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Townhall part 1
Razmael
Administrator, Immortal
Ictinus said: I'll make this intro as short and painless as possible so we can get into the questions. I know you're all eager to know what's what.
Ictinus said: So, I'm Sam/Ictinus, I played Aetolia 11 years ago for a while, then eventually got hired on Achaea. Most of my work has been building and event related, and I'm aiming to bring that focus and experience here to hopefully achieve great things!
Ictinus said: I've spent a massive amount of time getting caught up over the last few days. There's a lot, but I'm getting there. There are definitely going to be things I won't be able to answer yet, particularly lore-related questions.
Ictinus said: There are also likely to be a lot of "I have a plan for this " answers as well. Lists are being made, plans are being worked out, and I'm starting to get a picture of the next few weeks and months in mind and start getting some work done.
Ictinus said: With that in mind... onto the queue!
Ictinus said: I think you should be able to speak now!
Aeryx asks about projects in the pipeline such as mirrors, mining.
Aeryx said: The letter that 50 of us signed off on a few days before you came on, it was stated what we wanted was events, and story, and roleplay. Jeremy said on our stream that you were hired to give us more of that, and to put a pause on promos for awhile. All that being said, my question is, how will this impact the several features related projects that have been in the pipeline, such as mirrors, and Mining? Can we expect to see anything from these before the end of the year?
Ictinus said: Okay, as a bit of an insight into how things are looking there, one of my primary aims for Aetolia is to take back most of the administrative responsibilities, as well as handling more of the non-code legwork for new releases and systems.
Ictinus said: With Razmael and Keroc able to focus much more on their actual jobs, we should have a much more efficient working environment when it comes to getting new systems devised, coded, written, tested, and released in a timely manner.
Ictinus said: That means that there should be no steam lost on mining or mirror classes once we are settled down.
Aeryx said: Good to hear. That's it for me.
Ictinus said: I've already had a crash course in mining to bring myself up to speed with the system, and we've agreed on an end point for the implementation.
Ictinus said: I've also seen some concerns expressed that with someone new at the helm, the mirror class project is going to be abandoned or forgotten. I can say definitively now that that is not going to happen.
Ictinus said: The current two classes are both in progress. To be completely honest I am absolutely blown away by the work that the volunteer team has been doing there. They are heroes.
Ictinus said: Following up on my comment about legwork and division of labour, my vision here is really for big projects like this to be a collaborative effort that includes me pitching in anywhere that's needed.
Ictinus emoted: ok
Ictinus said: Ok!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Mjoll asks about Manifestation Apocrypha not being implemented
Ictinus said: Hello!
Mjoll said: Completely selfish question from me, unfortunately: April marked the release of the first Mirror Class, Revenant, but it remains incomplete. Manifestation Apocrypha wasn't given to us pending some roleplay "later". When can we have it?
Ictinus emoted: ok
Ictinus said: Ok!
Ictinus said: Sorry, I was just glancing over that and conferring on some of the specifics.
Ictinus said: I can't give you a date here, but it's on my radar now. I've put it on the list as a short therm thing to get done ASAP.
Mjoll said: Thanks!
Ictinus said: Term, rather.
Ictinus said: This is also a good opportunity for me to say that I don't consider releasing anything with bits missing as an acceptable standard. And I have no plans whatsoever for that to continue in future.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Rhyot asks about gold sinks/prizebags, commodities, guild envoy slots
Rhyot said: I've a few things to ask, so please bare with me... You can zap me later and everyone else can target me later for it too, I'm sure.
Rhyot said: 1) There is a serious lack of gold sinks within the game, something that has been complained about time and time again. Most recently I created a thread with a few ideas (https://forums.aetolia.com/discussion/4054/gold-sinks-and-you). Yet, despite the complaints from the playerbase, nothing is ever changed. With Cryptic chests being removed due to obscene credit abuse, prize bags were created in their place but their introduction was met with absolute disdain because of how much crap they really are. This was due to the fact that they scale up in price, but not reward. Everyone in this game is quite aware of how lootboxes work and more times than not will invest in these lootboxes as the addictive Aetolian gamers that we are, however the prizebags aren't lootboxes. They're a gold sink for crap rewards (usually some pill, heart, or eye) and as such are not a real gold sink at all. To that end, I pose 2 questions: 1) What is your stance on creating more avenues for gold sinks? 2) How do you feel about upping the ante on the current gold sinks we do have?
Rhyot said: 2) Commodities. Oh for the love of all that is unholy.... commodities. They are the bane of our existence, mostly in how they are obtained. The farming commodities are fine, but the other more important items such as ice/ash/steel/gold/silver are incredibly difficult to obtain. Village shops are slow to produce, minimal obtainment is had during orrery time, the cities not being able to produce any at all, and Mining/Third production skill being released Soon(tm) (read: in 2023). Is there any means of better enabling commodity production or are there other plans entirely for this?
Rhyot said: 3) This is more a guild related question as well: Is there any possibility of changing the amount of envoy slots down to 70% from home city instead of 75%?
Rhyot said: Ok. Go.
Ictinus said: OK. Let's hit gold sinks first. I have this on my list along with another slew of economy related things to look into. I completely hear the need for more of them.
Ictinus said: New ones are tricky, almost always best done as a planned part of a new system or content release - that is my preferred method, rather than tinkering too much with what is already there. Nobody likes it when costs are increased, and I'd like to avoid having to do much if any of that where possible.
Ictinus said: With mining on the horizon, I'm somewhat confident that that will assuage a number of commodity woes. I know that there will still be comms left that can't be generated or obtained, but we've talked about this briefly already and it's something I want to tackle in a realistic timeframe, not some nebulous thing that's years away.
Ictinus said: Because of that, I don't want to introduce any short term band aids.
Ictinus said: Envoys is something else I've only briefly looked into. My personal stance on this is that with a precedent of emphasising ties between city and guild, that loosening things there is not ideal. I'm not against looking into it and taking action that's needed, but I'd prefer to get a better picture of population before committing to anything.
Ictinus said: Unfortunately a lot of your questions fall into the 'I have a plan' category.
Ictinus said: But I hope to win your confidence by demonstrating that those plans will manifest as a reality in a realistic time period.
Rhyot said: All ideal answers. Small note on the gold sinks... No need to increase costs of what's there if you just make the prize bags have more chances of rolling rather than 1 item at increasing costs. Otherwise, understandable.
Ictinus emoted: emote nods.
Ictinus said: Prize bags are also on the radar now, thanks for that.
Tina asks about the commodity shortage and whether there will be new purchases requiring commodities before generation is solved
Ictinus said: Hello!
Tina said: I'm not sure how the other cities are doing, but I'd like to ask about commodities more. Almost six years ago now the ability for city's to generate their own commodities was disabled. At the time we were told a new system for gaining them would be released, but first they wanted to drain commodity stockpiles as part of a larger project to fix the economy of the game. Two years ago farming was released that gave us back access to four commodities, with two more skillsets in plan to be released sometime in the future that keeps getting delayed. This has led to dwindling stockpiles with personal crafters and cities all fighting over the same finite village commodities. Compounded to that is the admin's decision to randomly spring surprises on us during this six year period where we need to spend thousands or tens of thousands of commodities on essential upgrades for the city with no forwarning like the coil upgrades for the pylons. Which naturally makes us paranoid to sell stock below a certain point. Some commodities are getting to critical levels even with that, and things like keeping city sigil layouts and the like are getting to the point they just can't be maintained. There were stopgaps introduced like some commodity gain at the orrery and the ability to on occasion trade in commodities at a two to one or three to one ratio to trade in surpluss commodities for ones you are short on, but all these are bandaides on a large wound. While I know you can't give an exact date on mining and an unknown third skillset. When can we expect an actual solution to the comodities, at least to where cities can sustain themselves and regularly sell a fair amount to its citizen crafters again? Weeks, months, years? So we can plan how much longer the shortages will last. As closely as you can estimate now. Also can we get 100% confirmation on whether or not you'll be dropping more surprises on the city where we need to spend thousands of commodities at once on city upgrades, or can we think of those as a thing of the past a.
Razmael said: You appear to have cut off at the end.
Tina said: Or can we think of those as a thing of the past and actually be more lax on the stockpiles we are paranoid about maintaining?
Ictinus said: Okay. I've talked to Razmael and Keroc about this to get some background. The numbers were picked intentionally to dwindle but not end in bankruptcy. You shouldn't have concerns about selling to citizens. Putting you in a position of going bankrupt is definitely not a scenario we want to be in.
Ictinus said: I can also definitively say that we have no plans to release any new systems that consume comms before getting the generation methods out.
Ictinus said: I do understand your frustrations there. I know that expectations have been set high before and you've been burned with long waits. That is not going to happen anymore.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Azarae asks about if future events will be cancelled like the curse event, and limiting amount of people at lessers
Azarae said: 1) My biggest concern I suppose would be if the staff (Or whomever makes the decision) will concede to complaints people make during future events and cancel them early again like during the curse event, which I was really enjoying, or avoid certain planned events or story lines due to concerns about people complaining about those too? I know it is difficult to please everyone and the pressure that comes with such, so I understand if this cannot really be answered. 2) More of an after thought of a question, but will capping the amount of people in lessers ever be considered?
Ictinus said: Okay, on events, my philosophy here is that we don't chart a course without multiple people taking a serious look over the plan and doing our absolute utmost to account for problems and at the same time ensure that themes and topics are tasteful and appropriate.
Ictinus said: That isn't to say we aren't going to tackle difficult topics, but one of the essential parts of event planning for are a collaborative effort to ensure we are not creating any huge blunders before anything starts.
Ictinus said: For me are, rather.
Ictinus said: With that said, I am of a mindset that once the trigger has been pulled, it's important to stick to a course. Things are always going to come up that aren't expected or that throw a huge wrench into the works.
Ictinus said: I actually think those are fun, though perhaps not while they are happening.
Ictinus said: But I don't think I have ever outright cancelled an event midway during my years in Achaea, and I don't see that changing in Aetolia.
Ictinus said: The second one is a bit easier to answer. We don't have any plans to cap the number of people at lessers, but I believe there was a new type of focus released recently that does have limited people.
Ictinus said: Another good opportunity for me to comment that conflict systems are another item on my list to investigate. There is some scope for freshening things up a bit on that score, but I don't have anything concrete in mind yet.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Saidenn asks about orgreqs, bringing a promote command to cities (i.e. guild promote adjacent), and an abandoned Archivist storyline with the megasizer
Saidenn said: Three questions.
Saidenn said: 1) Org-reqs are the way to request special attention for an org, but also infamous for time, implementation, man power to benefit, especially when volunteer or admin staff can use their time to maximize 'benefit' for more players over a specialized request specific to an org for a particular instance. What do you feel is the scope of org requests, their usage, and how is the best way we may utilize them for working with you and the Pools to benefit our orgs and those who exist within them?
Saidenn said: 2) Alongside that - The ability to promote/demote for guilds was recently added, freeing up guild favors for recognition without worrying over ranks and requirements - something that is often used as incentive in orgs. Are there any thoughts (or metadata regarding approval or not) to extend that to cities, as well, and could we get a system to tie rewards to favors if we desire so that when used we can provide an easier way to distribute additional incentives to those who contribute or participate?
Saidenn said: 3) Which of you should I bother about the abandoned storyline with my megasizer?
Ictinus said: I'll start with the orgreq system. I can start by saying I've made a start looking through these already. I know there's a backlog to get through. I'm on it.
Ictinus said: Some of your concerns about waiting time from submission -> review -> reply -> implementation should be solved purely from better organisation. Timely responses to these should become the norm once I'm a bit more caught up on things.
Ictinus said: Scope is a bit more tricky to define.
Ictinus said: I tend to be of a mindset that orgreqs should be for modest-sized requests. New denizens, shops, some additional functionality options that enhance the rp experience.
Ictinus said: I don't feel that orgreqs are a good avenue for major changes or suggestions. That isn't to say you can't make those suggestions, but when it comes to effecting big org changes in terms of identity, these almost never end well without a significant amount of committed, focused RP in a direction that the vast majority of the org is on board with.
Ictinus said: And in scenarios where that IS happening and an org IS effecting a paradigm shift, that feels like something that we as a team should already be aware of happening and have a conversation about ways we can support it.
Ictinus said: I'll need a bit more time to look into your other two questions. I'm open to reconsidering city mechanics and advancement in the future, but nothing concrete here yet.
Saidenn said: I will email you about the last if you like to give you background. It was intended to be a bit cheeky.
Ictinus said: And the megasizer problem is something I need to chase up too. It's on the list now, I'll do my best to investigate here and get something in the works sooner rather than later.
Ictinus said: Ah, that would be great, thanks!
Ayastia skips (question already asked)
Ayastia said: First, welcome and thank you for this town hall. Second, Aeryx and Rhyot have both asked what I came to talk about, but I didn't know how to leave the queue and this isn't the place to voice my only other displeasure do you can emip me and I would like to speak with you another time.
Ayastia said: So you can skip me... sorry. Mobile.
Ictinus said: No problem at all. Feel free to send me an email with your concerns too.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Mazzion asks about a war system, and asks Ictinus what his Aetolian character was called
Ictinus said: Hello!
Mazzion said: Thoughts on any type of war system. We don't have a great record of the systems staying to fruition. I definitely don't expect any kind of timeline, just general thoughts on it at all. Also, care to share your Aetolian character name?
Ictinus said: I don't have anything specific to say on an actual war system yet. I have some experience with this from Achaea, so it's not completely absolutely out of the question or anything, but...
Ictinus said: I can say that I am a big fan of pk and conflict-oriented storylines and gameplay as a whole. I also prefer organic conflicts that are rp-centric, where something small like a grudge duel or a hard won bounty snowballs and turns into something much bigger, over spring-up systems.
Ictinus said: I think that rivalries and conflicts that people are invested in are important for a vibrant world. More events will help here, and freshening up existing systems will be something we do in the future.
Ictinus said: So in short, I haven't thought about war in the context of a specific system, but I definitely have peripheral conflict related things on my mind.
Ictinus said: You will have to keep wondering about my character name though unfortunately.
Mazzion said: I understand on all accounts. Good luck, thanks for investing in our community.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Chassity asks about artisanals/bardics, other ways of earning credits, increasing the playerbase, and dormant gods
Chassity said: As many know I always have lots to say so bare with me as I have a few questions.
Chassity said: I know im not as prepared as some to ask these questions but over the years of playing and most players that have been here between 15-20 years have seen numerous things come and go. Many players I have seen ask about previous things such as advertising or artisinal things. These things were greatly appreciated back in the day. I know that the artisinal stuff hasn't been touched since 2018 according to the website! thats leaving a lot of things out for prizes and the likes for people to earn rather than sinking their real life money into the game. I know that milestones were a way to help aleviate some of the burden and giving players a way to earn bound credits. That being said can we possibly see other ways of earning credits that are possibly unbound like essay contests, art contests, map contests etc etc. so that people have that chance to purchase credit valued items from other players.
