Announce post #2971: Imperial Dominion and Houses

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<pre>6/23/2019 at 12:49
Keroc, the Starborn
Everyone
Imperial Dominion and Houses

Hey folks,

After careful consideration by the Pools team, you will now found that the undead Houses are no more and the Dominion has been converted into a guild. This was a problem we tackled with players during a mini Townhall for Bloodloch some time back, and was heavily discussed with the House leaders and Primus at the time.

The general reasoning behind this is that we felt that the Houses splintered the Consanguine population into separate niches in a way that was unsustainable with the current population. So we have consolidated all these official organizations into one, the Imperial Dominion, in the hope that it'll foster a more interactive community. Hopefully we won't see newbies or returning players slip through the cracks, as they'll have a more robust organization to return to and receive help from.

As said before, we have converted the Dominion into guild as to ensure focus remains in one place (as opposed to split between the Dominion and another guild). This does mean that there are some of you who already are in a guild and won't be able to be a part of both. If it is your desire to join the Dominion, and you were part of it previously, then you can choose to join the guild through the JOIN DOMINION verb. There is no difference between this command and being inguilded, other then the fact that it does not require you to hunt down someone to offer the invitation in the first place.

There will be more changes to come, such as integrating the bloodline system with the guild fully, but for now my focus is just on making sure the transition happens as smoothly as possible.

If you have any questions, feel free to message me or Kyna.

Penned by my hand on Tisday, the 16th of Khepary, in the year 481 MA.</pre>

Zhukov

This change has been a long time coming, should have been made when the Dominon was first hard coded as Houses have struggled ever since.

That said I hope all Siring and embrace restrictions are removed, I think the game has suffered without the rogue vampire element. I hope it will be restored.

That said it was a throwback seeing clans again, been a long time so a bit of nostalgia kicked in. Especially with the announce post hours later, really did seem like the old days! Heh.

Aloli

I think this was a brilliant move in the right direction, away from other IRE games and the World of Darkness' clan novels. 

Macavity

Wit the Dominion being changed to a Guild now I want to get some clarity on how this is going to affect the rest of the Vampires on a few things.....

Blood powers:
Since we have the class outside of the Guild, do we get the option to use our blood powers, since they are part of the AB file? For example can we Sire and Embrace? Do we need to Blood Affinity them first to do that? I notice the bloodstone is inside the guild and with being sanction we can access the guildhall to use the stone, does that mean we have access to all the rituals? expect the one that can only be used by the House leader to stop someone from Siring, and on that ritual now that we are clans, does it still work?

Blood loss if lack of Sire:
Are we still going to be subjected to the loss of blood if we do not have a Sire like before? Since the Dominion is now a guild, and like other guilds their class does not affect another person in other guilds, should that not be the same with this guild as well? As in, the blood loss without a Sire should no longer be used if we are not in the Dominion Guild. I feel the Dominion should be self contained like all the other guilds are, and not be able to affect anyone as a Vampire.

House Leaders:
Now that the houses are clans, this means that the Primus when they change their bloodlines to a new House leader, then the clans are left in limbo with the old leader in place and no way to change it out without a vote. which if there is a vote and someone else runs and wins, this means you have one clan leader and one bloodline leader. Is there something in the works for this? In the past with Houses, the PRimus had the power, or was rumored to have the power, to change out the House leader with their choice, without having to call for a vote. I honestly have never seen this used in the past, but it was part of the help files.

Rogues?
Are people who are in the clan houses but not the Dominion still considered rogues? How can they be a rogue if they are sired by someone in the bloodline and still controlled by their Sire? I have been made aware that childerlist shows rogue in front of someone not in the guild, where I can see this is a quick way to see who is or is not in the guild, we still have the option to use Peerage (person) to see what their blood rank is. Rogues in the past were those not in a House, but when the Dominion came around, in any form it was in, even if they were not in the Dominion but in a House, they were never considered rogues. Why now?


This is my attempt to get a conversation started and to see some transparency from the admin on this subject that affects a large number of us.

Macavity

Macavity said:

Wit the Dominion being changed to a Guild now I want to get some clarity on how this is going to affect the rest of the Vampires on a few things.....

Blood powers:
Since we have the class outside of the Guild, do we get the option to use our blood powers, since they are part of the AB file? For example can we Sire and Embrace? Do we need to Blood Affinity them first to do that? I notice the bloodstone is inside the guild and with being sanction we can access the guildhall to use the stone, does that mean we have access to all the rituals? expect the one that can only be used by the House leader to stop someone from Siring, and on that ritual now that we are clans, does it still work?

Blood loss if lack of Sire:
Are we still going to be subjected to the loss of blood if we do not have a Sire like before? Since the Dominion is now a guild, and like other guilds their class does not affect another person in other guilds, should that not be the same with this guild as well? As in, the blood loss without a Sire should no longer be used if we are not in the Dominion Guild. I feel the Dominion should be self contained like all the other guilds are, and not be able to affect anyone as a Vampire.

