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A request for a Lore Bank
At times it can be very difficult to get a hold of information, since it might be hidden away in a book (lost in a sea of many many other volumes on a shelf), hidden behind a locked door or deep in the stacks of news posts, help files, etc. At times, players are not very forthcoming with information either, and news posts have a tendency to be a bit vague when it comes to facts, focused as they are on the awesomeness of the events that brought things to light.
Lack of transparency when it comes to existing lore is hindering players from finding new angles and improving dynamics within the game. Instead of worrying about who knows what, and guarding secrets or being obscure when providing answers, wouldn't it be better if certain things that are meant to be universally known or at the very least should be accessible knowledge is readily available and put in some kind of knowledge or lore bank?
Now, I know Imvra exists, but I am fairly certain that said person could be put to use assembling this kind of bank, in order to help make the game a bit easier to maneuver. It might even be a good idea if requests for lore could be made, sort of like the idea/bug/typo systems are, I don't know. That was just a thought that crossed my mind right this moment.
LORE REQUEST FIRE would set up a simple request to add a file on that specific key word
LORE EDIT FIRE could perhaps be available to a select few, who can suggest changes to an existing lore post, that simply needs to be checked off by Imvra/Admin.
One could, for instance, type LORE and it would give a short blurb about it, and then list certain scrolls or people of interest to speak to for further information.
For example, LORE FIRE could look something like this (and please, I just spewed things out for this at random):
Fire is one of the natural elements, and is connected to the elemental Plane of Fire, also called XXX. Fire is known to be a consuming force . There are a few guilds who are connected to this element through use of their skills, some in more basic ways, and others more elaborately. The Ascendril, for example, use the elemental energies . The Divine aspect of Fire is known as Mebrene, and has been known to guide mortals through various vessels, such as Lord Rahn, Lady Auresae, . For more information, read event news #, #, #, or find out more from those mentioned above.
Lack of transparency when it comes to existing lore is hindering players from finding new angles and improving dynamics within the game. Instead of worrying about who knows what, and guarding secrets or being obscure when providing answers, wouldn't it be better if certain things that are meant to be universally known or at the very least should be accessible knowledge is readily available and put in some kind of knowledge or lore bank?
Now, I know Imvra exists, but I am fairly certain that said person could be put to use assembling this kind of bank, in order to help make the game a bit easier to maneuver. It might even be a good idea if requests for lore could be made, sort of like the idea/bug/typo systems are, I don't know. That was just a thought that crossed my mind right this moment.
LORE REQUEST FIRE would set up a simple request to add a file on that specific key word
LORE EDIT FIRE could perhaps be available to a select few, who can suggest changes to an existing lore post, that simply needs to be checked off by Imvra/Admin.
One could, for instance, type LORE and it would give a short blurb about it, and then list certain scrolls or people of interest to speak to for further information.
For example, LORE FIRE could look something like this (and please, I just spewed things out for this at random):
Fire is one of the natural elements, and is connected to the elemental Plane of Fire, also called XXX. Fire is known to be a consuming force . There are a few guilds who are connected to this element through use of their skills, some in more basic ways, and others more elaborately. The Ascendril, for example, use the elemental energies . The Divine aspect of Fire is known as Mebrene, and has been known to guide mortals through various vessels, such as Lord Rahn, Lady Auresae, . For more information, read event news #, #, #, or find out more from those mentioned above.
11
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Anyone can edit it! Just log in with your character and password.
We've also been looking for a solid source of "yes, this is how it actually works" for a number of things for a long time. Things like "is everything made of bits of whatever is in the elemental planes, or do real physics matter?" "If real physics don't matter, then how do you explain shadows" etc
Plus the lovely problem where prior to Tiur nothing was actually documented in detail, apparently, so how many of us are sitting on books that originate from Galleus but make no sense in modern Aetolia?
If it has to have org-level checks on it for certain things that would be fine. But there desperately needs to be a way for players to access the game's lore in game in official sources.