Chassity said: My next question is rather simple what is your plans for trying to help increase the player base. Not just the old players creating new characters but truly new players to aetolia that can really liven things up. Back in the day there used to be promotional things to do to get people to join where there was a code that people could give out to people that used it they would get something like 5 credits for a person joining with their code. Also advertisments on medias was another promotion way back in the day. These are all ideas but we need a broader player base. Not necessarily dragging people from one realm to another but really getting the word out there to get people more interested in playing.!
Chassity said: Lastly I have to ask what is the plan with all of the dormant gods in the game. I know some just said screw this we aren't getting paid to deal with this abuse and some are like yeah I need to move on whatever the reason there are numerous rp gods that are dormant and not active what is going to be done to make them active. I ask this but understand im not asking to just throw a celani or producer into their place to make them somewhat active. I more talking about extending the pools base and making the pools more inviting to people to join. I have heard horror stories of how bad it was to work in the pools because the workload was overwhelming! Can we possible see some new faces in the pools to help lighten the load of the others? Possibly giving people a chance to really get into so real divine rp. Which has been really lacking, I mean how many divine wares have take place in the past 5 years. My guess not many if any at all. Another prime example is all of the IDEAS and BUGS that have been submitted like a prime example is the puzzle cube. I was told by Tiur to ask Razmael, which I took that as a stab at him more than a its being looked into and will be fixed when we can!
Ictinus said: I am definitely interested in a return of bardics and artisanals. I think these can be great to run alongside an event in progress or to coincide with holidays or other things going on in the game.
Ictinus said: Additional methods of earning credits via in game methods is not something I'm against either, but this is more of an IRE-centric conversation that I'd need to put more time into.
Chassity said: Oooh also promotions I know the focus is to move away from them but are the still going to happen monthly and if so can we possibly see some of the "discontinued pieces" brought back and those things that older players have that new players will not have access too?
Ictinus said: As for your second question. Referrals do still exist (HELP REFERRALS). We are doing some work on an IRE wide level to improve the website for better search optimisation, and I do think that an increase in activity and a more consistent flow of 'things' happening will naturally lead to more returnees.
Ictinus said: There's no easy solution to dormant god roles. We are never going to force or pressure a volunteer into playing a specific role that they haven't chosen.
Ictinus said: It's crucially important that when that choice is made, it's made from a place of passion and will to embody that God.
Ictinus said: And as for promos, I am committed to making these a low priority.
Ictinus said: As Jeremy said in his post earlier in the week, IRE's expectations here have been drastically overblown.
Chassity said: I look forward to emailing you more questions that continue on to these questions but I Do not want to take up so much time on the townhall that others may actually ask for me.
Ictinus said: We'll do something basic to keep a cycle going for the next couple of months, but it's not going to be any sort of a priority. There may be content in the future to line up with events and such, but again, nowhere near the top of my list.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Chassity said: I thank you for the time and hope to hear back soon on other things we have discussed in email already.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Almol asks about the Sect, refreshing the shop and the rankings system
Almol said: Two short questions. First, though, I want to echo the desire for some sort of War system. And say your answer to Mazzion's questions made my evening. Except that last one.
Almol said: Sect has a few problems. Some people feel there is no point to participate. Would it be possible to have a shop refresh or otherwise incentivize participation?
Almol said: Another problem is players occupying high ranks and fighting just enough to keep from being removed due to inactivity. The top 20 is currently rarely represented in actual sect fights. Would it be possible to speed up deterioration of sect accuracy rating or some other use it or lose it measure to discourage occupying a position without risking it. With the current ranking system it is almost impossible to climb without beating people ranked above you and if they are not fighting, you can't.
Ictinus said: We can look into the shop and other incentives, but that is something I'll need to talk over with Keroc.
Ictinus said: A similar answer for the second one on that. I gather that the ranking system is not ideal, but I can't offer anything specific here yet.
Almol said: That's fine! I just want to add something to your radar.
Ictinus said: Keroc has the unenviable job of teaching me 10 years of new PK things.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Cayden asks if some orgs fit poorly into modern Aetolia
Cayden said: For most of my time on Aetolia, I have been part of the spirit tether, though my question likely also exists on the game's other side. A problem I have noticed is that many of its orgs fit poorly into 2021 Aetolia, insofar their lore and 'job' is considered. If I had to name names, I would say that the Sentaari, Ascendril, and Illuminai struggle with this the most. Is this a problem you would agree exists, and if so, is there a timeline on when this will be given attention?
Ictinus emoted: chin
Ictinus said: I am not sure if I do agree it is a problem. My grasp of the geopolitical climate, org health, population, and all of that is extremely slim right now, but I already have this exact thing on a list to look into 'at some point'. So, no immediate plans but once I have a better grasp, if I feel like something is way out of whack, then I'm not against addressing it.
Ictinus said: But I am also extremely mindful that, related to my earlier comment about paradigm shifts, big changes like this almost never end well. So I tend to lean towards fixing rather than breaking and remaking something that risks being worse in the end.
Ictinus said: Hope that covers that base a bit!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Czcibor asks about classleads and the provisioning skill/system
Czcibor said: Hi, thanks for doing this. Have a couple of questions.
Czcibor said: 1) The classlead system is suited for simpler or more isolated suggestions, but for classes generally acknowledged as being significantly over/underpowered due to core mechanics like Ascendril (as an example I'm more familiar with) where ambitious or experimental ideas have to be submitted piecemeal to be considered separately it just hasn't worked. We sometimes end up partial changes that don't really help, if not make the problem worse. There are other times where the problems are acknowledged but the solutions are not approved and we end up getting no changes at all. In either case, we are basically stuck with these changes for another 6 months before we even get another chance at trying to solve these issues. Do you have any plans for how we can have the issues with these classes be better and more quickly addressed?
Czcibor said: 2) Provisioning is something that many players I've talked to are initially excited about but quickly forget about. There are many issues with the system, but I'll list three that stand out to me in particular. Firstly, there appears to be a fixed amount of orders regardless of how many people take part. This is only a minor issue now because very few people actually take part due to these issues, but it's clear that there is no scalability in the design of the system. Secondly, the only benefit to Provisioning is to make gold. While nobody expects to be able to make millions of gold with this easily, the profits for hours of work split over multiple days are closer to the thousands, if not in some cases hundreds. Thirdly, people who got in early have a huge advantage, and this is aggrevated by the first problem, where they can take a much larger share of the already insufficiently large pie. Do you have a plan for how we can make this something people actually want to buy into and do on a regular basis?
Ictinus said: On #1, I've already talked about Classleads a bit this week, and I can say that we should be vastly more efficient with these in the future. I know the 6 month cycle/1 report is far from ideal. Definitely open to reviewing that to make it less of a hassle to get things done and problems solved.
Ictinus said: And as you mentioned provisioning I'll go ahead and talk about gaming alongside that as the answers are the same.
Ictinus said: After looking into these a bit and getting an idea of the specifics, I think the best way to approach this is just being honest about them. Both of these were Tiur's pet projects, they were half coded, released unfinished, and some of the content was deliberately obsured to conceal that from players to cover for the half-baked product.
Ictinus said: Needless to say this is completely unacceptable. They are both on the list for me to investigate and come up with a plan to fix them.
Czcibor said: Fair enough. Thanks again!
Ictinus said: And I can also add that we will not be releasing any new systems in a state like this, without the corresponding work done, testing done, and apposite HELPs created and whatnot.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Mephistoles asks about the upcoming mirror classes, Ictinus reveals what classes are getting mirrored!
Mephistoles said: Two questions. What is the timeline for the release of the luminary mirror class? It's the mirror class I'm most excited to see. "I can't say" is an acceptable answer if that's the case. Second. A few class leads ago there were a bunch of changes to Teradrim that got approved and never implemented. It wasn't that they weren't approved or were later unapproved, things just got busy and they got forgotten. If I can document and find these for you, will you implement them as they were approved changes?
Ictinus said: I'm not ready to share a timeline on the release yet, but I can say that the team is hard at work putting them together and I'm actually excited to help. HOWEVER, I CAN now confirm what the two classes being reworked are...
Haelra said: Ooo.
Ictinus said: Indorani and Luminary.
Ictinus said: And by reworked of course I mean mirrored. Pardon that.
Ictinus said: I'll need to look into outstanding classleads, but by all means email me over the details and I'll check it out.
Mephistoles said: Thank you. I'm excited that those are the two being reworked.
Ictinus said: Me too!
Raah said: Me three!
Ictinus emoted: smile
Ayukazi asks about Gods in events, and a tier system for Sect
Ayukazi said: I am quite interested in giving every organization an opportunity to RP, and giving cross-organization RP opportunities that can span through different timezones. On this matter, there are a few questions I have of varied flavors. As what Azarae brought up, the playerbase called out for multiple worldwide events, but then there were serious complaints both during and after, which caused a halt or modification on a few recent events. There are many of us that still want this opportunity for major events, which may be easier if we return to organization and cross-organization RP opportunities. Gods are a significant and important roleplay avenue with the players in Aetolia. In which direction do you see the roleplay events going with the Gods in Aetolia so that each active God has a chance to have equivalent involvement? Similarly, what types of events do you foresee to further enrich the lore of each organization? We have a lot of mirror classes coming out, and several people reaching 200, who may or may not take the same classes that are already made, so finding a way to RP this transference gives many avenues. And as you just said, there are many avenues with conflict that could arise, should our playerbase be willing to accept it.
Ayukazi said: I think also with Sect it has been mentioned among several peers that a tiered system would work better. Like a win to loss ratio for the season built tier. Everyone starts in lower tier, and as your win to loss moves up you can move up a tier, leaving you to up to three tiers, where you can also be knocked back down. This would likely mitigate people from having to fight the same people over and over again and allow more people the interest to fight more. I for one know how I have motivated those within Bloodloch's militia requires them to move up Sect to move up ranks, which means they will ultimately have to enter. They will learn to fight trial by fire this way, but a tiered system would give them an opportunity to learn better, with people their same grade of fighting. This would likely help other organizations build their War and Guild combat paths around the tiered structure as well without beating the spirit out of those learning to fight.
Ayukazi said: Ok. Go.
Ictinus said: On 1, I think that ultimately depends on the event. God involvement can be great when it makes sense, but not every event can or should involve Gods either, since player agency is such an important thing.
Ictinus said: I can reassure you though that there will be big events. I have a ton of lore and history to catch up on, but they are, 100%, my favourite part of the producer job.
Ictinus said: And even though this is a new team for me, I'm sure some of them have similar feelings to me about the adrenalin and chaos of doing something crazy that the whole game is involved in.
Ayukazi emoted: emote nods in agreement. "I'm more interested in seeing more cross-organization roleplay events. Too many organizations stay in their corners, and they could use some brancking out."
Ayukazi said: I'm more interested in seeing more cross-organization roleplay events. Too many organizations stay in their corners, and they could use some brancking out.
Raah said: That's half my reason for being up here!
Ictinus emoted: nod
Ayukazi emoted: emote coughs. "Branching."
Ictinus said: Absolutely on board with that in theory. I think that will come naturally as a consequence of more energy and time spent on events as a whole, but it's 100% something I'll keep in mind.
Ictinus said: My answer is mostly the same as earlier on the sect. I think the primary problem is addressing and incentivising the desire to participate and get involved in it, so any updates or refreshes of that system will be done with that vision in mind.
Ayukazi emoted: emote nods again. "It's an idea to ponder on. Thank you for hearing me out, if just for a suggestion."
Ayukazi said: It's an idea to ponder on. Thank you for hearing me out, if just for a suggestion.
Ictinus said: Absolutely. Happy to hear it.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Elene (a frog) asks about classlead cycle, regular updates on Aetolia, and mortal builders
Elene said: Short questions. Three of them.
Elene said: The backlash against our former combat lead saw the shift of classleads and changes going back to Nalus to handle. I also happen to think it was handled really badly. This has also seen open classleads being shifted from quarterly cycles to a 6-month cycle. Czcibor covered it a little with his question and you mentioned the 6 monthly/1 report cycle. Are we going to review the frequency on it, and will you share your stance on your tolerance of any future such treatment of your team members?
Elene said: Next. Are we likely to get quarterly updates on what's happening in Aetolia? It helps to give players a sense that even if we don't see it, that there is progress behind the scenes. For example, can we have some updates on the current event and the timeline of it?
Elene said: And lastly. Are you still hiring mortal builders?
Ictinus said: I am open to reviewing the frequency, but given my status as a non-coder, I want to really make sure that the division of labour problems from the past are eliminated before committing to anything along that line.
Ictinus said: No issues with quarterly or mid year updates. I'll need to see what works best there, but they'll happen.
Ictinus said: And I need to review the current staff of mortal builders but there is definitely scope to hire more and get more work available.
Ictinus said: Building is one of my two big passions alongside event handling, so you can expect me to take a big interest in it.
Ictinus said: Oh. I missed the second part of your first question. Sorry.
Ictinus said: Without having been here to have personal experience, I don't have a lot to say on the specifics of that situation, but my stance on the whole is that if there is a problem with someone on the team, you come to me and I will look into it. I have a fairly low tolerance for anyone on the team having to deal with any fallout or backlash. That should be my job, not theirs.
Elene said: Perfect. I'm satisfied with the answers. Thanks, Icti!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Zhukov asks if vampires can embrace outside of guilds again, farkle in player houses, and if mirror Indorani will have a guild
Zhukov said: Thanks for the chance to talk, couple of things, any change vampires can be allowed to embrace again outside the guild? Or at least the artificial limit on how many a person can sire be removed? No other guild is subjected to it, or can the guild itself be reviewed? The unique status vampires had is gone with it and it removes alot of what made the class unique.
Zhukov said: Second, farkle in player housing. Lots of us want it, can you make it happen?
Zhukov said: Third, you mentioned indorani mirror class, doesn't have a guild, will it have one on the spirit side or will be reformed fin some fashion?
Ictinus said: I've actually spent a bit of time getting familiarised with how vampirism works now, and -for now- I am happy with the options that Sanguis affinity provides to allow for interaction outside of the Dominion. I'm aware of the desire for Sire/childe RP outside of the Dominion, but no plans to consider any farther-reaching changes until I've had more time to think about it.
Ictinus said: The way farkle works makes this impossible at the moment.
Ictinus said: So that one will need to be a no for the time being I'm afraid.
Ictinus said: I can say though that the Indorani mirror will not have a guild on the spirit side.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Ehtias asks about production skill refund when all are released, deleting packs/pack rankings, give Tekura generic attack messages. Also cups.
Ehtias said: 1) Is the plan if it's even been discussed still to give a refund on a production skill when the third is released which I if I recall was stated to be the case in the original plan for these skills? 2) Also can ya'll just like delete packs and pack rankings or nuke the list of commands for it. Most of it does not work correctly anymore and I believe some of the commands are outright broken these days. I wouldn't wish fixing it on anyone. 3) Can someone for the love of all that is my sanity update tekura to have generics and not need a bunch of multistage triggers for tracking which limb you actually hit. Thanks have a nice day, replace bloodloch with a sand kingdom so my city stops trying to kill me with lava explosions.
