Class Viability pt. 3

Keroc

Hey folks!

Been a while since we've done one of these, and the game has gone through a lot of changes. Renew is gone, fitness is available to all, and we also have a good few more mirror classes out in the open. So it's time for a survey!

This survey is just a short questionnaire asking you to give your thoughts on the viability of each class in the game, and where they stand compared to others. There's also an optional written part at the end where you can write anything you'd like to say about combat in general or classes in specific. Any submitted answers are anonymous!

If you have a moment or two, feel free to answer them and submit away. I generally like to use these surveys as potential avenues to investigate for improvement.

Click here for the form.

You will need to sign into a Google account just so that we can limit responses to one per person.

Like before, once I close the form I will tally up the score and post them for everyone to see.

The old threads you can find here, if you're curious:

Class Viability pt. 2
Class Viability pt. 1

Thank you!

Keroc

The results are in!

With a total of 34 votes, we now have the official tally and tier list of the community.


SOLO TIER:

S Tier:
Zealot / Ravager = 1 x 23, 2 x 4 (7) = 1.15 [up from B]

A Tier:
Wayfarer = 1 x 14, 2 x 14, 3 x 2 (4) = 1.60 [same]
Carnifex / Warden = 1 x 14, 2 x 13, 3 x 3, 4 x 1 (3) = 1.71 [up from B]
Teradrim / Tidesage = 1 x 11, 2 x 11, 3 x 3, 4 x 1 (8) = 1.77 [same]

B Tier:
Praenomen / Akkari = 1 x 12, 2 x 8, 3 x 5, 4 x 3, 5 x 1 (5) = 2.07 [down from A]
Luminary / Earthcaller = 1 x 7, 2 x 12, 3 x 5, 4 x 3 (7) = 2.15 [down from S]
Archivist = 1 x 5, 2 x 11, 3 x 5, 4 x 3 (10) = 2.25 [same]
Sentinel = 1 x 5, 2 x 10, 3 x 5, 4 x 3 (11) = 2.26 [same]
Ascendril = 1 x 5, 2 x 9, 3 x 6, 4 x 1, 5 x 1 (12) = 2.27 [up from C]
Monk = 1 x 6, 2 x 9, 3 x 6, 4 x 4 (9) = 2.32 [same]
Templar / Revenant = 1 x 3, 2 x 13, 3 x 10, 4 x 2 (6) = 2.39 [same]

B- Tier:
Shapeshifter = 1 x 5, 2 x 10, 3 x 7, 4 x 5, 5 x 1 (6) = 2.54 [same]
Shaman / Alchemist = 1 x 3, 2 x 10, 3 x 5, 4 x 6, 5 x 1 (9) = 2.68 [same]
Indorani / Oneiromancer = 1 x 2, 2 x 8, 3 x 12, 4 x 4 (8) = 2.69 [down from A]
Syssin = 1 x 2, 2 x 9, 3 x 10, 4 x 6, 5 x 1 (6) = 2.82 [same]
Sciomancer = 1 x 5, 2 x 4, 3 x 7, 4 x 4, 5 x 3 (11) = 2.83 [down from S]

C Tier:
Bard = 1 x 2, 2 x 4, 3 x 2, 4 x 7, 5 x 5 (14) = 3.45 [new]

D Tier:
Level 200 Class = 1 x 1, 3 x 4, 4 x 3, 5 x 11 (15) = 4.21 [new]


TEAM TIER:

A+ Tier:
Luminary / Earthcaller = 1 x 15, 2 x 9, 3 x 2 (8) = 1.50 [down from S]

A Tier:
Shaman / Alchemist = 1 x 13, 2 x 10, 3 x 4 (7) = 1.67 [same]
Carnifex / Warden = 1 x 18, 2 x 8, 3 x 4, 4 x 2 (2) = 1.69 [same]
Archivist = 1 x 14, 2 x 8, 3 x 3, 4 x 2 (7) = 1.74 [up from B]
Sentinel = 1 x 13, 2 x 10, 3 x 2, 4 x 2 (7) = 1.74 [same]
Monk = 1 x 12, 2 x 9, 3 x 4, 4 x 1 (8) = 1.77 [same]
Praenomen / Akkari = 1 x 13, 2 x 10, 3 x 4, 3 x 4 (4) = 1.84 [up from B]
Wayfarer = 1 x 12, 2 x 9, 3 x 6, 4 x 1 (6) = 1.86 [up from B]
Indorani / Oneiromancer = 1 x 9, 2 x 13, 3 x 6 (6) = 1.89 [up from B]
Shapeshifter = 1 x 11, 2 x 7, 3 x 9, 4 x 4, 5 x 1 (2) = 1.97 [up from B]