Modicums of Spirit/Shadow/Fire/etc are a good example. Differing opinions on 'yeah Syssin use Shadow because they manipulate shadows because shadows are Shadow' vs. 'no you're dumb real physics matter here' that have genuinely impacted guilds, etc.
edit: Unless Keroc's link to the Wiki was an official stance, in which case... meh, several reasons have already been stated above for why we don't think that's a great plan.
We do have LOOKUP/Dictionary, and players are always able to msg Becue with ideas to update that.
We also have the HELP 17 section that can be updated using HELPEDIT.
I suppose we could look at making something like helpedit for the dictionary?
I also still think it has to be something that is checked by Admin, rather than giving everyone a chance to edit things that could have a lot of impact on how things are played out. Currently, the information is spread out, with small, often vague references here and there, but nothing substantial.
Take for example HELP GEOGRAPHY, which lists all places in Sapience. Some of those help files have one or two sentences added to them, with just a general description of their location and possibly a vague note of something else, or they are out of date. What they could have is a notation on when the last event took place there, with information on which event post it connects to, or what NPC was involved, and what impact it had on the region, just to add some background that people don't necessarily have to chase down in multiple posts/help files or attempts to ask people who are reluctant to provide information. What of the Orrery, which was set up there quite some time ago? What of the cultists? Updates would be good, and I am well aware this is a massive undertaking, but it would help make everything make more sense in general.
Another example is to edit/update and make use of HELP FAMOUS MOBILES, or incorporate this into the mentioned Lore Bank. That help file used to be a very interesting place to go to in order to pull out names to work with when it came to research.
Just some ideas that I think would help.
I'm still not sure why HELPEDIT isn't exactly what you're looking for? You submit a request for a new file or edit to existing, Imvra/me reviews, bam, the information is there. Things need updating, go for it!
As has been mentioned, lore connected to the elements is something quite important and, to many, confusing or at least unclear. Lore-based information connected to skills would be good as well. Locations connected to important events and ant impact on the world that was brought on by this. Help make this more easily accessible, please?
Also, stealth-updating won't help people find the information.
Indeed, the Dictionary is the best place for a lot of this information, so that we can keep things consolidated rather than further fracturing out different systems and syntaxes.
The team is always open to plug things in if you find things and can provide it. HELPEDIT was created by player request, so that you can take the reigns a bit more and help fill gaps or correct oversight and help volunteers keep doing the building they're volunteering to do. These repositories are a collective effort, and while I can fill in gaps and supply things (when I have time), I do have a full plate of work and responsibilities as-is. Whittling away at this is a goal, but it is always a conflict of priorities and projects.
We cannot make newsposts for absolutely everything that gets updated, although I can begin keeping a list and provide changelogs when there is a suitable grouping of them.
It is always, always appreciated if you, the community, can lend a hand! Some day I will become an octopus, but until then, I must make due with my two hands in my available time!
To be honest, this is also a form of building, only it is not directed towards new content, but game quality. I would be happier to see this being built on than seeing another new area popping up that might end up having problems with how it connects to existing lore further down the road. This would be very good! Request help, then, much like is done by Mortal builders. Set up a "Lore board", where you can post requests and people who are interested in helping can go search for information in what documents exist, and present a help file for some specific topic. I don't know. I'm just trying to come up with different ideas because I feel something needs to be done.
I personally don't believe that there needs to be a source available in-game or out beyond what we already have. The unreliable narrator is a compelling and realistic (and what the game's already established) standard on delivering information in any story. It allows for player creativity and flexibility. Mistakes and growth (or the lack thereof with proper record keeping) lends towards player agency. Options, even those that can be lost to time or debauchery, is a good thing because it allows things to rise and fall in a cycle which fit many themes within the game. It's a good measurement on how responsible (or nefarious or otherwise) the leadership of the various organizations of those times were for the new generation to overcome or repeat.