Ehtias said: Also cups or whatever.
Ictinus said: It's still the plan to offer free swaps when the third and final production skill is released. We won't want anyone feeling like they can't take up farming (or mining), or (redacted) because of something in the future.
Ictinus said: I'm not very familiar with pack stuff yet except a very rudimentary understanding. But I always prefer to fix and iterate rather than removing something, so anything that happens there is likely to be in that vein.
Ictinus said: And 3, unfortunately isn't possible for a variety of reasons.
Ehtias said: Okie doke thanks.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Sarran asks if bringing someone from another game will impact policy and decisions, tensions between admin/players, the gap between PvP skill tiers, and if Icky is an ok nickname
Sarran said: I have three and a half questions. I'll start with the hardest one just to make you sweat!
Sarran said: First, do you think that bringing in someone from another game instead of promoting from within or drawing the change out over time will have an impact on policy decisions and stances that have a subjective component? Especially if you plan to shoulder largely administrative responsibilities, which most often involve those kinds of things. One easy example might be the handling of issues (though I don't know if that's something you would take over, just an example), or harkening back to Saidenn's questions about org requests. There are written rules, and then there is what people expect to be enforced or dismissed.
Sarran said: Do you foresee any significant shift in the tone or substance of decisions like that, and if so, will there be any measures to give people time to adjust or acclimate and/or very clear communication on those things prior to enforcement? Since this answer might be lengthy and my other questions equally so, should I hold onto the other questions or ask them now?
Ictinus said: While I draw up some answers for you, feel free to hit me with the third question.
Ictinus said: Or the other questions I should say.
Sarran said: Okay, question two: As an outsider looking in, the #1 recurring theme I've heard in web chat is variations of this conflict or that between this player and that admin (or variants like grumping about issue decisions, perceived favoritism, etc etc). Not like all the time, but it's notable. I know that was one of the things mentioned in your news post, or at least I assume it's related. I was wondering if you could be more specific about what you perceive the core or root issue/cause of that tension to be, and maybe some broad stroke insight into fledgling plans to address it, and finally what we as players can do to help?
Sarran said: Third, tangentially related to the recurring discussion about sect - I came in very interested in PvP, but have quickly hit a point where I don't feel like I have any mechanics or outlet to participate in that entire aspect of the game, literally at all, at my current level of skill/investment. Without some sort of segregated tier system in sect, I only ever really fight the highest end players who are deeply competitive. At leylines, my contribution is generally just follow the right person and hit with what they say - I'm strong enough to be noticed and targeted, but not strong or experienced enough to really participate meaningfully. In arena events, my only hope of competing meaningfully is to avoid the sect-going crowd and try to find others.
Sarran said: Do you collectively up in the Pools consider this yawning chasm between upper and lower tier PvP as an issue, and is there any interest in doing something to address it if suggestions are made, or even possibly some ideas already kicking around up there? If so, what broad level of priority would you say it is?
Sarran said: Finally, my friends suggested ending on something light if I'm nervous so I was wondering if we can call you Icky for short?
Sarran said: ...okay go?
Ictinus said: I think it's unavoidable that there will be a shift in tone and policy decisions on a broad scale. Teething problems here are inevitable, but I can at least reassure you that I have significant experience in this sort of thing, and I'm not looking to completely upset the apple cart when it comes to issue resolutions, language rule enforcements, or really anything at all without going over the established standard and taking it into account.
Sarran said: I understand, that makes sense.
Ictinus said: I can also say definitively that any updates to policy or rules, particularly of an ooc nature dealing with the actual administration concerns, will always be announced in advance outside of extreme cases.
Ictinus said: Assuming that you mean my remarks about healing the divide between the admin and the playerbase, my impression here is that communication has been lacking, there's been inconsistency, and above all an almost hostile attitude projected from the admin side onto you. I hope that just these few hours have put to bed any concerns about that continuing.
Sarran said: Most importantly, what can we as players do to help in fixing this issue?
Ictinus said: The obvious answer is to keep feedback constructive. It's easy for me to say that, but I'm not sure there is really a silver bullet here other than establishing a standard of mutual respect.
Sarran emoted: emote nods
Ictinus said: Closing the gap between the top tier and the lower tier in PK context is tangentially on the radar. Lowering the barrier to entry at least I think is almost always good where possible, but we have to be very careful here in what we're able to do.
Ictinus said: As far as I can tell though, there are some city clans with dueling opportunities for practice to get some experience in before stepping uo tp the plate and joining the Sect.
Ictinus said: That being said I am also a huge believer in a strong 1 v 1 culture, so I hope that there's more we can do to promote that and create more desire in the future.
Sarran said: Do you think that something that forces players to choose a tier to fight at might be a possible solution? For example, if each season in sect you had to select bronze/silver/gold and the rewards scaled on your choice, so that the most competitive people might pick the higher ones?
Sarran said: That might help to create a space for mid-tier people to play together in.
Ictinus said: To be determined. I have some thoughts, and I know Keroc has some ideas, but nothing concrete yet.
Sarran said: I understand.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Scandland asks what Ictinus' plan is to avoid producer burn out
Scandland said: I know you're taking on a lot of responsibility here. The last thing we want to see is another producer burnt out. What's your plan to avoid that? How can we be sure that a few years down the road, we're not having this same scenario again? Also, thank you for doing this for us. Aetolia means a lot to us all, and from what I've seen so far, you're gonna do great.
Scandland said: Also, holler if you ever want to take a break. Scandland would love to have you over for tea or wine.
Scandland said: That's all!
Ictinus said: Great question. Proper scheduling and time management will be the key I think. Not biting off more than I can chew. Not making impossible promises.
Ictinus said: Maybe sleeping now and then.
Ictinus emoted: grin
Raah said: We're going to make this man sleep more.
Scandland said: Good, good! I just wanted to make sure.
Ictinus said: And really just more collaboration. I don't want either myself or the team to be in a position where any of us is completely buried and unable to get help to ease the burden.
Ictinus said: From what I've seen so far these guys are insane, so I'm not worried about having enough support.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Illidan asks about the level 200 plans
Illidan said: What are the plans for level 200 events going forward? Some players are concerned that there will be a cutoff period? Will there be, and do you have an idea of what that is?
Illidan said: When, too.
Ictinus said: I think the reality here is that it's not sustainable or realistic for us to keep making new level 200 classes as more and more people reach that goal. We've already been talking about some ways to best address this in an elegant manner, but that's still at a design/ideas stage for the time being.
Illidan said: The other I had was more closely related to lore regarding the Shamans, but I won't bother you with that one.
Illidan said: That's it!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Damonicus asks about Indorani newbies and more info on mirror Luminary
Damonicus said: Due to the abrupt removal of the Indorani guild to accommodate the 3 guild per city system. Players are still given an option to create a character with this class set. While they currently come into Bloodloch, they are only able to get the proper class information if an individual from the guild prior or one that is in the former guilds main clan is online. Can we get those that graduate from the Academy be automatically added to the Children clan so we can give them a bit better direction at no cost to the player due to no guild support, or perhaps more in depth help files given during the academy to assist with. It seems the turnover rate for Indorani novices is high and would like to fix that. Annnd what guild is getting Mirror Luminary??
Ictinus said: Okay, firstly I think I should clarify that while Indorani being removed did satisfy that three guild per city rule, it was not the motivating reason behind their deletion.
Ictinus said: And I agree completely that the newbie experience needs to be better. I'm told Wayfarer has a similar problem. It's going on the list to come up with an answer for, but I'm absolutely pro-improvement there.
Ictinus said: Any more info on mirror Luminary will have to remain a mystery for now!
Damonicus said: Oh well, can't blame me for trying. Thanks!
Ictinus said: It was a good effort!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Ictinus said: So, I'm Sam/Ictinus, I played Aetolia 11 years ago for a while, then eventually got hired on Achaea. Most of my work has been building and event related, and I'm aiming to bring that focus and experience here to hopefully achieve great things!
Ictinus said: I've spent a massive amount of time getting caught up over the last few days. There's a lot, but I'm getting there. There are definitely going to be things I won't be able to answer yet, particularly lore-related questions.
Ictinus said: There are also likely to be a lot of "I have a plan for this " answers as well. Lists are being made, plans are being worked out, and I'm starting to get a picture of the next few weeks and months in mind and start getting some work done.
Ictinus said: With that in mind... onto the queue!
Ictinus said: I think you should be able to speak now!
Aeryx asks about projects in the pipeline such as mirrors, mining.
Aeryx said: The letter that 50 of us signed off on a few days before you came on, it was stated what we wanted was events, and story, and roleplay. Jeremy said on our stream that you were hired to give us more of that, and to put a pause on promos for awhile. All that being said, my question is, how will this impact the several features related projects that have been in the pipeline, such as mirrors, and Mining? Can we expect to see anything from these before the end of the year?
Ictinus said: Okay, as a bit of an insight into how things are looking there, one of my primary aims for Aetolia is to take back most of the administrative responsibilities, as well as handling more of the non-code legwork for new releases and systems.
Ictinus said: With Razmael and Keroc able to focus much more on their actual jobs, we should have a much more efficient working environment when it comes to getting new systems devised, coded, written, tested, and released in a timely manner.
Ictinus said: That means that there should be no steam lost on mining or mirror classes once we are settled down.
Aeryx said: Good to hear. That's it for me.
Ictinus said: I've already had a crash course in mining to bring myself up to speed with the system, and we've agreed on an end point for the implementation.
Ictinus said: I've also seen some concerns expressed that with someone new at the helm, the mirror class project is going to be abandoned or forgotten. I can say definitively now that that is not going to happen.
Ictinus said: The current two classes are both in progress. To be completely honest I am absolutely blown away by the work that the volunteer team has been doing there. They are heroes.
Ictinus said: Following up on my comment about legwork and division of labour, my vision here is really for big projects like this to be a collaborative effort that includes me pitching in anywhere that's needed.
Ictinus emoted: ok
Ictinus said: Ok!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Mjoll asks about Manifestation Apocrypha not being implemented
Ictinus said: Hello!
Mjoll said: Completely selfish question from me, unfortunately: April marked the release of the first Mirror Class, Revenant, but it remains incomplete. Manifestation Apocrypha wasn't given to us pending some roleplay "later". When can we have it?
Ictinus emoted: ok
Ictinus said: Ok!
Ictinus said: Sorry, I was just glancing over that and conferring on some of the specifics.
Ictinus said: I can't give you a date here, but it's on my radar now. I've put it on the list as a short therm thing to get done ASAP.
Mjoll said: Thanks!
Ictinus said: Term, rather.
Ictinus said: This is also a good opportunity for me to say that I don't consider releasing anything with bits missing as an acceptable standard. And I have no plans whatsoever for that to continue in future.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Rhyot asks about gold sinks/prizebags, commodities, guild envoy slots
Rhyot said: I've a few things to ask, so please bare with me... You can zap me later and everyone else can target me later for it too, I'm sure.
Rhyot said: 1) There is a serious lack of gold sinks within the game, something that has been complained about time and time again. Most recently I created a thread with a few ideas (https://forums.aetolia.com/discussion/4054/gold-sinks-and-you). Yet, despite the complaints from the playerbase, nothing is ever changed. With Cryptic chests being removed due to obscene credit abuse, prize bags were created in their place but their introduction was met with absolute disdain because of how much crap they really are. This was due to the fact that they scale up in price, but not reward. Everyone in this game is quite aware of how lootboxes work and more times than not will invest in these lootboxes as the addictive Aetolian gamers that we are, however the prizebags aren't lootboxes. They're a gold sink for crap rewards (usually some pill, heart, or eye) and as such are not a real gold sink at all. To that end, I pose 2 questions: 1) What is your stance on creating more avenues for gold sinks? 2) How do you feel about upping the ante on the current gold sinks we do have?
Rhyot said: 2) Commodities. Oh for the love of all that is unholy.... commodities. They are the bane of our existence, mostly in how they are obtained. The farming commodities are fine, but the other more important items such as ice/ash/steel/gold/silver are incredibly difficult to obtain. Village shops are slow to produce, minimal obtainment is had during orrery time, the cities not being able to produce any at all, and Mining/Third production skill being released Soon(tm) (read: in 2023). Is there any means of better enabling commodity production or are there other plans entirely for this?
Rhyot said: 3) This is more a guild related question as well: Is there any possibility of changing the amount of envoy slots down to 70% from home city instead of 75%?
Rhyot said: Ok. Go.
Ictinus said: OK. Let's hit gold sinks first. I have this on my list along with another slew of economy related things to look into. I completely hear the need for more of them.
Ictinus said: New ones are tricky, almost always best done as a planned part of a new system or content release - that is my preferred method, rather than tinkering too much with what is already there. Nobody likes it when costs are increased, and I'd like to avoid having to do much if any of that where possible.
Ictinus said: With mining on the horizon, I'm somewhat confident that that will assuage a number of commodity woes. I know that there will still be comms left that can't be generated or obtained, but we've talked about this briefly already and it's something I want to tackle in a realistic timeframe, not some nebulous thing that's years away.
Ictinus said: Because of that, I don't want to introduce any short term band aids.
Ictinus said: Envoys is something else I've only briefly looked into. My personal stance on this is that with a precedent of emphasising ties between city and guild, that loosening things there is not ideal. I'm not against looking into it and taking action that's needed, but I'd prefer to get a better picture of population before committing to anything.
Ictinus said: Unfortunately a lot of your questions fall into the 'I have a plan' category.
Ictinus said: But I hope to win your confidence by demonstrating that those plans will manifest as a reality in a realistic time period.
Rhyot said: All ideal answers. Small note on the gold sinks... No need to increase costs of what's there if you just make the prize bags have more chances of rolling rather than 1 item at increasing costs. Otherwise, understandable.
Ictinus emoted: emote nods.
Ictinus said: Prize bags are also on the radar now, thanks for that.
Tina asks about the commodity shortage and whether there will be new purchases requiring commodities before generation is solved
Ictinus said: Hello!
