Events post #242: An interlude for Chaos

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Comments

  • AlathesiaAlathesia Member Posts: 33 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    For me it comes down to this..

    @Galadriel said it best if all your friends were going to jump off a bridge, would you follow?

    @Vyxsis, you were the leader of the Indorani and had the ultimate decision to move forward with your plan or not. You could and should have stopped it when told to do so. That is it. You ignored the warnings and now have to pay the consequences.

    Also, keep this in mind.. During an RP event it does not matter who is behind the godshell you are right. But while the admin are busy in the middle of the RP event they might not have the moment to stop everything to stop you. TWO DIVINE SAID STOP.


    End of story.

    Edited: I hate to sound mean or rude. But this is just how I see it.
    TybereusMimoteshIazamatVyxsisOonaghElliana
  • AlathesiaAlathesia Member Posts: 33 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Emir said:

    Right, I wasn't trying to imply otherwise, I just wanted to clear up the confusion of God shell vs admin shell and that being told something by Severn does not carry the same administrative weight as being told by Razmael. People mistaking Severn speaking from an admin position during the start of the war is an example of why this confusion is bad.  

    Thanks for the clearification. I did not read the post you are referring to. As a former leader of an org I have always taken the word of Divine as stone.
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    Silena said:

    Emir said:

    @Kanivara @Alathesia

    Vyxsis is 100% correct in believing that God decision != Admin decision. Gods != Admin.

    Severn is an IC entity and it does not matter if Joe Celani or Razmael or Tiur is behind the wheel, anything said or done is considered IC and not an admin decision. If an administrative decision needed to be made they would do it as their administrator shell (being Tiur, Razmael, Keroc, etc)

    There was even a post about this unicorns guys, come on. And during the war I know everyone talked about events and our meeting after it started that reinforced the God != Admin that it should be well known just due to word of mouth and how gossipy Aetolia is.

    My two cents: You're correct that it doesn't matter who plays what God. But if something is said, IC, you shouldn't base your character's reactions on OOC assumptions- IE, 'does Severn have the admin authority to do this' or 'will Kyna respond to messages?' None of that should matter to your characters as it isn't ever information available to them. I would assume, IC, that if a God says something, they're willing to back it up if they have to.
    thanks, emir and silena. i knew i wasn't nuts about that.

    as for the rest... i mean, sure, it's ICly reasonable to believe gods can follow through on threats. it's also ICly reasonable to think the Court of Chaos might actually win, given the situation, but OOCly it would've been super dumb to think that was a serious possibility. furthermore, severn's threat to "obliterate" us could've looked like a lot of things, practically speaking. it doesn't necessarily mean "you're actually completely seriously going to get deleted with no options to reform" - which is, frankly, an OOC convention. ICly, unless he actually destroyed all the people involved, it doesn't make a lick of sense to say "haha, i nuked your guild hall, now you don't exist!" as long as the people - and the guild is the people - are still around, there's nothing to stop them reforming except an imposed, OOC constraint (i.e. the org mechanic).

    the bit about OOC assumptions... idek what to say. Chak's interaction with Vyxsis yesterday was so full of "i know you know who i am and that i also play Tanix" overtones that people who didn't know commented on how weird the argument about messaging and bloviating about how Tanix was betrayed were. at the end of the day, while i don't base IC actions on OOC assumptions, those OOC assumptions absolutely will impact the range of IC actions i'll consider taking. i'm not gonna blatantly break PK rules, which are largely OOC, and get shrubbed because i think it makes IC sense. i'm also not gonna do something i see as a complete waste of time and energy, like... messaging an absent god.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




    Iazamat
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    i've gotta try to have some discipline and not reply further to this thread. the degree of willful misrepresentation, lack of attention to what's actually been said, and, in at least one case, outright lies is making me crazy. good luck, y'all.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




    Iazamat
  • SilenaSilena Member, Immortal Posts: 122 Immortal
    Vyxsis said:



    while i don't base IC actions on OOC assumptions, those OOC assumptions absolutely will impact the range of IC actions i'll consider taking. i'm not gonna blatantly break PK rules, which are largely OOC, and get shrubbed because i think it makes IC sense. i'm also not gonna do something i see as a complete waste of time and energy, like... messaging an absent god.

