Coldblooded and Lifevision

Tenshyo

While I admit it's rare I see many folks with Coldblooded (yes.. yes puns this early) it seems problematic that only two classes to my immediate knowledge can see them. Everyone else has to put down some serious investment into getting the lifevision artifact. 

Before y'all say Milestones (god bless 'em) the artifact is 750cr, and that's still six and a half weeks minimum! Investment! 

@Aisling shared a test she did with @Drystin:

He shadow'd her, while hidden, followed her into her house. She couldn't see him, look at him, didn't appear on entourage, bell did nothing, group move, nothing. (I'm sure either can explain in more detail!)

What are your thoughts on Coldblooded and Lifevision? I'd like to hear your thoughts and hear what the general consensus may be!

Drystin

So, as I explained to Aisling there are still counters that everyone can use to prevent this. I'm not going to share them openly because that would in fact put me, a syssin at a disadvantage. 

Axius

I imagine the bell tattoo helps with that. I'd hope it does.

Iazamat

You can just SEARCH, can't you? I'm 99.9% sure that's the answer to cold-blooded (and hide, in general).

Validan

While I feel this is more mistakenly a beef with class mechanics vs relic items there is a slew of counters to both without using lifevision. While I'm inclined to agree with the shortage of lifevision supply that alone won't save you from Phase or being followed by other means. Your best bet is exploring the avenue of caution and preparation for you know... sneaky people doing sneaky things.

Rhyot

It's not really all that problematic. There are multiple ways of getting around this. One of the easiest ways to counter this is SEARCH from the Vision skillset. Search will make people who are hidden, visible once more.

For accuracy, I asked Nisavi to follow me (who has both coldblooded AND Camoflauge) and I was able to see her come out of hiding when I did so, she also showed up on ENT. You don't need to invest 750cr into an artifact... just 156 lessons or 26 credits.

What Drystin did is probably more Syssin related skills than just Coldblooded. HAVE FUN EVERYONE!!!

Nisavi

Bell tattoos are important, and as Rhyot said, I tested with him. Syssin detection is doable, and you should ALWAYS touch bell before entering somewhere sensitive. Bell is honestly the best counter to most things spying related, as is Search. Also, just the act of wielding an eye sigil will be enough to scare a Syssin off usually. You can also do what I did with my house as Seir: set up an inescapable death room at the entrance. If you KNOW a Syssin is following you, enter the first room which is blocked behind two locked doors, wield eye sigil, and reveal. If the Syssin doesn't have wings, they're boned and stuck.

Edit: Also, if you're really paranoid about a particular Syssin going after you, you can either bait them with the aid of a Luminary (Truth is particularly good about this because there's no eye sigil warning for the Syssin to trigger movement off of) and/or have another Syssin (or someone with salvage goggles) phasesense the Syssin as most don't put Phaseveil up since it's heavy on the endurance.

Drystin

HELP DECEIT and AB subterfuge/assassination/hypnosis is a good place to get started into the wide world of syssinology.  There is a counter to every sneaky tactic a syssin has, the only limit is your own diligence. That's all you're gettin out of me coppers!

Also, just the act of wielding an eye sigil will be enough to scare a Syssin off usually.

True. As soon as I know my target is suspicious at all, the jig is up and its time to find something else to do until their false sense of security has been renewed. 

Oonagh

In every other game in IRE, there is some kind of fail safe before entering guildhalls/private areas, you educate your novices to SEARCH, use EYE SIGILS, check GROUP or ENTOURAGE, use BELL TATTOO, and a slew of other means of ensuring we remain safe/free from interference.

Aetolia has historically pandered to making things like theft(which I mean I know thats a sore subject for alot), and infiltration nearly impossible.
But it -is- a facet of the game many enjoy and as @Drystin said there are plenty of counters out there aside from outright seeing a person because of lifevision.

Be cautious instead of carefree!
Nothing happens.

Nisavi

Drystin said:

HELP DECEIT and AB subterfuge/assassination/hypnosis is a good place to get started into the wide world of syssinology.  There is a counter to every sneaky tactic a syssin has, the only limit is your own diligence. That's all you're gettin out of me coppers!

Also, just the act of wielding an eye sigil will be enough to scare a Syssin off usually.

True. As soon as I know my target is suspicious at all, the jig is up and its time to find something else to do until their false sense of security has been renewed. 

This is why I have three eye sigils orbiting me. MAXIMUM SCARE FACTOR.

Tenshyo

There has already been a lot mentioned that I had -zero- idea worked.

Regarding the Bell/Syssin thing we already knew all that, and that's not a problem.

Bell, however, does not alert to coldblooded!

Nisavi

Tenshyo said:

There has already been a lot mentioned that I had -zero- idea worked.

Regarding the Bell/Syssin thing we already knew all that, and that's not a problem.

Bell, however, does not alert to coldblooded!

Search does though.

Escelika

My opinion won't be really popular... I'm not a fan of heatsight being available to everyone.

I don't understand this thread. Coldblood is a minor counter (Due to coldblood availability) to an astronomical counter that is Heatsight vs Hidden abilities. Heatsight practically nullifies the need to use search, hidden, shroud, blending, and other similar abilities. Having Coldblooded exit in the game brings back these useful abilities and adds a dynamic of danger in an otherwise pretty safe world.

I'd like to know why it's a concern and needs to be talked about.

Rhyot

It's not really a concern, Escelika. The original poster shared something that they thought was a problem, without realizing that there were already counterplays available.

Everyone's all good.

Escelika

My mistake, thank you Rhyot.

Tenshyo

Rhyot said:

It's not really a concern, Escelika. The original poster shared something that they thought was a problem, without realizing that there were already counterplays available. Everyone's all good.

 Yeah! Learning/education for those who may not know! Like me!

I still think coldblooded is silly, but now that there are a number of ways to circumvent it, it's not so bad.

Fezzix

It takes a lot of luck to get the pieces required to assemble the Coldblooded relic. It's a much higher investment than it is to simply buy the Lifevision artifact for 750 credits. It's been typical for artifacts to counter other artifacts, but even so, I'll give the same explanation here that I do whenever anyone complains about syssin skills:

There is a counter to everything a syssin can do. They're easy. Complacency is the reason places get broken into.

There have been counters even before nerfs were put in place and before rooms that auto-strip phase were invented. There have been counters before buffs to the Vision skillset were created.