Tina said: I'm not sure how the other cities are doing, but I'd like to ask about commodities more. Almost six years ago now the ability for city's to generate their own commodities was disabled. At the time we were told a new system for gaining them would be released, but first they wanted to drain commodity stockpiles as part of a larger project to fix the economy of the game. Two years ago farming was released that gave us back access to four commodities, with two more skillsets in plan to be released sometime in the future that keeps getting delayed. This has led to dwindling stockpiles with personal crafters and cities all fighting over the same finite village commodities. Compounded to that is the admin's decision to randomly spring surprises on us during this six year period where we need to spend thousands or tens of thousands of commodities on essential upgrades for the city with no forwarning like the coil upgrades for the pylons. Which naturally makes us paranoid to sell stock below a certain point. Some commodities are getting to critical levels even with that, and things like keeping city sigil layouts and the like are getting to the point they just can't be maintained. There were stopgaps introduced like some commodity gain at the orrery and the ability to on occasion trade in commodities at a two to one or three to one ratio to trade in surpluss commodities for ones you are short on, but all these are bandaides on a large wound. While I know you can't give an exact date on mining and an unknown third skillset. When can we expect an actual solution to the comodities, at least to where cities can sustain themselves and regularly sell a fair amount to its citizen crafters again? Weeks, months, years? So we can plan how much longer the shortages will last. As closely as you can estimate now. Also can we get 100% confirmation on whether or not you'll be dropping more surprises on the city where we need to spend thousands of commodities at once on city upgrades, or can we think of those as a thing of the past a.
Razmael said: You appear to have cut off at the end.
Tina said: Or can we think of those as a thing of the past and actually be more lax on the stockpiles we are paranoid about maintaining?
Ictinus said: Okay. I've talked to Razmael and Keroc about this to get some background. The numbers were picked intentionally to dwindle but not end in bankruptcy. You shouldn't have concerns about selling to citizens. Putting you in a position of going bankrupt is definitely not a scenario we want to be in.
Ictinus said: I can also definitively say that we have no plans to release any new systems that consume comms before getting the generation methods out.
Ictinus said: I do understand your frustrations there. I know that expectations have been set high before and you've been burned with long waits. That is not going to happen anymore.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Azarae asks about if future events will be cancelled like the curse event, and limiting amount of people at lessers
Azarae said: 1) My biggest concern I suppose would be if the staff (Or whomever makes the decision) will concede to complaints people make during future events and cancel them early again like during the curse event, which I was really enjoying, or avoid certain planned events or story lines due to concerns about people complaining about those too? I know it is difficult to please everyone and the pressure that comes with such, so I understand if this cannot really be answered. 2) More of an after thought of a question, but will capping the amount of people in lessers ever be considered?
Ictinus said: Okay, on events, my philosophy here is that we don't chart a course without multiple people taking a serious look over the plan and doing our absolute utmost to account for problems and at the same time ensure that themes and topics are tasteful and appropriate.
Ictinus said: That isn't to say we aren't going to tackle difficult topics, but one of the essential parts of event planning for are a collaborative effort to ensure we are not creating any huge blunders before anything starts.
Ictinus said: For me are, rather.
Ictinus said: With that said, I am of a mindset that once the trigger has been pulled, it's important to stick to a course. Things are always going to come up that aren't expected or that throw a huge wrench into the works.
Ictinus said: I actually think those are fun, though perhaps not while they are happening.
Ictinus said: But I don't think I have ever outright cancelled an event midway during my years in Achaea, and I don't see that changing in Aetolia.
Ictinus said: The second one is a bit easier to answer. We don't have any plans to cap the number of people at lessers, but I believe there was a new type of focus released recently that does have limited people.
Ictinus said: Another good opportunity for me to comment that conflict systems are another item on my list to investigate. There is some scope for freshening things up a bit on that score, but I don't have anything concrete in mind yet.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Saidenn asks about orgreqs, bringing a promote command to cities (i.e. guild promote adjacent), and an abandoned Archivist storyline with the megasizer
Saidenn said: Three questions.
Saidenn said: 1) Org-reqs are the way to request special attention for an org, but also infamous for time, implementation, man power to benefit, especially when volunteer or admin staff can use their time to maximize 'benefit' for more players over a specialized request specific to an org for a particular instance. What do you feel is the scope of org requests, their usage, and how is the best way we may utilize them for working with you and the Pools to benefit our orgs and those who exist within them?
Saidenn said: 2) Alongside that - The ability to promote/demote for guilds was recently added, freeing up guild favors for recognition without worrying over ranks and requirements - something that is often used as incentive in orgs. Are there any thoughts (or metadata regarding approval or not) to extend that to cities, as well, and could we get a system to tie rewards to favors if we desire so that when used we can provide an easier way to distribute additional incentives to those who contribute or participate?
Saidenn said: 3) Which of you should I bother about the abandoned storyline with my megasizer?
Ictinus said: I'll start with the orgreq system. I can start by saying I've made a start looking through these already. I know there's a backlog to get through. I'm on it.
Ictinus said: Some of your concerns about waiting time from submission -> review -> reply -> implementation should be solved purely from better organisation. Timely responses to these should become the norm once I'm a bit more caught up on things.
Ictinus said: Scope is a bit more tricky to define.
Ictinus said: I tend to be of a mindset that orgreqs should be for modest-sized requests. New denizens, shops, some additional functionality options that enhance the rp experience.
Ictinus said: I don't feel that orgreqs are a good avenue for major changes or suggestions. That isn't to say you can't make those suggestions, but when it comes to effecting big org changes in terms of identity, these almost never end well without a significant amount of committed, focused RP in a direction that the vast majority of the org is on board with.
Ictinus said: And in scenarios where that IS happening and an org IS effecting a paradigm shift, that feels like something that we as a team should already be aware of happening and have a conversation about ways we can support it.
Ictinus said: I'll need a bit more time to look into your other two questions. I'm open to reconsidering city mechanics and advancement in the future, but nothing concrete here yet.
Saidenn said: I will email you about the last if you like to give you background. It was intended to be a bit cheeky.
Ictinus said: And the megasizer problem is something I need to chase up too. It's on the list now, I'll do my best to investigate here and get something in the works sooner rather than later.
Ictinus said: Ah, that would be great, thanks!
Ayastia skips (question already asked)
Ayastia said: First, welcome and thank you for this town hall. Second, Aeryx and Rhyot have both asked what I came to talk about, but I didn't know how to leave the queue and this isn't the place to voice my only other displeasure do you can emip me and I would like to speak with you another time.
Ayastia said: So you can skip me... sorry. Mobile.
Ictinus said: No problem at all. Feel free to send me an email with your concerns too.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Mazzion asks about a war system, and asks Ictinus what his Aetolian character was called
Ictinus said: Hello!
Mazzion said: Thoughts on any type of war system. We don't have a great record of the systems staying to fruition. I definitely don't expect any kind of timeline, just general thoughts on it at all. Also, care to share your Aetolian character name?
Ictinus said: I don't have anything specific to say on an actual war system yet. I have some experience with this from Achaea, so it's not completely absolutely out of the question or anything, but...
Ictinus said: I can say that I am a big fan of pk and conflict-oriented storylines and gameplay as a whole. I also prefer organic conflicts that are rp-centric, where something small like a grudge duel or a hard won bounty snowballs and turns into something much bigger, over spring-up systems.
Ictinus said: I think that rivalries and conflicts that people are invested in are important for a vibrant world. More events will help here, and freshening up existing systems will be something we do in the future.
Ictinus said: So in short, I haven't thought about war in the context of a specific system, but I definitely have peripheral conflict related things on my mind.
Ictinus said: You will have to keep wondering about my character name though unfortunately.
Mazzion said: I understand on all accounts. Good luck, thanks for investing in our community.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Chassity asks about artisanals/bardics, other ways of earning credits, increasing the playerbase, and dormant gods
Chassity said: As many know I always have lots to say so bare with me as I have a few questions.
Chassity said: I know im not as prepared as some to ask these questions but over the years of playing and most players that have been here between 15-20 years have seen numerous things come and go. Many players I have seen ask about previous things such as advertising or artisinal things. These things were greatly appreciated back in the day. I know that the artisinal stuff hasn't been touched since 2018 according to the website! thats leaving a lot of things out for prizes and the likes for people to earn rather than sinking their real life money into the game. I know that milestones were a way to help aleviate some of the burden and giving players a way to earn bound credits. That being said can we possibly see other ways of earning credits that are possibly unbound like essay contests, art contests, map contests etc etc. so that people have that chance to purchase credit valued items from other players.
Chassity said: My next question is rather simple what is your plans for trying to help increase the player base. Not just the old players creating new characters but truly new players to aetolia that can really liven things up. Back in the day there used to be promotional things to do to get people to join where there was a code that people could give out to people that used it they would get something like 5 credits for a person joining with their code. Also advertisments on medias was another promotion way back in the day. These are all ideas but we need a broader player base. Not necessarily dragging people from one realm to another but really getting the word out there to get people more interested in playing.!
Chassity said: Lastly I have to ask what is the plan with all of the dormant gods in the game. I know some just said screw this we aren't getting paid to deal with this abuse and some are like yeah I need to move on whatever the reason there are numerous rp gods that are dormant and not active what is going to be done to make them active. I ask this but understand im not asking to just throw a celani or producer into their place to make them somewhat active. I more talking about extending the pools base and making the pools more inviting to people to join. I have heard horror stories of how bad it was to work in the pools because the workload was overwhelming! Can we possible see some new faces in the pools to help lighten the load of the others? Possibly giving people a chance to really get into so real divine rp. Which has been really lacking, I mean how many divine wares have take place in the past 5 years. My guess not many if any at all. Another prime example is all of the IDEAS and BUGS that have been submitted like a prime example is the puzzle cube. I was told by Tiur to ask Razmael, which I took that as a stab at him more than a its being looked into and will be fixed when we can!
Ictinus said: I am definitely interested in a return of bardics and artisanals. I think these can be great to run alongside an event in progress or to coincide with holidays or other things going on in the game.
Ictinus said: Additional methods of earning credits via in game methods is not something I'm against either, but this is more of an IRE-centric conversation that I'd need to put more time into.
Chassity said: Oooh also promotions I know the focus is to move away from them but are the still going to happen monthly and if so can we possibly see some of the "discontinued pieces" brought back and those things that older players have that new players will not have access too?
Ictinus said: As for your second question. Referrals do still exist (HELP REFERRALS). We are doing some work on an IRE wide level to improve the website for better search optimisation, and I do think that an increase in activity and a more consistent flow of 'things' happening will naturally lead to more returnees.
Ictinus said: There's no easy solution to dormant god roles. We are never going to force or pressure a volunteer into playing a specific role that they haven't chosen.
Ictinus said: It's crucially important that when that choice is made, it's made from a place of passion and will to embody that God.
Ictinus said: And as for promos, I am committed to making these a low priority.
Ictinus said: As Jeremy said in his post earlier in the week, IRE's expectations here have been drastically overblown.
Chassity said: I look forward to emailing you more questions that continue on to these questions but I Do not want to take up so much time on the townhall that others may actually ask for me.
Ictinus said: We'll do something basic to keep a cycle going for the next couple of months, but it's not going to be any sort of a priority. There may be content in the future to line up with events and such, but again, nowhere near the top of my list.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Chassity said: I thank you for the time and hope to hear back soon on other things we have discussed in email already.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Almol asks about the Sect, refreshing the shop and the rankings system
Almol said: Two short questions. First, though, I want to echo the desire for some sort of War system. And say your answer to Mazzion's questions made my evening. Except that last one.
Almol said: Sect has a few problems. Some people feel there is no point to participate. Would it be possible to have a shop refresh or otherwise incentivize participation?
Almol said: Another problem is players occupying high ranks and fighting just enough to keep from being removed due to inactivity. The top 20 is currently rarely represented in actual sect fights. Would it be possible to speed up deterioration of sect accuracy rating or some other use it or lose it measure to discourage occupying a position without risking it. With the current ranking system it is almost impossible to climb without beating people ranked above you and if they are not fighting, you can't.
Ictinus said: We can look into the shop and other incentives, but that is something I'll need to talk over with Keroc.
Ictinus said: A similar answer for the second one on that. I gather that the ranking system is not ideal, but I can't offer anything specific here yet.
Almol said: That's fine! I just want to add something to your radar.
Ictinus said: Keroc has the unenviable job of teaching me 10 years of new PK things.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Cayden asks if some orgs fit poorly into modern Aetolia
Cayden said: For most of my time on Aetolia, I have been part of the spirit tether, though my question likely also exists on the game's other side. A problem I have noticed is that many of its orgs fit poorly into 2021 Aetolia, insofar their lore and 'job' is considered. If I had to name names, I would say that the Sentaari, Ascendril, and Illuminai struggle with this the most. Is this a problem you would agree exists, and if so, is there a timeline on when this will be given attention?
Ictinus emoted: chin
Ictinus said: I am not sure if I do agree it is a problem. My grasp of the geopolitical climate, org health, population, and all of that is extremely slim right now, but I already have this exact thing on a list to look into 'at some point'. So, no immediate plans but once I have a better grasp, if I feel like something is way out of whack, then I'm not against addressing it.
Ictinus said: But I am also extremely mindful that, related to my earlier comment about paradigm shifts, big changes like this almost never end well. So I tend to lean towards fixing rather than breaking and remaking something that risks being worse in the end.
Ictinus said: Hope that covers that base a bit!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Czcibor asks about classleads and the provisioning skill/system
Czcibor said: Hi, thanks for doing this. Have a couple of questions.
Czcibor said: 1) The classlead system is suited for simpler or more isolated suggestions, but for classes generally acknowledged as being significantly over/underpowered due to core mechanics like Ascendril (as an example I'm more familiar with) where ambitious or experimental ideas have to be submitted piecemeal to be considered separately it just hasn't worked. We sometimes end up partial changes that don't really help, if not make the problem worse. There are other times where the problems are acknowledged but the solutions are not approved and we end up getting no changes at all. In either case, we are basically stuck with these changes for another 6 months before we even get another chance at trying to solve these issues. Do you have any plans for how we can have the issues with these classes be better and more quickly addressed?
Czcibor said: 2) Provisioning is something that many players I've talked to are initially excited about but quickly forget about. There are many issues with the system, but I'll list three that stand out to me in particular. Firstly, there appears to be a fixed amount of orders regardless of how many people take part. This is only a minor issue now because very few people actually take part due to these issues, but it's clear that there is no scalability in the design of the system. Secondly, the only benefit to Provisioning is to make gold. While nobody expects to be able to make millions of gold with this easily, the profits for hours of work split over multiple days are closer to the thousands, if not in some cases hundreds. Thirdly, people who got in early have a huge advantage, and this is aggrevated by the first problem, where they can take a much larger share of the already insufficiently large pie. Do you have a plan for how we can make this something people actually want to buy into and do on a regular basis?
Ictinus said: On #1, I've already talked about Classleads a bit this week, and I can say that we should be vastly more efficient with these in the future. I know the 6 month cycle/1 report is far from ideal. Definitely open to reviewing that to make it less of a hassle to get things done and problems solved.
Ictinus said: And as you mentioned provisioning I'll go ahead and talk about gaming alongside that as the answers are the same.
Ictinus said: After looking into these a bit and getting an idea of the specifics, I think the best way to approach this is just being honest about them. Both of these were Tiur's pet projects, they were half coded, released unfinished, and some of the content was deliberately obsured to conceal that from players to cover for the half-baked product.
Ictinus said: Needless to say this is completely unacceptable. They are both on the list for me to investigate and come up with a plan to fix them.
