Short COMBAT Questions

Tedrunai

It takes 4+ seconds of salve balance to apply restoration. The most effective limb strategies involve spreading out limb damage so they're forced to pre-restore to heal an amount less than the full 33% in order to outpace it. You also generally don't want to be hitting a limb that was pre-restored as the healing effect is delayed 4+ seconds as well.

Missari

That's what's called "pre-restoration" here. There are entire systems built around it, and you have to figure out how to beat them to be successful.

Varel

Caveat: pre restoration will cure 33.33% if you're full health. The lower your health is, the less it will cure.

Serrice

Yep. Limb combat is a momentum mechanic here. You're trying outpace their restoration curing to land the breaks you need. In general, that also means limb damage is also a lot higher than what you might be used.

Remember being broken in two hits? Yeah, that's almost standard. Double targeting? EVERYBODY GETS DOUBLE TARGETING (that needs it).

Atalkez

I'm being told the Carnifex kills based around limb damage are sub-par. Better off locking then damaging out.

Thoughts?

Seir

Atalkez said:

I'm being told the Carnifex kills based around limb damage are sub-par. Better off locking then damaging out.

Thoughts?

I believe @Draiman has stated to me previously that the limb damage route for Carnifex is viable but not as good as other options that Carnifex has, such as its ability to lock folks and the damage it has via scaling affs on Soul Poison.

Vaskar

Atalkez said:

I'm being told the Carnifex kills based around limb damage are sub-par. Better off locking then damaging out.

Thoughts?

IMO, the carnifex limb route suffers badly from a combination of multiple limb dependency and being affected by weapons rebounding and it ends up being really awkward.

Toz

Vaskar said:

Atalkez said:

I'm being told the Carnifex kills based around limb damage are sub-par. Better off locking then damaging out.

Thoughts?

IMO, the carnifex limb route suffers badly from a combination of multiple limb dependency and being affected by weapons rebounding and it ends up being really awkward.

I've written several offenses for it. Hook/crush > aff route >>>> regular limb route.

Seriously, don't even bother with it - against even sub-standard parry, they've got their full offense (with clumsy stacking/lethargy/other affs to slow you), you'll be several rounds in before you can start slowing them down at all. Your hinder options built into the route (shivering/blurry_vision) are cured by tree/passive/class heals/reconstitute, and you have no way to pressure those in a meaningful way. I had a report ready to go but forgot to submit then forgot to...keep logging in, I guess.

Aishia

oh I was on the last page I answered a question that was answered forever ago rip

Seir

Out of curiosity, what does Vorpal do in Bladefire?

Additionally, what does the Exhaustion bludgeon specialization do as well? Says it causes fatigue in those it hits, which is kind of vague. Both kind of are.

Dzekk

I'm honestly still wondering how Vorpal works, myself, but it seems like Exhaustion depletes their Endurance with each hit. Useful in long 1v1s with monks, I guess.

Draiman

Vorpal is a release that delivers a venom/empowement while not consuming equilibrium or balance.

Think quickshoot but infinitely better.

Seir

So basically like Adder's mechanic if not pulled, just in a blade release form, allowing the Templar to do a 3-way aff attack at once or whatever empowerment and then an attack?

Tedrunai

Seir said:

Out of curiosity, what does Vorpal do in Bladefire?

It kills people. Kills them dead.

Draiman

Yep.

Aishia

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

Xandren

I try to pvp as a sentinel, I do reasonably okay at it. I consider myself low tier, still a noob at it. It's got its nuances, and I suspect that there is a use for our crossbows that many have forgotten at this point, but my question is this:

How does PVPing as a Templar compare to PVPing as a Sent? I might invest into multiclassing as a Templar if it might be worth it in pvp

Draiman

Templar is hands down better. That being said, the classes are still super similar in a general sense.

A few (but not all) differences:

You only have to worry about rebounding as Templar, where as you have to worry about rebounding + parry as Sentinel.

Quickshoot is a poor man's Vorpal.

Sentinel is 100% trackable in everything you do. Pestilence and mirroring (which is given through pestilence) are not trackable for Templar, however. I never noticed it really screwing with my tracking however.

Sentinel was an absolute bitch to code. Due to laziness and the difficulty it took me like a week to hash out my first offense. I did Templar in like 2 hours.