House Leaders:
Now that the houses are clans, this means that the Primus when they change their bloodlines to a new House leader, then the clans are left in limbo with the old leader in place and no way to change it out without a vote. which if there is a vote and someone else runs and wins, this means you have one clan leader and one bloodline leader. Is there something in the works for this? In the past with Houses, the PRimus had the power, or was rumored to have the power, to change out the House leader with their choice, without having to call for a vote. I honestly have never seen this used in the past, but it was part of the help files.

Rogues?
Are people who are in the clan houses but not the Dominion still considered rogues? How can they be a rogue if they are sired by someone in the bloodline and still controlled by their Sire? I have been made aware that childerlist shows rogue in front of someone not in the guild, where I can see this is a quick way to see who is or is not in the guild, we still have the option to use Peerage (person) to see what their blood rank is. Rogues in the past were those not in a House, but when the Dominion came around, in any form it was in, even if they were not in the Dominion but in a House, they were never considered rogues. Why now?


This is my attempt to get a conversation started and to see some transparency from the admin on this subject that affects a large number of us.

oh also I would like to add that currently there is no mechanic that I am aware of that stops someone from using all of their AB file class skills that are outside of the Guild. If the Dominion is a full Guild, they should be held to same standard

Macavity

sorry I do not know how to edit my last posts, thought of something else:

Dominion Overlord Seat:
Will this change? No other guild Teradrim or Carnifex has an auto Overlord seat in Bloodloch. I feel this should be removed and open to contest like all the others

Neoma

Although I did not log in here on the forums to argue some points, in the past few days I have been messaging Keroc and Tiur about the problems we have encountered.

If the Dominion is going to be a guild then let it be as any another guild. NO other guild forces a certain race to be part of it. The door cannot swing both ways here. If the Dominion is a guild then it should act like one and not force stuff that is not a standard for guilds.

Consanguine whom are in a House and carry the Primus' blood through emperors/empresses are NOT rogues. This is ludicrous, childerlist shows them as rogues and they have lost seeing bloodranks, peerage and so forth. But childerlist also shows the so call rogue's childer as their proper bloodranks. Lets face it, this is broken in many ways... mechanically and RPly

I dont hate the Dominion being a guild and can even work with Houses as clans BUT the whole rogue issue is very unfair!
I cannot be quiet about this, and if takes more messaging and logging in these forums (which i do not do often) then i will beat the drum till this is fixed.

Rhyot

Clans: Whitwe the Houses have been turned into clans, you shouldnt really expect them to continue to thrive or be active much longer. Most IC clans once something like this happens become inept or irrelevant. The Dominion changing into a guild should be a catch all and bloodlines shouldnt matter anymore. Reason being, the Houses never really provided much other than a singular organization for people to socialize with. Now you have an entire guild to do that with. Discard your clans and embrace everyone that you share your guild with. 

House Leaders: The Primus has always had the ability to sever a line to force a new election in the old House system. It was never used because Trager wanted to be first then immediately quit and Callidora had no real IC reason to do so. 

Blood Rogues: For RP purposes, yes. Blood rogues exist. Rhyot was one for literal years after the immolation of Lunare. If a member has the Praenomen class but is not part of the guild (sired/not sired) they are still a Blood Rogue. I would like to keep the title separate from what being a traditional rogue means though. 

Dominion Overlord: Quite frankly, if the Overlord position is removed there wont be a spot to contest for. The Overlord position was created because Abhorash was a godmob and we have to listen to admins when they say something. When they made the position a player position, they gave them Overlord seat to fill that void. If the position is removed, the only thing it does is make Bloodloch have one less Overlord as there would be no position to fill. 

Macavity

when speaking about the Overlord position, I was referring to giving it back to the City to be contested like it was before the Primus event that caused it to be auto filled by them. There should be five Overlords

Rhyot

It was never open to the city. It was always godmob or the Primus. At least as far as I remember.

And quite honestly, if the admins do remove the Primus position, I'm ok with moving down to 4 Overlords. Gives us a uniqueness and really there doesnt need to be 5 Overlords. Having 4 is more than enough.

Macavity

no Bloodloch before Abhorash took the spot was always open to 5 Overlords, to which one would be Keeper....

Rhyot

I see. Well still... I think 4 Overlords is more than enough to lead a city of 20-some odd individuals.

Ansidia

Just an fyi..
They do an odd number of overlords so that vote for keeper is never a tie. This is true of all cities and across all ire games that select city leader this way.

Rhyot

Sounds like something that can mitigated through.....

ROLEPLAY!!

Zhukov

In terms of the Primus and Loch, simple solution would be to have the Primus keep their Overlord position. As a guildmaster they can be contested by any member now and need only a majority of guild votes instead of a council vote as before. If the admin which to keep it that way anyways, think it was done mostly to show the importance of the vampires to the city.

House as clans, they should all be pledged to the Dominion so any House leader and be removed at any time by the Primus or contested from within. I am not sure what the internal politics and positions are going to be, I assume that is being worked on though.