Czcibor said: Fair enough. Thanks again!
Ictinus said: And I can also add that we will not be releasing any new systems in a state like this, without the corresponding work done, testing done, and apposite HELPs created and whatnot.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Mephistoles asks about the upcoming mirror classes, Ictinus reveals what classes are getting mirrored!
Mephistoles said: Two questions. What is the timeline for the release of the luminary mirror class? It's the mirror class I'm most excited to see. "I can't say" is an acceptable answer if that's the case. Second. A few class leads ago there were a bunch of changes to Teradrim that got approved and never implemented. It wasn't that they weren't approved or were later unapproved, things just got busy and they got forgotten. If I can document and find these for you, will you implement them as they were approved changes?
Ictinus said: I'm not ready to share a timeline on the release yet, but I can say that the team is hard at work putting them together and I'm actually excited to help. HOWEVER, I CAN now confirm what the two classes being reworked are...
Haelra said: Ooo.
Ictinus said: Indorani and Luminary.
Ictinus said: And by reworked of course I mean mirrored. Pardon that.
Ictinus said: I'll need to look into outstanding classleads, but by all means email me over the details and I'll check it out.
Mephistoles said: Thank you. I'm excited that those are the two being reworked.
Ictinus said: Me too!
Raah said: Me three!
Ictinus emoted: smile
Ayukazi asks about Gods in events, and a tier system for Sect
Ayukazi said: I am quite interested in giving every organization an opportunity to RP, and giving cross-organization RP opportunities that can span through different timezones. On this matter, there are a few questions I have of varied flavors. As what Azarae brought up, the playerbase called out for multiple worldwide events, but then there were serious complaints both during and after, which caused a halt or modification on a few recent events. There are many of us that still want this opportunity for major events, which may be easier if we return to organization and cross-organization RP opportunities. Gods are a significant and important roleplay avenue with the players in Aetolia. In which direction do you see the roleplay events going with the Gods in Aetolia so that each active God has a chance to have equivalent involvement? Similarly, what types of events do you foresee to further enrich the lore of each organization? We have a lot of mirror classes coming out, and several people reaching 200, who may or may not take the same classes that are already made, so finding a way to RP this transference gives many avenues. And as you just said, there are many avenues with conflict that could arise, should our playerbase be willing to accept it.
Ayukazi said: I think also with Sect it has been mentioned among several peers that a tiered system would work better. Like a win to loss ratio for the season built tier. Everyone starts in lower tier, and as your win to loss moves up you can move up a tier, leaving you to up to three tiers, where you can also be knocked back down. This would likely mitigate people from having to fight the same people over and over again and allow more people the interest to fight more. I for one know how I have motivated those within Bloodloch's militia requires them to move up Sect to move up ranks, which means they will ultimately have to enter. They will learn to fight trial by fire this way, but a tiered system would give them an opportunity to learn better, with people their same grade of fighting. This would likely help other organizations build their War and Guild combat paths around the tiered structure as well without beating the spirit out of those learning to fight.
Ayukazi said: Ok. Go.
Ictinus said: On 1, I think that ultimately depends on the event. God involvement can be great when it makes sense, but not every event can or should involve Gods either, since player agency is such an important thing.
Ictinus said: I can reassure you though that there will be big events. I have a ton of lore and history to catch up on, but they are, 100%, my favourite part of the producer job.
Ictinus said: And even though this is a new team for me, I'm sure some of them have similar feelings to me about the adrenalin and chaos of doing something crazy that the whole game is involved in.
Ayukazi emoted: emote nods in agreement. "I'm more interested in seeing more cross-organization roleplay events. Too many organizations stay in their corners, and they could use some brancking out."
Ayukazi said: I'm more interested in seeing more cross-organization roleplay events. Too many organizations stay in their corners, and they could use some brancking out.
Raah said: That's half my reason for being up here!
Ictinus emoted: nod
Ayukazi emoted: emote coughs. "Branching."
Ictinus said: Absolutely on board with that in theory. I think that will come naturally as a consequence of more energy and time spent on events as a whole, but it's 100% something I'll keep in mind.
Ictinus said: My answer is mostly the same as earlier on the sect. I think the primary problem is addressing and incentivising the desire to participate and get involved in it, so any updates or refreshes of that system will be done with that vision in mind.
Ayukazi emoted: emote nods again. "It's an idea to ponder on. Thank you for hearing me out, if just for a suggestion."
Ayukazi said: It's an idea to ponder on. Thank you for hearing me out, if just for a suggestion.
Ictinus said: Absolutely. Happy to hear it.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Elene (a frog) asks about classlead cycle, regular updates on Aetolia, and mortal builders
Elene said: Short questions. Three of them.
Elene said: The backlash against our former combat lead saw the shift of classleads and changes going back to Nalus to handle. I also happen to think it was handled really badly. This has also seen open classleads being shifted from quarterly cycles to a 6-month cycle. Czcibor covered it a little with his question and you mentioned the 6 monthly/1 report cycle. Are we going to review the frequency on it, and will you share your stance on your tolerance of any future such treatment of your team members?
Elene said: Next. Are we likely to get quarterly updates on what's happening in Aetolia? It helps to give players a sense that even if we don't see it, that there is progress behind the scenes. For example, can we have some updates on the current event and the timeline of it?
Elene said: And lastly. Are you still hiring mortal builders?
Ictinus said: I am open to reviewing the frequency, but given my status as a non-coder, I want to really make sure that the division of labour problems from the past are eliminated before committing to anything along that line.
Ictinus said: No issues with quarterly or mid year updates. I'll need to see what works best there, but they'll happen.
Ictinus said: And I need to review the current staff of mortal builders but there is definitely scope to hire more and get more work available.
Ictinus said: Building is one of my two big passions alongside event handling, so you can expect me to take a big interest in it.
Ictinus said: Oh. I missed the second part of your first question. Sorry.
Ictinus said: Without having been here to have personal experience, I don't have a lot to say on the specifics of that situation, but my stance on the whole is that if there is a problem with someone on the team, you come to me and I will look into it. I have a fairly low tolerance for anyone on the team having to deal with any fallout or backlash. That should be my job, not theirs.
Elene said: Perfect. I'm satisfied with the answers. Thanks, Icti!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Zhukov asks if vampires can embrace outside of guilds again, farkle in player houses, and if mirror Indorani will have a guild
Zhukov said: Thanks for the chance to talk, couple of things, any change vampires can be allowed to embrace again outside the guild? Or at least the artificial limit on how many a person can sire be removed? No other guild is subjected to it, or can the guild itself be reviewed? The unique status vampires had is gone with it and it removes alot of what made the class unique.
Zhukov said: Second, farkle in player housing. Lots of us want it, can you make it happen?
Zhukov said: Third, you mentioned indorani mirror class, doesn't have a guild, will it have one on the spirit side or will be reformed fin some fashion?
Ictinus said: I've actually spent a bit of time getting familiarised with how vampirism works now, and -for now- I am happy with the options that Sanguis affinity provides to allow for interaction outside of the Dominion. I'm aware of the desire for Sire/childe RP outside of the Dominion, but no plans to consider any farther-reaching changes until I've had more time to think about it.
Ictinus said: The way farkle works makes this impossible at the moment.
Ictinus said: So that one will need to be a no for the time being I'm afraid.
Ictinus said: I can say though that the Indorani mirror will not have a guild on the spirit side.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Ehtias asks about production skill refund when all are released, deleting packs/pack rankings, give Tekura generic attack messages. Also cups.
Ehtias said: 1) Is the plan if it's even been discussed still to give a refund on a production skill when the third is released which I if I recall was stated to be the case in the original plan for these skills? 2) Also can ya'll just like delete packs and pack rankings or nuke the list of commands for it. Most of it does not work correctly anymore and I believe some of the commands are outright broken these days. I wouldn't wish fixing it on anyone. 3) Can someone for the love of all that is my sanity update tekura to have generics and not need a bunch of multistage triggers for tracking which limb you actually hit. Thanks have a nice day, replace bloodloch with a sand kingdom so my city stops trying to kill me with lava explosions.
Ehtias said: Also cups or whatever.
Ictinus said: It's still the plan to offer free swaps when the third and final production skill is released. We won't want anyone feeling like they can't take up farming (or mining), or (redacted) because of something in the future.
Ictinus said: I'm not very familiar with pack stuff yet except a very rudimentary understanding. But I always prefer to fix and iterate rather than removing something, so anything that happens there is likely to be in that vein.
Ictinus said: And 3, unfortunately isn't possible for a variety of reasons.
Ehtias said: Okie doke thanks.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Sarran asks if bringing someone from another game will impact policy and decisions, tensions between admin/players, the gap between PvP skill tiers, and if Icky is an ok nickname
Sarran said: I have three and a half questions. I'll start with the hardest one just to make you sweat!
Sarran said: First, do you think that bringing in someone from another game instead of promoting from within or drawing the change out over time will have an impact on policy decisions and stances that have a subjective component? Especially if you plan to shoulder largely administrative responsibilities, which most often involve those kinds of things. One easy example might be the handling of issues (though I don't know if that's something you would take over, just an example), or harkening back to Saidenn's questions about org requests. There are written rules, and then there is what people expect to be enforced or dismissed.
Sarran said: Do you foresee any significant shift in the tone or substance of decisions like that, and if so, will there be any measures to give people time to adjust or acclimate and/or very clear communication on those things prior to enforcement? Since this answer might be lengthy and my other questions equally so, should I hold onto the other questions or ask them now?
Ictinus said: While I draw up some answers for you, feel free to hit me with the third question.
Ictinus said: Or the other questions I should say.
Sarran said: Okay, question two: As an outsider looking in, the #1 recurring theme I've heard in web chat is variations of this conflict or that between this player and that admin (or variants like grumping about issue decisions, perceived favoritism, etc etc). Not like all the time, but it's notable. I know that was one of the things mentioned in your news post, or at least I assume it's related. I was wondering if you could be more specific about what you perceive the core or root issue/cause of that tension to be, and maybe some broad stroke insight into fledgling plans to address it, and finally what we as players can do to help?
Sarran said: Third, tangentially related to the recurring discussion about sect - I came in very interested in PvP, but have quickly hit a point where I don't feel like I have any mechanics or outlet to participate in that entire aspect of the game, literally at all, at my current level of skill/investment. Without some sort of segregated tier system in sect, I only ever really fight the highest end players who are deeply competitive. At leylines, my contribution is generally just follow the right person and hit with what they say - I'm strong enough to be noticed and targeted, but not strong or experienced enough to really participate meaningfully. In arena events, my only hope of competing meaningfully is to avoid the sect-going crowd and try to find others.
Sarran said: Do you collectively up in the Pools consider this yawning chasm between upper and lower tier PvP as an issue, and is there any interest in doing something to address it if suggestions are made, or even possibly some ideas already kicking around up there? If so, what broad level of priority would you say it is?
Sarran said: Finally, my friends suggested ending on something light if I'm nervous so I was wondering if we can call you Icky for short?
Sarran said: ...okay go?
Ictinus said: I think it's unavoidable that there will be a shift in tone and policy decisions on a broad scale. Teething problems here are inevitable, but I can at least reassure you that I have significant experience in this sort of thing, and I'm not looking to completely upset the apple cart when it comes to issue resolutions, language rule enforcements, or really anything at all without going over the established standard and taking it into account.
Sarran said: I understand, that makes sense.
Ictinus said: I can also say definitively that any updates to policy or rules, particularly of an ooc nature dealing with the actual administration concerns, will always be announced in advance outside of extreme cases.
Ictinus said: Assuming that you mean my remarks about healing the divide between the admin and the playerbase, my impression here is that communication has been lacking, there's been inconsistency, and above all an almost hostile attitude projected from the admin side onto you. I hope that just these few hours have put to bed any concerns about that continuing.
Sarran said: Most importantly, what can we as players do to help in fixing this issue?
Ictinus said: The obvious answer is to keep feedback constructive. It's easy for me to say that, but I'm not sure there is really a silver bullet here other than establishing a standard of mutual respect.
Sarran emoted: emote nods
Ictinus said: Closing the gap between the top tier and the lower tier in PK context is tangentially on the radar. Lowering the barrier to entry at least I think is almost always good where possible, but we have to be very careful here in what we're able to do.
Ictinus said: As far as I can tell though, there are some city clans with dueling opportunities for practice to get some experience in before stepping uo tp the plate and joining the Sect.
Ictinus said: That being said I am also a huge believer in a strong 1 v 1 culture, so I hope that there's more we can do to promote that and create more desire in the future.
Sarran said: Do you think that something that forces players to choose a tier to fight at might be a possible solution? For example, if each season in sect you had to select bronze/silver/gold and the rewards scaled on your choice, so that the most competitive people might pick the higher ones?
Sarran said: That might help to create a space for mid-tier people to play together in.
Ictinus said: To be determined. I have some thoughts, and I know Keroc has some ideas, but nothing concrete yet.
Sarran said: I understand.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Scandland asks what Ictinus' plan is to avoid producer burn out
Scandland said: I know you're taking on a lot of responsibility here. The last thing we want to see is another producer burnt out. What's your plan to avoid that? How can we be sure that a few years down the road, we're not having this same scenario again? Also, thank you for doing this for us. Aetolia means a lot to us all, and from what I've seen so far, you're gonna do great.
Scandland said: Also, holler if you ever want to take a break. Scandland would love to have you over for tea or wine.
Scandland said: That's all!
Ictinus said: Great question. Proper scheduling and time management will be the key I think. Not biting off more than I can chew. Not making impossible promises.
Ictinus said: Maybe sleeping now and then.
Ictinus emoted: grin
Raah said: We're going to make this man sleep more.
Scandland said: Good, good! I just wanted to make sure.
Ictinus said: And really just more collaboration. I don't want either myself or the team to be in a position where any of us is completely buried and unable to get help to ease the burden.
Ictinus said: From what I've seen so far these guys are insane, so I'm not worried about having enough support.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Illidan asks about the level 200 plans
Illidan said: What are the plans for level 200 events going forward? Some players are concerned that there will be a cutoff period? Will there be, and do you have an idea of what that is?
Illidan said: When, too.
Ictinus said: I think the reality here is that it's not sustainable or realistic for us to keep making new level 200 classes as more and more people reach that goal. We've already been talking about some ways to best address this in an elegant manner, but that's still at a design/ideas stage for the time being.
Illidan said: The other I had was more closely related to lore regarding the Shamans, but I won't bother you with that one.
Illidan said: That's it!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Damonicus asks about Indorani newbies and more info on mirror Luminary
Damonicus said: Due to the abrupt removal of the Indorani guild to accommodate the 3 guild per city system. Players are still given an option to create a character with this class set. While they currently come into Bloodloch, they are only able to get the proper class information if an individual from the guild prior or one that is in the former guilds main clan is online. Can we get those that graduate from the Academy be automatically added to the Children clan so we can give them a bit better direction at no cost to the player due to no guild support, or perhaps more in depth help files given during the academy to assist with. It seems the turnover rate for Indorani novices is high and would like to fix that. Annnd what guild is getting Mirror Luminary??