I think if you picked up Templar you'd transition pretty smoothly, as the classes are, like I said, pretty similar in most regards.

Mazarine

Echoing what Drai said-

Templar is hella easy to code as its a cookie cutter class, as long as you're not talking about bludgeoniong. Venom/retri route is literally the same thing every round, or throwing in rsk if you don't want to chance someone dodging.

This is just my personal opinion but I think Templar is also way better for groups, even if you have no idea what your team is doing. Retri in group settings is silly easy to get off as long as the people in your group are using things like asthma/paresis to take up curing balances for the (usually) higher priority affs and I think is more reliable because you don't have to worry about parry or additional balances (salve/pipe). 

Dzekk

Is there a list somewhere of, in general, what classes kind of just win mechanically versus other classes?

Drestyn

To put it really simply: No.

Tedrunai

Dzekk said:

Is there a list somewhere of, in general, what classes kind of just win mechanically versus other classes?

@Dzekk

Speaking from personal experiences:

Shaman >>> Praenomen is about the only true hardcounter in the game. A Praenomen should never be able to beat a Shaman who is properly set up to abuse their advantage. This is because Praenomen can never strip a Shaman's rebounding so Shamans can stop their offense dead in its tracks whenever they want.

Praenomen has an advantage against eq-using classes outside of Shaman. This is because Praenomen is extremely effective at spamming confusion.

Templar has an advantage against all other venom classes. This is because they have the past passive curing in the game on top of a lockbreaker, and Accuracy aura mitigates clumsiness.

Indorani and Templar hardcounter Shaman's unstoppable Reclamation route. This is because Vivisect and Retribution both outpace Reclamation.

Sentinel has an advantage over Praenomen and Luminary because both plodding and idiocy affect these two classes.

Cabalist does better vs aff classes than limb classes because Leveling is the ultimate lolz. I don't say they have an advantage over those classes though because Cabalist itself is also the ultimate lolz.

Theoretically Teradrim should have a decent advantage against other limb classes with yellow Earthpaint + Golem Intertwine, have never seen this in practical use though.

Dzekk

@Tedrunai Thank you, that puts a lot of things into perspective for me.

Fezzix

Shaman has a slight advantage over syssin as well. Syssin relies heavily on hypnosis chain going uninterrupted, and shaman is the only class with a passive resist that can potentially ruin a chain by saving them from impatience or confusion. Syssin is also severely slowed down by cougar spirit if you don't handle curing it properly, since dstabbing is much slower than, say, a Templar's doublestrike, so missing penalizes us more.

That being said, I only fight as syssin, so I can say with full confidence that classes with more passive cures and decent active cures can give you trouble. I've seen Cleansing or Oath of Tranquility or Devotion Healing pull a target from the brink of death multiple times in a fight until the RNG is finally in my favor. Shaman, Templar, and Luminary are the three worst.

Draiman

With the plodding/idiocy nerf I'd say Praenomen win vs Sentinel by a landslide. Sentinels only means of curing is fitness, and that's not enough with how slow their offense is. Plus you can get a fast one handed weapon and whichever one effects balance isn't even noticeable. 

There's also other things but I'm a Prae main at heart SO I'M NOT TELLING YOU. 

Aishia

I feel like in a straight fight without just sitting there trying not to die Shaman loses to Praenomen waaay more especially since the changes. Syssin or Sentinel are really Shamans greatest weakness you usually just die to venom spam regardless of hypno stuff. Anything venom/paresis based really F's Shaman over. (I'm kind of basing my metrics off the best X I've ever fought though some folk I would admit I seem to beat every time regardless)

Draiman

Vinethorns alleviates the venom pressure unless they're not whispering while pulling, which they're still slowing down even. Plus cougar giving out clumsiness/blurry vision.

A straight fight with no stopping when you get behind is kinda silly, turtling when behind is a key part of not dying, and dying means you lose the fight. >.>

Draiman

Cougar is god damned retarded and I want to find whoever designed that fucking animal and beat them senseless.

What on God's green earth is the fucking justification for it?

Aishia

I think the idea is the hard kelp pressure can force a double herb cure.

Aishia

Also like what essentially qualifies as "real" shaman offense doesn't really use vinethorns much or at all. I probably need to look at whatever Vitamin K is doing to cheese you to death haha.