at that level.
- Choose your enhancements, and watch as the magic happens. (Top row is the TYPE, 2nd row is the SUB-TYPE)
- Augments will be available to those at level 110, 120, 130, 140, 150 ,160. (Make sure you round down)
- This does not currently have a dynamic check to limit what you can pick after you've made choices. Mostly because it's too much friggin work. So make sure you read the IG help file on HELP ENHANCEMENTS to see your limitations.

Riluo

How long until we run out of reincarnations?

Macavity

@Oleis can we get something on ENHANCEMENTS REMEMBERED where it will indicate which enhancement we are currently in.  Having 10 enhancements saved, logging off and then coming back a day or so later, you tend to forget what one you are in.

Irruel

Can't you just do "enhancements" and get the info that way?

Neithan

That also wont be a problem before too long, since the unlimited reincarnations are going away soon.

Macavity

Actually I have the artifacts that allows me to change class and statpack every hour if I wanted. And when you have similar classes with similar builds it starts to become harder to distinguish them and to insure you are in the enhancements you have built for the class you might be in.

Areka

You could name your remembered enhancements for the class you are in?

MAGEBASH

MAGEPK

HULKSMASH

HULKDANCE

Macavity

yes I could name them, in fact I have them named for the classes once I have narrowed down what I want for that class.  However, if you have not visited a class for awhile or if you go away from the game for a long period of time, it would be hard to determine what enhancement you are in, if the combinations could be similar in design.  Simply doing ENHANCEMENTS will only tell me my current options I have selected, but wont tell me what I have named it, if I have named it at all.  For people who have multiple classes this would be helpful and reduce the need to code something in to track it

Saybre

This is what I did, just keepin it simple.

[spoiler]

================[ P H E L P -- STATPACKS ]=================

   CLASS    |     ROLE     |     STATPACK     |     ENHANCEMENT SET
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  TEMPLAR   |PvE/PvP(Blunt)|      POWERFUL    |     TEMPLAR_PVE
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  TEMPLAR   |   Speed XP   |      TYPICAL     |     SPEED_BASHER
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  TEMPLAR   |   Tank XP    |      POWERFUL    |     XP_BASHER
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  TEMPLAR   |   PvP(Blade) |      STALWART    |     TEMPLAR_PVP
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  SYSSIN    |      PvP     |      ATHLETIC    |     SYSSIN_PVP
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  SYSSIN    |      PvE     |      POWERFUL    |     SYSSIN_PVE
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  SYSSIN    |      XP      |      TYPICAL     |     XP_BASHER
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  MONK      | PvP(Tekura)  |      POWERFUL    |     MONK_PVP
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  MONK      | PvP(Tele)    |    INTELLIGENT   |     MONK_TELEPATH
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  MONK      | PvE(XP)      |      POWERFUL    |     XP_BASHER
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  LYCAN     |     PvE(XP)  |      POWERFUL    |     XP_BASHER
 -----------|--------------|------------------|-----------------------
  LYCAN     |     PvP      |      POWERFUL    |     LYCAN_PVP
=====================================================================
[/spoiler]

I know what you're saying Macavity, so you do ENHANCEMENTS and it also says : Remembered as "such_and_such"

Only thing is it can be further altered (i.e. in my case I hit 140 and add withering to my current load) so then that goes by by. Theoretically you could make a half enhancement using only 3 points, and then plot the other points depending when you're in whichever class, so on the Admin side coding to put that in could be like..way more annoying work.

Probably be best if you just did something locally on your end imo.

Moirean

I still think we should get more than 10. I'm at like 6 remembered already and I haven't touched all my classes or bashing statpacks yet.