Ictinus said: Okay, firstly I think I should clarify that while Indorani being removed did satisfy that three guild per city rule, it was not the motivating reason behind their deletion.
Ictinus said: And I agree completely that the newbie experience needs to be better. I'm told Wayfarer has a similar problem. It's going on the list to come up with an answer for, but I'm absolutely pro-improvement there.
Ictinus said: Any more info on mirror Luminary will have to remain a mystery for now!
Damonicus said: Oh well, can't blame me for trying. Thanks!
Ictinus said: It was a good effort!
Ictinus emoted: thank
2
Comments
Kanivara said: So I also have a honking paragraph... those that know me, go figure eh? First: Circling back to the statement regarding big projects being a collaborative effort, you did sorta answer this already. We have mortal builders here, and the last time I saw any projects up was back when I and a couple others wrote the Warden class RP zone thing with the three animal clans and such. Will you be using the builders more in these projects for things like flavor text and such (Revenant has no skill learning messages, last I saw) or will we continued to be relegated to the shelf where we're pulled out once in a while? Second: What are your plans regarding problematic players that, for example, issue frivolously every time they see someone they dislike in a room with someone who's tangentially in their circle, or use IC means to bully people who tell them to back off OOC? Both things have happened under Tiur and were not dealt with in a way that discouraged their problematic behavior. It's understandable if you're essentially giving people a clean slate starting now, since you have no idea what they're like, but I'd like to know what would happen once they're on your radar.
Kanivara said: Third: Are the cities ever going to get their delayed prizes from the Celebration of the Stars and other events like... Sweet Lady Artemis I can't even remember how long ago it was now. I think it was the 450 one? It's been so long that I literally can't remember when it was. Spinesreach was supposed to get two new arena events and only got one, every city was supposed to get access eventually to Duiran's prizes from one of those, none of the cultural locations we worked hard on to build to showcase our cities was ever put in, the stuff from the Liruma War never happened... To me, this is the kind of thing that really burns the foundation from beneath creativity. I want to make things for the game, even if it's personal designs for ancillary RP, but when I sit down to do it I just get this overwhelming sense of 'why bother, it's not worth the energy'. And fourth: What's the plan for people who act with egregious levels of negativity during events? There's always a group that gets this way during a conflict between tethers that involves RP or more than just the usual group of PKers getting involved, and it's usually never the same offenders. This sort of thing is rather detrimental, overall, to the morale of both sides of the tether gap. Shadow doesn't want to deal with Spirit being super negative over Shadow winning, and vice versa. 'oh god another conflict, is going to like usual' isn't a good feeling, you know?
Kanivara said: And fifth: Are you doing away with Tiur's egregious apparent policies of 'rules for thee but not for ye' type suchlike, where for an example that did happen he'd let a Spirit player do something obnoxious like secret elemental orbs from the Orrery to people and kill them for ages but the minute a Shadow player did it the character was peaced and the ability to do that removed? Yes, there were complaints about the behavior when Spirit Person was doing it. The perceived favoritism really isn't, examples like that are pretty common.
Ictinus said: I will definitely be using builders more once I have a better idea of what's on the slab, what's not finished, what's planned, etc.
Ictinus said: And in an ideal world all of those things, including HELP RP where possible, should be done before release.
Ictinus said: 2: I'm not going to comment on specific behaviours or whatnot here, but broadly I can say that I have a somewhat low tolerance for frivolous issuing. I'll need to really get some more experience there, but my philosophy has always been that issuing is an absolute last resort when other resolution has failed.
Ictinus said: Except obviously in cases where the problem is wholly OOC in nature.
Ictinus said: I was under the impression that there were already two arena events set up as a prize there. But I may be mistaken. I'll need to look into the Duiran specific one.
Ictinus said: The cultural showcases have been going in this week already, courtesy of the wonderful Ra'ah.
Kanivara said: It's possible I'm mistaken as well, I only know of one but could have missed or forgotten the other.
Ictinus said: And the big one, the Proxy War...
Ictinus said: I may as well get this out of the way now as well. I've done a lot of reading on this event and have reached out to a few people for details on the rewards, and we'll be coming up with an elegant way to get these released as soon as is realistic.
Ictinus said: I also think it's important to mention that player agency in events like that is of major importance. Communication too, especially when we may be trialling a new mechanic that has teething problems and needs to be changed after the event has already begun.
Ictinus said: I think that somewhat answers your question about negativity as well. There are always going to be parts of an event that some people dislike. We just need to do the best we can to make sure things run smoothly and that we account for potential big red flags.
Ictinus said: I know a lot of people had hurt feelings over how the Proxy War was handled by the admin communication wise. If you want to reach out to me about that at all and discuss concerns for the future, I'm happy to talk.
Ictinus said: And lastly, I definitely aim to as consistent as possible on rules and their application.
Kanivara said: Thanks, your answers are appreciated.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Legyn comments on PvP and asks about encouraging player-driven roleplay
Legyn said: I have a comment and a question, which I am currently typing.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Legyn said: Comment: I love the basic structure for PvP. I quit Imperian cold-turkey over a decade ago in part because of the largely unregulated PK environment. When nostalgia kicked in last year and I decided to take a look at what Aetolia was doing, foci battles were one of the main reasons why I decided to stick around. Having a defined, mostly impersonal structure made me feel less hesitant about getting into PK, and because foci are group-based, it was easy to contribute, which encouraged me to invest more time, effort, and money into learning combat. There are some valid criticisms of the Sect and such, but I love the underlying structure of the Sect, the Hunting Grounds, Major and Lesser Foci, and the new Twin Foci. I don't like the Vortex and the Fracture as much, but that's purely a matter of personal taste. I would love to see those systems utilized to provide organizational rewards and benefits to Guilds and Cities while providing arenas for 1v1/2v2/group combat.
Legyn said: Question: One of things I've been procrastinating on for various reasons (I'M SORRY SAIDENN PLEASE DON'T FIRE ME) is encouraging player-driven roleplay, either of a more personal nature or in low-level areas of game lore that aren't likely to step on any larger events or aspects of the lore. The interpersonal stuff can happen on its own, but player agency has hard limits that can make organizational roleplay difficult unless everyone involved agrees with "fiat" declaration. For example, Archivists are supposed to deal with weird, dangerous things, but that's not really something players can do. In-character, I can use the Crafting system to make items that are magical in a superstitious sense, but I can't make items that are literally magical, even in a purely cosmetic sense, or perform magical rituals without the assistance of a Celani. What do you think you could do to help org leaders with that sort of thing and in the same vein, is there anything org leaders can do to support large events or long-term roleplay and lore?
Ictinus said: I think more efficient handling of orgreqs will probably have the biggest short term impact on your/an org's ability to get support for RP related things that you want to achieve and move forward. I'm definitely a big fan of player-driven storylines and want to do as much as I can to help support those as much as possible.
Ictinus said: One of the biggest thing that org leaders can do is have ideas and not be scared to pick something and run with it, failure be damned. I know that some of my best experiences from Achaea have been seeing people crop up talking to a denizen or kicking something off completely out of the blue and seeing how far we can enable it and let it snowball.
Ictinus said: Hopefully the team agrees on that one!
Legyn emoted: emote nods. "I'll keep an eye on orgreqs moving forward then."
Legyn said: I'll keep an eye on orgreqs moving forward then.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Ictinus emoted: thank
Aeryx asks about making more consequences from events
Aeryx said: Some of the previous questions have sort of had a tinge of my own here, but I'm going to paste it anyways.
Aeryx said: I would like to ask about the idea of stakes, and consequences, as it's something that fascinates me and we've talked about it on the stream before. We live in a world in Aetolia, where there seems to usually be very little to lose, or to win for that matter. There seems to be very little consequences, and it largely leads to complacency and a very ho-hum do your dailies, go to your unimportant and usually unfun group combat things, and then idle or log off type of game. Do you have any, hm, sympathy towards the idea of making new content that actually makes a difference or brings any sort of real tension back to the game?
Ictinus said: I am definitely interested in high stakes events with big consequences and rippling effects that actually matter.
Ictinus said: The amount that players can materially affect the world is always going to be a difficult one, but as part of the broader plan for making RP, storytelling, events, and immersion my #1 focus for Aetolia, you can expect me to be open to a lot of options.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Roux asks about increase usage of RP tools (RPWHO, anonymous RP), giving org leaders item creating powers, an unfinished Illuminai classlead, and if new lore is being worked upon
Roux said: Question 1. I have a question/suggestion about various RP resources that we have. There is RPWHO, and the anonymous RP rooms come to mind right off the top, and these are tools that exist that are rarely used. There's no help file that I know of for the anonymous RP rooms, so you have to search for the news posting to not only find the information outright, but also the location to get the amulets, assuming you know about it or remember. Any new players won't have access to that information, it's lost in the news for them. Can we have some central help file that is updated that includes all of the various RP tools we have available? HELP RP exists, maybe add the rest of the information there and direct people to it somehow. These great tools exist and aren't used once they pass out of the public eye. More avenues for influencing and encouraging RP will always be good and to that end - being able to add an oragnization entirely to that list could be interesting. Echoing earlier remarks, cross-tether and cross-guild RP opportunities would be grrreat.
Roux said: Question 2. Legyn touched on this, but I already had it written and I wanted to expand upon it. We have several new/additional Celani to help with moving things along for orgreqs and the like, and so far that's been great, however is there any possibility that city and guild leaders might be empowered with small creative powers? I'm talking about... maybe I need a single 'magic' item in my guildhall and a whole orgreq seems like overkill but I can't create it through the regular crafting queues because, well, it's 'magic' and that goes against purely mortal crafting rules. I hesitate to suggest a different queue because it's just something else to watch, and I'm not sure how this might be accomplished but, maybe we could have some ideas thrown around behind the scenes for a solution? Maybe something that could be added that ties into guild funds for purchasing building additions. Ultimately I feel like leaders should have a little more ability to push or build things for their guilds.
Roux said: Question 3. The Illuminai had a class lead approved a while back for a flavor skill that was important to some of the forward momentum I'm trying to build within the guild. It's been attached to active orgreqs already to bring attention to it again, and it sounds like a few different approved changes for other guilds haven't been finished yet either. Just wondering if there's any light on the horizon for these or should I just email the Illuminai one as well?
Roux said: Question 4 is short! How much focus is being placed on new and developing lore? With all of the efforts on the mirrors and mining etc, where does the lore fall in the scheme of where the work resources are being allocated?
Roux said: Sorry if some of these skim other related topics that have been discussed, that's all from me!
Ictinus said: On 1, I've already brought up the lack of help for the anonymous RP feature, and even have some ideas of how to increase interest in it for the future. We'll be making a help for it, and better documentation is something I want in general.
Ictinus said: We don't have any plans to expand hard mechanical options for leaders to create, but as I've already said, streamlining this process to make it as painless as possible is one of my major priorities.
Ictinus said: If you can email me the details on the Illuminai, I'll look into it. But yes, there is light on the horizon for sure. The backlog will be cleared.
Ictinus said: New lore is being written all the time, even in the five short days I've been here. The problem has been that so little of it has made it into the hands of players largely due to a lack of event driven storyline content to release it. Expect a lot more on that!
Roux said: Alright, that sounds good. Looking forward to hearing what comes out of you guys.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Ictinus emoted: smile
Iesid asks what's on Ictinus' radar (besides mirrors, mining), what Ictinus thinks Aetolia is missing, and what Ictinus liked when he was a player
Iesid said: 1. My first question has to do with things you have noticed and the things on your radar. You have mentioned some big hits/looming projects - mirrors, mining - but what are some other things on that list or on your radar that you are comfortable mentioning to us?
Iesid said: 2. My second question has to do with what you see personally as a producer - you've talked a lot about repairing community good will, etc... but is there something you think Aetolia is missing or maybe an idea you already have that you are excited about trying out once the dust settles?
Ictinus said: The 20th anniversary and year 500 are both on my radar as big things.
Ictinus said: We've already started some conversations there.
Ictinus said: On your second question, I'm really still in the very early stages of getting familiar with all of the new systems, but even from what I've already seen I have a bunch of ideas forming.
Ictinus said: None of which are anything more than nebulous thoughts swirling around at the moment.
Iesid said: Oh, lastly - was there any particular system Aetolia had at the time that you were enthused about as a player?
Ictinus said: Ylem and research were both quite new when I was a player. And there were some particularly entertaining PK tricks that are seared into my memory.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Eaku asks about events that engage more of the community
Eaku said: This is kind of building off of a previous question. Should we expect to see more events keyed towards trying to engage more members of the community? I ask because a common thread I've seen brought up is other players not feeling like they can participate in events due to things like timezone issues (I think we've seen more variation in event times lately, which is nice) or their character being unrelated to the main orgs involved. I'm of course not saying that events shouldn't have narrow focuses (there are several more narrow events I'd love to see), I'm just curious if you'd had a chance to form an opinion about this sort of thing yet, or if you've tackled similar issues during your time in Achaea.
Ictinus said: I definitely want to do more to cater to timezones other than the main US prime zone. I am from the UK so I am very familiar with how that feels.
Ictinus said: This is one of those things where there's never going to be a perfect solution for everyone, but we can definitely do better there.
Eaku said: Gotcha, that makes sense. Glad it's on the radar. Thanks!
Ictinus said: I think the general rule of thumb for inclusivity is that if you see a denizen shout, or a game-wide emote, that's an invitation to at least check out what's going on.
Ictinus said: If it is something that's intended as org-only or otherwise exclusive, that can be made clear by those involved, it's also an opportunity for some interaction and RP. Bu.
Ictinus said: Oops.
Ictinus said: But on the same note, I understand not wanting to have others muscle in on org-specific events. I think really just having more opportunities to engage with things will help a LOT in that regard.
Eaku said: That also makes sense. I'll look forward to upcoming things, then.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Ictinus emoted: thank
Rhyot asks about dealing with event backlash, giving cities passive gold income back, the possibility of resetting city ylem totals, artifacts bought with milestones not counting towards retirement, Kobold language, El'Jazira comm shop
Rhyot said: Feel free to zap me after this...
Rhyot said: 1) You recently mentioned that you have a big stance on PK and conflict oriented systems, along with generic organic conflict/RP-centric conflict. Aetolia has a deep history of wanting to have said types of conflict, but then complain about those same types of conflict. To such an extent, that players will go to forums to gripe about it to get results of change or even start mass emailing the admins in order to force their hand to stop some sort of conflict. How do you intend on stopping such inappropriate, erratic, and negative behavior of individuals wanting to stop organic conflict when dealing with those same individuals that might call for your immediate action to stop said conflict? To further tie this in line with your commentary about allowing high stakes consequences, how are you going to stop the playerbase from bashing you or any member of your team because the outcome that was produced was not admirable to what they (the players) were wanting? It's okay to have high stakes consequences, but the playerbase doesn't have the best history with accepting those consequences if it directly affects them in a negative manner.