B Tier:
Bard = 1 x 9, 2 x 8, 3 x 4, 4 x 4, 5 x 1 (9) = 2.23 [new]
Templar / Revenant = 1 x 8, 2 x 10, 3 x 7, 4 x 4 (5) = 2.24 [same]
Teradrim / Tidesage = 1 x 7, 2 x 9, 3 x 8, 4 x 3 (7) = 2.26 [same]
Level 200 Class = 1 x 6, 2 x 5, 3 x 6, 4 x 1, 5 x 2 (14) = 2.40 [new]
Ascendril = 1 x 4, 2 x 6, 3 x 8, 4 x 3 (12) = 2.48 [down from A]
Zealot / Ravager = 1 x 8, 2 x 4, 3 x 9, 4 x 3, 5 x 2 (7) = 2.50 [same]
Sciomancer = 1 x 1, 2 x 9, 3 x 11, 4 x 3, 5 x 2 (8) = 2.85 [same]

C Tier:
Syssin = 1 x 1, 2 x 3, 3 x 12, 4 x 9, 5 x 2 (7) = 3.30 [same]


And now for a little commentary! Just note I'm probably going to ignore Level 200 classes, they are intentionally weaker then the rest of them.

TOP AND BOTTOM DOGS:

Without much surprise, Zealot / Ravager (solo) heads the rankings after winning the last couple of Duels in a row. The explosive power they can output in pushing quickly towards Immolation / Extinguish, along with the removal of Renew pushes this class over the limit a bit. It'll likely see some rebalancing fairly soon.

Luminary / Earthcaller (team) holding the top rank is somewhat of a surprise to me, as they aren't seen very often in team compositions. Despite the Overwhelm / Deface nerf being the most recent major change to them, they still hold that number one spot in most people's minds. The rest of their kit is nothing to scoff at, perhaps this is why they sit at the top.

Bard (solo) sits far at the bottom of the tier list, the most new class of the game. This is a somewhat common trend when it comes to new classes, as both Archivist and Zealot went through similiar feelings on their release. Perhaps there is more weight to the opinion this time, as it is neutral and accessible to all.

Syssin (team) claim the bottom of the team tier list for a second time. Despite a few buffs recently, perhaps it is time for some bigger buffs to the class, who also remains low in the solo list too.

INTERESTING POINTS:

There is a growing amount of people who are unsure of how to rank a class in its capabilities, almost double the amount compared to last time class viability was polled.

Sciomancers fell down from S to B- tier, although I believe it has been proven a few times that the removal of Renew has lifted their competitiveness after some of the bigger nerfs they received.

Luminary / Earthcaller have also fallen down from S to B tier. They might actually be worse off then Sciomancers, as Fitness becoming available to all might be a bigger issue for them then everyone losing Renew.

Indorani / Oneiromancer also dropped a bit, perhaps fueled by Fitness becoming accessible to everyone. It can make aeon a lot harder to stick with asthma, which may reflect this change in thought.

Something I am noticing is that there hasn't been too much of a shift in what is considered powerful in team combat through the last couple of surveys, which might indicate that it is time to give team-oriented skills some bigger changes to refresh the meta. People do seem to be rating a number of classes just overall higher in general, which may further support that the team scene might be a bit too sterile.

We also have a few less people voting from Spirit now, compared to past surveys. It's usually been about even. There were 22 Shadow votes, 11 Spirit votes, and 1 voter who marked both.

Seurimas

Keroc said:

Bard (solo) sits far at the bottom of the tier list, the most new class of the game. This is a somewhat common trend when it comes to new classes, as both Archivist and Zealot went through similiar feelings on their release. Perhaps there is more weight to the opinion this time, as it is neutral and accessible to all.

As someone who has put a lot of work into Bard and enjoys it quite a lot, I will just say they feel like a class that is just a couple minor tweaks away from being "good". I don't necessarily even know what those tweaks would be, though I have a few ideas. If they get basically anything of substance from the next Classleads round, I'd say it's a coin flip whether they end up as A-tier or S-tier.

C-tier seems very appropriate for them right now, though. Definitely better than the level 200s, but that's about it!