But I also agree that changes need to be made to rogues. Anyone in a guild is being punished for no definable reason, I hope this was an oversight. Siring and embrace also need to be looked at, or changed. Any other guild can apprentice outsides, I think keeping them as they are would add a unique feature to the class that it has always had and has been enjoyed by its members since Aetolia was created.

Lots of people come to Aetolia to play as vampires, keep letting them get embraced, remove all restrictions or conditions that punish non-guilded members and let anyone with Sanguis do it the same as before. I think the game would be better for it, rogues add a flavour to things and would be return to how things were envisioned for the class.

Sorry if the post seems overly long.

Neoma

I feel that we are dancing around and straying from the issue at hand, which is that the Consanguine in Houses are NOT rogues. I agree that there is a nice RP in being a rogue and if people want this then they can quit their House and rogue to their hearts content.
But the moment that the Dominion changed to a guild they gave up their right to call Consanguine not part of the Dominion rogues.

Rhyot said:

Clans: Whitwe the Houses have been turned into clans, you shouldnt really expect them to continue to thrive or be active much longer. Most IC clans once something like this happens become inept or irrelevant.  

@Rhyot That is far from true, maybe you are too young a player to remember when all Houses worked out of clans and the House system was only introduce afterwards. Another example is that Bouchard not only survived but grew in a clan for many years , and the clan was not as fancy as the House clans we now have.

Damn now I am straying from the main point. I blame Rhyot.

Neoma

I was just reading in the Town crier thread guild and cities where...
Imvra said " I 100% agree that that was a very unfair and damaging situation to be placed in, for individuals as well as the organizations."

This whole forcing of vampires to join the Dominion guild is exactly the same thing as the tethering of city/guilds.. unfair and damaging to individuals and to the Houses.

Emir

Disagree. That was a long time coming, ever since the Imperium/Dominion became an official organisation that had weight to throw around in a city. Vampires have had the best of every world since the beginning of multiclass (when they could join other guilds and still be a vampire). Before the city lock on guilds, they could be in the Dominion, in a guild of their choosing, and a city of their choosing. That gave them an incredible amount of area to spread their influence. Now they are locked like everyone else. That is the very definition of fair.

Macavity

Emir said:

when they could join other guilds and still be a vampire.

being a Vampire in this case was more of a race than the class in itself. Being in the guild and the class of the guild or any other class, came with more negatives than anything when they are a Vampire as well. We burn in the sun, need to feed for blood, lose blood if not sired and what not, while even in another class that is not Praenomen. We could not even access any of the blood powers even if they are an RP sense, like Sire, Embrace, Entomb, deathlink and so on unless in the Prae class.

Emir

You're skipping the point entirely to highlight maluses that are not relevant to the subject being debated.

Macavity

Emir said:

You're skipping the point entirely to highlight maluses that are not relevant to the subject being debated.

not really, what I was highlighting in this case was the fact that there are two different items happening here. the Preanomen class being tied to the Dominion as a Guild, and then the Vampire Race as a whole. They have very different RP stances, in that you can never be in the Preanomen class but still be a Vampire being in a House and part of the Bloodline. No other Guild has a Bloodline or need to be Sired like the Dominion does.

To be honest I am all for the Dominion being a guild and feel it is well over due and should have been done years ago. However the race of a Vampire is something that still is in limbo and needs to be dealt with. If the Dominion keeps the race of a Vampire, does this mean the Teradrim can be a race of Earthen? (and have it show up in our description like Vampire does) Is or would that be possible? This ties into what is or is not a rogue now, since as a Vampire we are still sired and in our House, we still are in the bloodline as well. Which has been said many times so far here.

To get back to your point about spreading our influence out, the Houses are and have always been seen more of a Family than anything else, at least that is how I have seen them and I know several others see that as well. So influencing the family is the same as any other in the land with their bloodlines that can be registered. The Dominion is still part of a city just like any other guild, and as for joining other guilds, as I stated above, we can still be in Guilds as a Vampire, just not be in the Dominion. So in reality that has not changed either.

hope that makes sense?

Kyna

We are in the middle of writing a response to address as many of these points as we can.

I do, however, want to point out that Keroc’s first announcement post asked for a moment of time as we had a lot going on.

We want to follow with another announce post about the Dominion once we have brought everything to do with bloodlines, Rogues, Siring and Embracing in line. We just needed some time to make sure the transition itself went smoothly and that no legacy information was lost with the organisation becoming a guild properly, and with the Houses becoming clans.

Zhukov

Vampires are the only class that carries its problems across the board, It's not like I can't wear armour as a vampire because I'm also a sciomancer. But I burn in the sun as a sciomancer, it makes sense but there needs to be something altered.

They shouldn't be the only class to carry over drawbacks and be unable to multi class except as a guided member of the dominion. No other class forces you to be in it's guild or suffer mechanical wise.

Keroc

Just going to point people over here now that bloodline information is out.