Rhyot said: 2) People like getting rewards for their participation in various aspects of the game, especially when it comes to combat oriented tasks. The problem is, cities have a very limited resource pool to pull from: Credits and gold. Credits are -only- obtained through people either spending RL money on them and the city getting a portion of that or a player donating credits (of which they spent RL money getting). Gold is obtained through either swapping player hands to the city or fulfilling ylem quotas. In either situation, you have a limited resource pool that is ever diminishing and ever restrictive. A long time ago, cities had a form of interest build up for their citizens so as to accrue gold per IC year (now would be per IC season). Is there any chance of implementing such a thing so that cities could have a near limitless pool of resources to offer incentivization of activities (both credits and gold)?
Rhyot said: 3) Foci combat is generally seen as pointless, and has been generally stated for years that people only go to it because it's the only form of base combat/conflict/incentivized concept that they go to. However, at the same time, everyone still agrees it's pointless. As it stands, if every city decided to forego ALL foci combat they would still be able to use all their ylem functions for literal RL years before coming close to zero. This alone makes foci combat less stringent. Is there any chance of possibly instituting a reset of ylem every so often (probably once/RL year) so as to put a bit more emphasis on ylem gathering/foci combat than it currently has?
Rhyot said: 4) This is more of a question for clarification because I cannot find the answer anywhere and I am unsure of it.... but do artifacts bought with milestone credits count towards your retirement value still or is there some sort of flag that stops those numbers from adding up? I ask because I bought a few extra runes and I do not recall my retirement value increasing, but maybe it did and I just don't know it?
Rhyot said: 5) There are some languages, like Kobold, that don't have a trainer or any other alternative method of obtaining. Will this be rectified at any point in time? Also, when is El'jazira going to be fixed where the shops/village comm shop is opened again?
Rhyot said: 6) This is for the players... but can all of you PLEASE for the love of gods... PAUSE your bloody systems or turn off all your triggers/scripts. I'm tired of reading your defup and spam lines in this. Thank you!
Rhyot said: Ok. Go.
Ictinus said: On 1, I think that that goes back to what I said earlier about sticking to a stance once you've decided on a direction. I'm not sure there's a lot more to be said there other than I have plenty of experience with this sort of thing and am well versed in handling it.
Ictinus said: 2, I think this comes in line with my wanting to do more of a review on how the game economy looks before I can say one way or the other. In general though I'm not keen on passive gold generation, but I'm open to lowering the bar of entry for participation in game systems as a whole.
Ictinus said: 3 is something I will also need to look into in some more depth. Any steps taken there (if we do decide to take any) will need to be done extremely carefully.
Ictinus said: On 4, it's my understanding that only real-purchases count towards retirement. That is an IRE level policy decision.
Ictinus said: The short answer is yes on the language tutors, which is now on my list. And the El'Jazira commshop is something we'll address.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Tina asks about Chaos plane conflict/the Ashes faction
Tina said: Since the start of this game, as is typical of high fantasy, evil necromancers played a big role in the lore and conflict systems. Age of despair, landmarking, etc. Occultists, Indorani, Cabalists, Infernals, whatever you wanted to call them. Personally I've always enjoyed this avenue of conflict. This continued in some way till the deletion of said organizations, but there was a base laid down to continue it in the form of faction wars to to control the chaos plane. Mainly one based in Chakrasul's side, and one based in Omei's, that would generate conflict, have missions, and reward people for helping each side. Is this still in the works in some form, or continuing the longstanding necromancer conflict in another form, or are we just gonna have to settle for what we have so far in the kinda done Ashes faction?
Ictinus said: Okay, it sounds like this was really borne of a passion project by the Celani of the time. I'm open to them picking it up again if they want to, but it's not something that we plan to devote official dev time to.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Keroc is a dunce and accidentally entered the queue
Razmael emoted: listen
Keroc said: Uh.
Brax emoted: emote peers at $Keroc
Ictinus emoted: peer
Raah said: Make it good or you're fired.
Keroc said: Can you make me a dunce hat for messing up my commands?
Ictinus said: Yes.
Atalkez offers support for Ictinus as an Achaean player, and asks if Ictinus will troll him here too
Atalkez said: I really don't have too much of a question but I will end with one to adhere to the spirit of the evening. I mainly wanted to take a minute to support Ictinus and offer my own words to the rest of you about who he is and what he's done for me, and for Achaea. I've played with Ictinus as my mini producer for several years, and have nothing but positive things that I can say about my experience. If you don't know me, that's fine, but in Achaea I am all over the PK and PvE scene. If there is an honours mob, I fight it. If there is a mechanic to be uncovered, I work it out. I know a thing or two about working with divine/celani/producers to see positive changes implemented for the betterment of the game. I'm in the test group, and the combat council for behind the scenes changes and all of that. Ictinus has always been the person to receive my feedback, and many times has implemented changes directly based on what I've seen to make the experience better for other players. When forays were released in Achaea, I was one of the first people to throw myself face first into the big bads to figure out all of the mechanics and he was right by my side, watching to make sure things were working properly in what I know was an all nighter for him. When Yggdrasil was released, it was the same thing. Every mechanical update that's been positive in Achaea in the last 5 years, Ictinus has had his hand in it either brainstorm, designing or building it. So while I'm happy for him in his promotion, I am also sad to see him go but more than anything I am excited to see what he can do for you all here. I know your experience is going to be as good, if not better, than mine - just give him a chance. And for the love of all that exists, please don't call him Icky. We called him Icty, in Achaea, and while you don't have to use the same one Icky is just tragic. Don't do my man that way.
Atalkez said: If I come play are you going to make sure I get trolled as much here as I do on Achaea?
Keroc emoted: snicker
Ictinus emoted: thank
Ictinus said: Yes.
Raah said: I'm #AntiIcky too.
Chassity asks about farkle updates, new reasons for leveling, Aetolia vs Achaea's automation policies, orgreqs, and bringing back old guilds/classes
Chassity said: "Question: "A while back there was a news post about farkle getting some kind of update, either in general or about the rules. I remember it being posted by Ira, the Farkle attendant in the Vashnars. So far we've not seen anything come of this, to my knowledge. Are there any plans to move forward with this, or is it something that can be revisited?"
Chassity said: What is the plan moving forward for people that have already passed that point where leveling up doesn't mean much more than a new class and and worthless points.
Chassity said: Thank you again for hearing me, more questions have spawned that i feel pertinent to ask one being I took a look at Achaea the same week that Tiur was being removed and the Week you were being here and something I noticed there that is competely different here. One of those is automation! in Achaea there was virtually no automation allowed where as for here in Aetolia automation has been allowed on the basis that you damned well better respond if spoken to by a divine or another if you are running an automated route. Are you planning to remove or limit the right to automate?
Chassity said: You talk about orgreqs and people being willing to not be scared and pickup and run with it. The problem is past experiences have told the orginizational leaders that these things are one of three things A not going to happen because they don't go with the lore of the way aetolia is going, B we will look into it and get back to you and either gets back to them, with a thats not plausible at this time or we are working on it. and lastly C that was easy enough to fix its been fixed there ya go don't hesistate to ask again (least likely to happen in past experiences).
Chassity said: Sorry lots of questions i know.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Chassity said: And the last question i have been really contemplating was is there any chance of bringing back old guilds or at least some of the skill sets.
Ictinus said: No immediate plans on the level up situation, but if a great idea comes up I'm always open to new things. More incentives for bashing etc are included in that possibility.
Ictinus said: Achaea's automation rules largely seem the same re: paying attention. I don't foresee much of a culture shift on that front.
Chassity said: Wow ok there it was made very clear no automation of any kind allowed except for some rp.
Ictinus said: I think keeping ideas lore-friendly is still important, but there's an incredible amount that can be done within that scope for org leaders that doesn't involve creating things that don't fit. That's why making more efficient policies to answer queries is so important.
Ictinus said: There are no plans to bring back old guilds or skills. I actually really like how Aetolia has taken on its own identity and direction from the legacy association with Achaea, and hope to continue that.
Chassity said: Damn I really wanted to see priest stuffs.
Ictinus said: And lastly as a follow up, the recent updates to automation policy in Achaea largely revolve around things that allow you to essentially play other people's characters and cause an unreasonable amount of combat spam. Again, I don't think there's much of a shift to be made here.
Chassity said: I think a lot of people do or have expressed interest in it.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Phoenecia asks about more player impact upon the world
Phoenecia said: My question got touched on a little, but I'll field it anyway. For a long time, playing a character in Aetolia has felt like a futile effort. Very little you do has an impact on things in the game world, and at times it's felt like even guilds and cities can affect very little. I know this has affected a lot of players on different levels, but it's affected some enough that they've either migrated to other games or are in the process of looking. The game feels dead and the world itself feels dead and static. Meanwhile, I've seen other places that manage to pull off living worlds massively better to the point where players have nearly accidentally destroyed the world because they botched something seemingly tiny, or they get flung somewhere unexpected because several different unexpected things converged at once. Do you have any ideas for how to make Aetolia as a world feel more alive or more capable of being influenced by players? Or do you feel like having the world be more static is just a reality players have to accept in a text game where there's a limited number of staff that can oversee things?
Ictinus said: From what I've seen already this week, the Celani team are doing a huge amount of heavy lifting there as regards to the world feeling alive. I'm keen on supporting them as much as I can to take that even further, especially when it comes to overarching story and Big Things.
Phoenecia said: To put it more simply, it's next to impossible for a 'Fireball Incident' to happen in Aetolia. Outside of maybe what happened to the Indorani guild kind of qualifying.
Ictinus said: In terms of impact, I think managing expectations there is important. There are tons of small things that can be done to impact the world, be it updated denizen reactions to your actions, inspiring permanent additions, etc, the list is huge. But large impacts are always going to be extremely rare. The integrity of the world has to remain intact on some level.
Phoenecia said: Smaller impacts on things was what I was after. Thank you.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Ictinus emoted: thank
Rebra asks about harrassment
Rebra said: Thank you very much for being here and answering all our questions. I appreciate your time and the time of all the staff and volunteers. Each of you do hard work, and have created many beautiful things in your passion, and that is something I truly, truly appreciate.
Rebra said: I am someone who basically stopped playing Aetolia regularly about nine months ago because I no longer felt safe playing the game, after more than a year of throwing myself into the game and trying to come to terms with what felt like an extremely abrasive and sometimes OOCly abusive player culture in Aetolia - or rather, player culture on the shadow tether, as that is where I spent most of my time; I can't speak as much to the spirit tether. I will not go in more specifics of the difficulties I experienced and the personal consequences of them, as that is probably better addressed elsewhere. But I do want to ask a couple questions as relates to this topic, if that's okay!
Rebra said: 1) Have you been apprised of existing concerns about how players treat one another OOCly, and the perception, even if not true, that nothing can be done about maltreatment aside from 'ignore'? For example, behaviour in Webs (particularly those that tend to be used for social groups but also double up for combat coordination and so feel semi-required), clans, Discord servers, and sometimes even forums threads where it has felt there has been minimal to no admin oversight. (And I recognise this may not actually be the case, but it has sometimes felt that way, and I appreciate any moderators or Alecto-shell-users who have stepped in to help enforce existing rules.)
Rebra said: 2) Do you have any plans to nudge player culture to one that feels safer and kinder to one another on an OOC basis? I know you don't have a lot of control over what we as players do to one another. There is definitely a community responsibility component to this. But I wonder what little things from the admin side might happen to help former regular players like me feel safe enough again to log on and engage, and feel like we can enjoy the game again and have a recourse when suffering or witnessing abuse?
Ictinus said: Okay, on the whole I want to make it clear that I have zero tolerance for harassment, and that anything happening in the game is logged and easily retrievable to investigate and take action on as appropriate.
Ictinus said: That said, I think this is a conversation that we should have in private. If you'd like to reach out to me to do that, you are absolutely welcome to.
Rebra said: Okay. Thank you.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Pietre asks about making the game learning curve better, player lore submissions, and puzzle cube bugs
Pietre said: Welcome, Ictinus, and thank you for your effort and attention to the populous as an introduction to your administration. I have a few questions.
Pietre said: FIrstly: This is my first time playing a MUD, and I have only been playing it for a few months; I've heard that it's rare for a wholly new player to join any of these types of games. Frankly, if I didn't have a team of friends helping me with literally everything, I would have left in five minutes due to how inaccessible and non-intuitive it is. The game demands a lot in terms of coding, background knowledge and has you trying to join decade-old social cliques. Are you aware of this issue, and are there any plans about how to retain new membership from non-IRE players, or make this learning curve more palatable?
Pietre said: Secondly, on the note of friends, the friends that I have have been working with the past admins on flushing out lore and culture for the Djeirani, and I myself have been working to build a cultural background for El'Jazira. How can these endeavors be properly presented to the administration for adoption into canon?
Pietre said: Thirdly, have Puzzle Cubes Been Fixed? I got impossible combinations last time I tried them.
Pietre said: That is all, good sir.
Ictinus said: I am always open to making the newbie experience better. I am aware of this issue as a whole, though the Aetolia specific problems are something I need to spend some more time figuring out.
Pietre said: I would be willing to share a list of my particular struggles, if that would be of any assistance.
Pietre said: Via e-mail, of course, not here and now. Time is precious...but I can guarantee, it's Aetolia-specific.
Ictinus said: El'Jazira does have a lot of history that has been derailed a bit in the wake of events over the last year or so. It's still a vassal state of Bloodloch and the plan is for it to be rebuilt with heavy input from players, but it will still retain a BL-centric theme and a large amount of that input will involve Bloodloch primarily.
Ictinus said: Similarly to Djeir with its fairly extensive lore and history that already exists. One of the problems with player-created lore submissions is the (unavoidable) disconnect from things that may already be in the works or already 'canon' but awaiting release. Changes like that from the player side are usually driven through IC event participation, more than a focused effort at actually developing something new.
Ictinus said: Puzzle cubes may be waiting for a particularly ambitious volunteer to decipher and fix.
Ictinus said: I'll have a look into it but it's a much bigger issue than it seems on the surface.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Azarae asks if people can contribute ideas for level 200 classes
Azarae said: In regards to the level 200 classes and there being a limit, currently there are 2 shadow, 1 neutral, and one Ankyrean/Mazz only (correct me if I am wrong). Are there any plans for like a thread being made on the forums where people can input ideas and a poll to vote on what people would like to see implimented since there is a finite amount? Also thank you for your time and holding this town hall meeting, it has been quite long.
Ictinus said: We're still really in the early stages of figuring out what this is going to look like, but a defining part of the 200 class experience is working with those who get there first and them having a hand in shaping it. Any broader feedback and input will depend on how our plans end up looking, but if there is scope for suggestions, then we'll definitely consider it.