Sheryni

Seurimas said:

Keroc said:

Bard (solo) sits far at the bottom of the tier list, the most new class of the game. This is a somewhat common trend when it comes to new classes, as both Archivist and Zealot went through similiar feelings on their release. Perhaps there is more weight to the opinion this time, as it is neutral and accessible to all.

As someone who has put a lot of work into Bard and enjoys it quite a lot, I will just say they feel like a class that is just a couple minor tweaks away from being "good". I don't necessarily even know what those tweaks would be, though I have a few ideas. If they get basically anything of substance from the next Classleads round, I'd say it's a coin flip whether they end up as A-tier or S-tier.

C-tier seems very appropriate for them right now, though. Definitely better than the level 200s, but that's about it!

I think about the same of it. When I was barding a lot, it felt competitive other than the extent to which someone could turtle against it once things get bad - specifically by changing elevation. I had more time-outs as bard than any other class I've played, and a lot of it was because of sheer swing up/fly spam.

If bard had vertigo or something I'd be pretty happy with it, I think. Maybe I would run into some other issues as people got more familiar with defending it, but it felt mostly good.

It was definitely a very fun class, because of the complexity. It just didn't feel like the reward matched the difficulty when you could just bail at any point with fly.

Illikaal

Imo, Syssin, Sciomancer, Ascendril and Luminary/EC are probably the top 4 classes that are sleeper A+ or S tier. I'd put Tidesage/Teradrim in here too but that class' strength seems a lot more obvious than the others. I just think their current unpopularity adds to this perception. We saw this last round regarding Zealots, and even following a round of significant nerfs they still ended up being one of if not the most powerful class in the game.

Seurimas

Sheryni said:

Seurimas said:

Keroc said:

Bard (solo) sits far at the bottom of the tier list, the most new class of the game. This is a somewhat common trend when it comes to new classes, as both Archivist and Zealot went through similiar feelings on their release. Perhaps there is more weight to the opinion this time, as it is neutral and accessible to all.

As someone who has put a lot of work into Bard and enjoys it quite a lot, I will just say they feel like a class that is just a couple minor tweaks away from being "good". I don't necessarily even know what those tweaks would be, though I have a few ideas. If they get basically anything of substance from the next Classleads round, I'd say it's a coin flip whether they end up as A-tier or S-tier.

C-tier seems very appropriate for them right now, though. Definitely better than the level 200s, but that's about it!

I think about the same of it. When I was barding a lot, it felt competitive other than the extent to which someone could turtle against it once things get bad - specifically by changing elevation. I had more time-outs as bard than any other class I've played, and a lot of it was because of sheer swing up/fly spam.

If bard had vertigo or something I'd be pretty happy with it, I think. Maybe I would run into some other issues as people got more familiar with defending it, but it felt mostly good.

It was definitely a very fun class, because of the complexity. It just didn't feel like the reward matched the difficulty when you could just bail at any point with fly.

Does exhaustion stop racial flights or was that just weariness? Bard does have access to both, although they're hard to buffer in the normal flow of Bard combat.

Sheryni

Seurimas said:

Sheryni said:

Seurimas said:

Keroc said:

Bard (solo) sits far at the bottom of the tier list, the most new class of the game. This is a somewhat common trend when it comes to new classes, as both Archivist and Zealot went through similiar feelings on their release. Perhaps there is more weight to the opinion this time, as it is neutral and accessible to all.

As someone who has put a lot of work into Bard and enjoys it quite a lot, I will just say they feel like a class that is just a couple minor tweaks away from being "good". I don't necessarily even know what those tweaks would be, though I have a few ideas. If they get basically anything of substance from the next Classleads round, I'd say it's a coin flip whether they end up as A-tier or S-tier.

C-tier seems very appropriate for them right now, though. Definitely better than the level 200s, but that's about it!

I think about the same of it. When I was barding a lot, it felt competitive other than the extent to which someone could turtle against it once things get bad - specifically by changing elevation. I had more time-outs as bard than any other class I've played, and a lot of it was because of sheer swing up/fly spam.

If bard had vertigo or something I'd be pretty happy with it, I think. Maybe I would run into some other issues as people got more familiar with defending it, but it felt mostly good.

It was definitely a very fun class, because of the complexity. It just didn't feel like the reward matched the difficulty when you could just bail at any point with fly.

Does exhaustion stop racial flights or was that just weariness? Bard does have access to both, although they're hard to buffer in the normal flow of Bard combat.

Neither of those stop at least artifact flight. I never checked if the racial was different, but as far as I'm aware bard has no affliction to stop at least artifact flight. I'd be happy if weariness did it. At least it'd be something.