If there is anything that the admin should be responsible for in this respect, it's that they should be consistent and clear with the information they release. They should also allow for a chance for players to relearn/discover forgotten truths. One way this can be done is by leaving clues throughout the world for players to find. I think the admin already do this to some degree. Perhaps there could be improvements but I don't play enough to really say. I could very well be wrong.
Ultimately though, if players think something is important, the players should take it upon themselves to write it down. Can't just pass the buck to Admin every time. That would only be a disservice to our own roles as players. In D&D as a DM, if I drop lore that could be important and the players don't write it down, that's on them. Now, that doesn't mean it's lost forever, but the players will have to deal with the consequences and they'll have to research/rediscover said information in a mini-quest or call in a favor from an NPC. The same principle can be applied here. While it does mean that the players may have to rely on admin for these tidbits, if designed properly and the game world has enough info lying around to piece together, it should not happen enough that it'd significantly impact admin resources. That's my take on this.
The wiki is the answer, with the addition of some form of stamp and edit lock once a page is at pinnacle. Maybe add in a system that flags pages that're getting repeatedly edited for someone to go over and look and see if there's a 'lol editz' war going on so they can roll it back and lock the edits or something?
Being told to read news posts when asking for lore to rebuild a guild that lacks proper records (some are not as good with sharing as others), in order to stay consistent with what might have happened before, is decidedly not the right way to go. This is especially true since most news posts focus on storytelling rather than facts and consequences.
If you as a DM drop lore and players don't pick it up, you can't expect the next set of players on that adventure to know said pieces of lore, right? If an org leader asks for information, you should cooperate with themas best as you can to ensure they can help build and improve the game experience for others. It can be enough of a chore to revitalize a guild, so that research should be made a little easier. If nothing else, it would add to consistency.
Alternatively, isnt that what the Grand Library (or any library for that matter) is for: a place for collective information that people can add to??
Also, the Grand Aetolian library would an excellent thing to use for this, so long as all items put in there are Admin approved. It's that approval, or stamp of authenticity that is needed to ensure there is some form of continuity when it comes to lore.
That said, why not take a look at this from a different perspective.
In the real world, we have (had) enclopedias that come out every few years after current events, influential people, and various other items were verified by a much much larger group of people (so much larger than our Aetolian Pools).
Then there is Wikipedia which can be used for accurate information and easily verified by few individuals. These individuals arent really experts on the matter, but they look at it and say "This looks right." Wikipedia is used as a quick grab of information that is mostly accurate.
In Aetolia, we use the wikipedia version of information. Our admin team is so heavily engrossed in making more content and fixing/breaking things that they truly dont have the manpower to put one person on Lore Duty (encyclopedias) full time. So Why not work with other people, your local SMEs (Subject Matter Experts) to determine what information is accurate and should be made. You are the wikipedia editors. Plus its a good way to promote player interaction.
Our time, especially as volunteers, is limited. That time-currency is limited and needs to be budgeted and allocated to the best of our ability. With my projects alone, I do not have the time to 100% dedicate solely to updating help files and writing books.
We've introduced the HELPEDIT system at player request, and there have only been 13 submissions (including our own tests). Becue has repeatedly offered to update the Dictionary with new references and sections, if people are inclined to message her the details they think should be included. Other than correcting crafting references, few have taken her up on that. Will a new system be used, or become another database of good intention that ends up neglected?
That said - if the community is truly passionate about this, this is a wonderful opportunity to take initiative in-game. Utilize the systems already in place and collaborate IG. If the project can hold long term then perhaps the administration can reconsider and legitimize what the players have built.
Anyone remember Duiran's transformation from snuggly to savagery? Spinesreach's transformation into a 'Republic'? The Syssin Syndicate? The same principle applies here I think and I'd honestly rather the agency and upkeep remain in player hands for this type of thing.
Edit: For real, I don't care if there's an official lore decreed thing. Why not just update the files ourselves and then if something's wrong and we're told it's wrong, let it be corrected in the document?
Edit: never consistently told when something is wrong*