Azarae said: Thank you.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Pazradym asks if more townhalls will be held, and if there can be an unqueue command for them
Pazradym said: I am pretty sure most of my main questions have been touched on at this point, so I will just add to the saying of welcome and thanks for doing this townhall. I will ask though is it something you see doing more of in the future? I think it is a great medium for dev/player interaction and would love to see more. Also, if yes, could we please get an "unqueue" command?
Ictinus said: An unqueue command is a great idea.
Razmael said: I'll code an unqueue for the next townhall.
Ictinus said: I'm open to doing more in the future as time allows, perhaps not at this length or detail, but maybe some more focused topics.
Pazradym said: That is awesome news all around, thanks!
Ictinus emoted: thank
Zenobia asks about milestones, org-owned artifacts, and factions
Zenobia said: Ok bear with me a few things to touch on that so far have not.
Zenobia said: So my first question is based on Milestones, as much has already been touched on. A) When brought out we were led to believe this would be a fluid thing and the rewards changing, this has not been seen, so the query is, shall this be happening such as, monthly or even seasonally and working with current events or such?
Zenobia said: Nother I have which I know, cities, guilds and mayhaps orders would find incredibly useful is ORG based artifacts. Say an org wants to invest in a Hammer, or fork or any such tool, could it be allowed and placed at an appropriate spot that those of the org would have access too? I mean orgs have credits and the concern of any gaining help from said org for work to be done is they can bugger off and 'that' org loses an asset. With introducing such a thing it has more benefits then draw backs as it is designated for said org and those in that org with the needed skills could use it.
Zenobia said: Last question is factions .. a lovely thing and I rather enjoy the work and rewards that come with said system. Issues that exist are, lack of follow up, completion of said factions to be or worse yet events that disrupt them. (Mitrine a great example). The question is can this be addressed and looked into as well as maybe a help file of existing factions ( if its tether related, defunct or how to trigger an introduction to them)? OOH and when it comes to the 'score' enemies list .. can we have help with a help file or such for folks to find or see, like IF enemied to .. here is the means to address that .. ie .. vnum and item or person to interact with. Thing is when some wake and find this all .. it would be so much easier to direct to a help file.
Zenobia said: ... As a side note... I want to say, even though Aetolia has had a rough patch, there are many including those present as admin I doff my cap to. Impromptu Farkle games, incredible moments of just personal time taking that is appreciated. I think you all are amazing even if at other points I shake a paw and 'rue' at other moments. Thank you all for keeping up and going on trying your best to ensure we all have a unique experience.
Ictinus said: I'm definitely not against making the milestone system better where there are gaps. I'm not sure about rotations or anything like that but I'll add it to the list to take a look over and see if there's any room for freshening up there.
Ictinus said: I already have a few ideas for room credits, so keep an eye out for news on those.
Ictinus said: I understand the desire for org-sharable artifacts, but it isn't something we have plans for at present.
Ictinus said: I like the idea of more easily referencing your enemy statuses and I think the faction problem is one that will solve itself with more organisation and follow through. I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if you saw, that the rewards for the Proxy War (since you used Mitrine as an example) are something I'll be looking at getting released as soon as I can.
Ictinus said: And lastly, thank you for the comments!
Zenobia said: Well example.
Zenobia said: I had done the faction thing for Mitrine way before the war .. there was glitching and I had been on a friendly status .. then due to the war .. and a shuffle of a new one added my status changed. I get it and all good .. but then ENEMY status stepped in and suddenly no access .. there ya go .. now I can't even touch it.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Ictinus said: We'll aim for some more consistency and accountability there.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Haelra (who is totally a normal mortal player and not a celani that accidentally queued) asks if Aetolia will have more dark/horror themes. Also catgirls.
Brax emoted: emote eyes $Haelra
Ictinus emoted: sigh
Haelra said: Hi! I am just a normal mortal player, queueing up normally and not because I tried to CHECK QUEUE and instead it PUT ME IN THE QUEUE. Anyways! Aetolia is advertised as more of a dark/horror genre and I think players feel there has not been a whole lot of that. Things have felt very tame or laid back. In fact in comparison to some of your events in Achaea - notably the occupation of Cyrene and the results when Cyrenians took it back after the flood (this is just my personal example) - it feels like we're not reaching our full potential or at the very least not being what's advertised. Are you hoping to bring elements like that back on a world scale for Aetolia and give us the go-ahead to be darker in our roleplaying endeavours?
Haelra said: 2) Razmael and I have heavily discussed the importance of catgirls in our society. He even has a running petition to get them in Aetolia. Please discuss.
Haelra said: 3) If not cat girls, would you think dog girls?
Haelra said: Okay, go.
Haelra said: Yes here you go.
Haelra said: Https://www.change.org/p/aetolia-llc-administration-bring-a-proper-catgirl-race-humans-with-cat-ears-and-tails-to-aetolia.
Haelra said: For reference.
Haelra said: Thank you.
Ictinus said: I don't have many things that are a definite 'no' when it comes to event stakes, fallout, consequences, and being willing to take risks and make bold moves.
Ictinus said: I think one of the big advantages Aetolia has over Achaea in that regard is that the atmosphere lends itself a lot more easily to those darker themes, so it's absolutely something I want to explore more.
Haelra emoted: nod
Ictinus said: No comment on the rest.
Razmael said: That's not a no.
Haelra said: Very excited where you lead us, I'm really happy you're over here.
Haelra said: Thank you for making the big step.
Haelra emoted: dab
Ictinus emoted: thumbsup
Bulrok asks Ictinus about his views on how RP and PK tie together
Bulrok said: I originally wanted to talk about Proxy War and the handling of it, and I'd still like to talk privately on that later, but I don't want to beat a dead horse so I came up with a new question - This might be difficult for people who have been around for a bit to believe, but I've always felt like PK was a tool used to enhance RP. If I wanted to be a bully and go beat up kids I'd download Call of Duty, not learn the ins and outs of an incredibly complex system and end up being proficient(ish) in two different programming languages to take advantage of the accumulated knowledge in said system. I learned to PK because of RP, and I continue to PK because I enjoy playing character archetypes who are more realistic to me because they can PK. Bulrok is a big strong minotaur and can smash peoples faces in etc. I'm just mostly curious on your own views of RP and PK. Do you think they're two sides of the same coin, a separate coin entirely, or the same face and players just create their own divide? Also, I'm totally down for dog girls. FMA style. I know Razmael is a huge fan of that series and specifically that part of the story. Also hi if Atalkez likes you even though you torture him I'm pretty excited you're here.
Ictinus said: I think that the best PK and conflict scenarios all come from RP. There's a lot to be said for how character defining something like a bitter rivalry or enmity or awkward, temporary alliance of necessity can be.
Ictinus said: RP should drive the PK, not the other way around.
Ictinus said: I was going to say more on this but it would probably get rambly. My door's open to talk about the Proxy War stuff though, feel free to reach out.
Bulrok said: I don't want to add to your workload by talking about things that you weren't involved in but I need some type of closure, so I might. SORRY IN ADVANCE.
Ictinus emoted: nod
Ictinus said: No problem! Happy to talk it over.
Ictinus emoted: thank
Sryaen said: Hi. Long-time player here of longer than I'd like to admit - And slightly piggybacking off Haelra's question - I've seen my fair share of producers over the years that Aetolia has evolved, and while I think it's amazing that not only the Achaean playerbase but Jeremy as well, have been hugely vocal in their praise of your work in Achaea; however, Aetolia is not Achaea 2.0. We have our own unique identity, one that I fear may have gotten a bit muddled over the past decade over the various hands that Producer has passed through. At its core, based on what you've seen, personally experienced or heard about our little corner of IRE, what do you think Aetolia is supposed to be? A gothic horror game? Is it truly the 'Midnight Age'? It's difficult to quantify what makes a game dark and gritty, when everyone has different viewpoints of it. And while it can be easy for one half of the game to engage in these things, it essentially leaves the other half of us in a permanent state of merely reacting to 'bad stuff'. Aetolia's atmosphere in terms of world events has been relatively stagnant as of late - and not to downplay any of what the Celani have been doing in terms of the cult of K, etc - but what sort of steps do you plan on taking to breathe some much needed life back into Aetolia? I'm hesitant to say it needs to be something drastic, because too big of ripples could have disastrous effects if not received well by the playerbase (who is passionately invested in the direction our game is going), but I'm of the opinion that something needs to happen and within a timely manner, because this game seemed to be in a state where no one was at the wheel. Smaller things may be the safest, but with how deprived Aetolians have been of big, meaty storyline arcs, we're going to be understandably ravenous for any sort of movement. Is it possible to have some sort of safe middle ground?
Ictinus said: The concern about Achaea 2.0 was something I considered extensively before even accepting this position. Achaea already exists. But it isn't Aetolia. I can also add that a lot of my experience here as a player informed numerous conversations about Achaea direction, so it's always been a bit of an inspiration.
Ictinus said: Gothic horror and labels in general I think are so subjective and nebulous that what that means to you and what it means to me could be completely different. I DO think that the last few years have been coloured by a feeling of being gun shy about digging into the more gritty aspects of that theme.
Ictinus said: I also think it's really important that in a two-faction world, that one side isn't constantly being served up disasters caused by the other and forced into a perpetual state of reacting rather than having their own proactive agendas.
Sryaen emoted: emote nods his head agreeably
Ictinus said: I'm not sure what those agendas look like, and I'm still too early in the orientation process to have any specific opinions on how orgs work on a cultural or identity level beyond the basics. But I'm certainly open to a lot of options when it comes to what you can do there.
Ictinus said: And I do think there is a 'safe' middle ground which largely comes from thinking things through properly. Starting small and working up to the big beats rather than springing something huge on people out of nowhere without care or forethought.
Ictinus said: Hope that helps there, sorry for the break in the middle while I thought about it some more.
Sryaen said: Awesome, thank you for the transparency. I'm eager to see what you have in store for us.
Ictinus emoted: thumbsup
Alystrine asks about harrassment
Alystrine said: Hello! This character might be new but I am certainly not. I have been playing since my Junior year of high school and all of that time had been spent on one character. In all of that time, I had been exposed to some of the most predatory that Aetolia had to offer, by way of OOC and IC actions. I am not here today to drag through names or blah blah blah. I am here to suggest or ask you this - Do you think it is possible to put into the Academy or whatever the Academy or new player intro morphs into a short blurb about the responsibility (this is the wrong word but I can't think of a good one) of reaching out if they feel unsafe and a specific help file about Harassment? ABSOLUTELY UNRELATED: Can someone look into why the bread you buy from any Cooking Comm shop can't cache? it's been a 15+ year mystery to me and honestly it's the same dang loaf anywhere you buy it, since it's the commodity. . .
Alystrine said: That's all thanks for all the thoughtful, well thought out answers and how considerate you're answering us all.
Ictinus said: I don't want to say yes or no on that, but I'll have a look at the options here and probably take a broader look at documentation as a whole.
Tahm asks if 'dead' can be added to GMCP, and the limits of a player house
Tahm said: My first question might net me a sweet fifty credits, so I'm asking it ahead of what I really want - can we get "dead" as a status in GMCP?
Tahm said: Secondly, this may be better as an email thing, but since we're all here - what is your stance on player housing being used for more than "a house"? Pretty much since I started playing Aetolia, I've been imagining some roleplay where my character slowly develops a "village" of sorts over time. An open air player house, where I fund the construction and inhabitants and it functions as a core component of my character's story. I don't know that I specifically am looking for any real administrative support other than a "yes, you can turn your house into a village if you want", but I am hoping that the thing itself turns into something that people will want to engage with, providing opportunities for individuals to have cross-factional roleplay beyond big, sprawling world events.
Tahm said: That's it. I had a third one but I deleted it on accident copying the first one and I don't want to think about what it was, it's late.
Ictinus said: I've asked Keroc to take a look at the gmcp status for dead. No promises.
Ictinus said: I think so long as what you do is within the scope of the housing system, that it is really up to you. I don't have any plans to really incentivise or support this insofar as new area designations or the like, but your estate is really yours to do with what you want, provided it remains within the established confines of Aetolia's world and lore.
Axius asks about the possibility of permadeath, nipple rings/PG13 rating, and steampunk/clockwork technology
Axius said: Ah, thank you. I admit, my questions are more off-the-cuff, so they're not as well thought out, but it does pertain to some topics people have mentioned during this. At least the first one is. There's often grumbling from players that death in the game doesn't really mean much, would you ever consider a mechanic involving permadeath, as I've heard our sister game, Starmourn, supposedly has? I imagine it might be a topic involving the latching it to the retirement system ultimately, with maybe interaction with the mirror being the final note that marks the character as "retired".. ahem. Anyways, would this be an item on the table for consideration, as a way to make death mean something, for those who want it to do so?
Axius said: The second comes from me as a crafter, in the past, Aetolia had a bit more tolerance for more.. ah.. well, the game may be PG13, but I was wondering if there were ever any plans to maybe relax the tight grip on certain items on the list that would expand the crafting kits of Jewelcrafters and Tailors, specifically the fact that thongs used to be allowed as craftables, but were banned sometime in the last.. nine-ish years? And I know that our sister game, Lusternia, also has nipple rings and piercings as an option, would those two, as example items, ever be allowed back on the table?
Ictinus said: I think permadeath has its place but I'm not sure it jives well in a world with a vast amount of established characters. It's currently being trialled in Starmourn, but any decision or direction there would need to be an IRE level thing.
Axius emoted: emote nods slightly to himself, "I understand."
Axius said: I understand.
Axius said: Oh! and because some are asking me to mention to add to my second question, would we ever be allowed to approach steam power and clockwork, since Delve apparently has that technology, and there is stuff available to us on some scale that it would make sense we as players might start to unlock those secrets?
Axius said: Sorry.
Ictinus said: Okay.
Ictinus said: Sorry!
Ictinus said: Apparently nipple rings are a subject of significant debate. For now, it's a no.
Axius said: I mean, admittedly, we've broken the PG13 rating a few times already, such as the access to both player and admin created whore-houses.. and Easy Katie is implied to also be.. well. But I feel that there is enough evidence there that the game is admittedly more mature than the pg13 rating it tries to present.
Axius said: Sorry, hah. didn't mean to say that.
Ictinus said: Lastly, steam power/clockwork/technological advancements is not something I am close to being ready to think about yet.
Ictinus said: As I'm sure you can imagine.
Axius said: Of course, no worries.
Ictinus said: So I will have to take a raincheck on answering that. I have a lot to get up to speed on, but it's not likely something to be on the radar.
Ictinus said: Ok!
Ictinus said: And that is all for tonight! Thank you to everyone for showing up and asking all your questions. Lots of new things I hadn't thought of yet that are now in the mix to be considered.
Ictinus said: I'll be doing a second one of these this coming Sunday. It's listed on EVENTS.
Ictinus said: Woot!
Ictinus said: You are all free to go!
- Elene who is definitely not a frog.