    I understand that, and it isn't an unreasonable assumption. No one wants to do something they think is a waste of time. My only caveat is that sometimes, it can be, well, a CYA option for your character. In a different IRE game, I abandoned my guild/city due to some political conflicts, and was forced to leave my order(reluctantly) in the process. Even though I was 95% sure the god was absent and never returning, I sent an apology before I left, as a way of mitigating as best I could... both because my character still respected the god, and because he was known to be a bit of a not-nice-person to traitors. (He did return, so I'm glad I did)

    But that's a different situation. I don't think what you did was dumb or bad rp, just that, if it mattered to Vyxsis, sending a message to Chak would have let you say afterwards, "Well, I tried my best, but she didn't answer." If it didn't matter to Vyxsis (IE, that you were determined to speak to the chaos court either way) - then, don't worry it. Own your villain status, as @Xenia said. Or interpret your IC actions in another way, and own that. I agree that the situation with the indorani was unique, as far as I can recall- but so too was Vyxsis role in bringing it about. From my perspective, as a player, that's actually pretty cool.
    AlathesiaOonagh
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    Silena said:

    But that's a different situation. I don't think what you did was dumb or bad rp, just that, if it mattered to Vyxsis, sending a message to Chak would have let you say afterwards, "Well, I tried my best, but she didn't answer." If it didn't matter to Vyxsis (IE, that you were determined to speak to the chaos court either way) - then, don't worry it. Own your villain status, as @Xenia said. Or interpret your IC actions in another way, and own that. I agree that the situation with the indorani was unique, as far as I can recall- but so too was Vyxsis role in bringing it about. From my perspective, as a player, that's actually pretty cool.

    #nodiscipline lol

    i think this is where i have to point out this isn't, contrary to popular belief, just about me. if vyx took the indorani to some left-field extreme (which i don't think is true, but this is hypothetical), punish vyx. fine. remove me as gm. start a reformed guild where someone else is in charge, they've all learned their lesson, and there's some direction for developing away from the lore that led us to take this route. don't destroy the experience for everyone. i loved the indorani, it's true, and i had ideas, ambitions, goals. the point of all that was never just me, tho - it was to make a fun-as-unicorns guild with RP depth and world-wide engagement. i've been arguing here as a sort of representative - i was the org leader after all - on behalf of a group of people. the way this has been handled, both ICly and OOCly, by admin and players, has ruined a lot of the experience. hate me, think i'm a whiny jerk or an idiot or both, but for the love of unicorns, have some compassion for and mercy on all the others.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




  • MimoteshMimotesh Member, Bot Posts: 30 ✭✭
    @Vyxsis You have said though, as have others who were present, that Vyx wasn't the only one talking about the Chaos Court and laughing about things. I don't know how widely known it is icly that most of the guild thought it was a good idea, but since it's at least known that one other person was in on it, why risk it with the rest of the guildmembers? I think it's pretty sane by other players to assume that the guild was in on it and therefor be cautious around the former Indorani.
    Iazamat
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    i did not say i was laughing. it's untrue, a total mischaracterization to say the conversation being had was *always* directed toward bringing golgotha to the PMP to attack. i've said more than once that i didn't have anything in mind other than trying to use our connection to the relevant power to help out, but it's assumed - both by severn at the time and by others in retrospect - that i and/or others were always planning a disruption. it's just not true.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




  • MimoteshMimotesh Member, Bot Posts: 30 ✭✭
    @Vyxsis I feel I need to clarify. No, you never said you laughed, but it has been mentioned that you and Ishmar were giggling about things, which is what I meant. And you said that you talked to others about Golgotha and that they approved of what you were doing, and if you weren't gonna talk to him, they would. There. Clarified, I hope. And whether or not you planned a disruption or not by telling Golgotha, that's what happened. Things when to hell after that. Actions and reactions.
    Vyxsis
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    trager, i'm going to say this for the sake of honesty: for me, at least, it's hard not to read your input as proxy-posting.

    nonetheless, i don't think i've really just said "you just don't understand" - i have appealed to reasoning internal to indorani lore as a kind of shorthand rather than doing a huge info dump. i've also said, more than once, that this isn't just about me. i'm less worried, much much less worried, about my personal loss than that of all the others. i'm not even *really* complaining about there being consequences so much as that the consequences have been unnecessarily harsh to an entire group of people.

    admin did make and are making decisions that changed the course of player responses, even. an example: yesterday, vyxsis and some other guildies were meeting with bloodloch leadership to explain ourselves. nobody was really happy with us, as is to be expected, but after a bit of talking, my sense was that some were coming to understand why we did what we did. it was probably going to result in punishment, still, but maybe tempered. but then, basically right before the meeting would've ended and the overlords would've adjourned to discuss, chakrasul appears and delivers a strong, strong tongue-lashing in which she doesn't really address my arguments but simply says "No. Wrong." then she disappears. immediately, what seemed like a process that was going relatively smoothly and would involve deliberation, Zenobia changes course and orders Vyxsis banished. it was a direct response to chakrasul's intervention. consequences? yes, fine. jumping in to interfere in the players' processes of doling out those consequences? ehhhhhhh... when you consider how many other ways and times chak could've chewed me the unicorns out - including in ways that would've better allowed other indorani to save face, rather than making their circumstances worse because of the Divine Stamp Of No-No - i think it's pretty reasonable to say "hey, this is a bit much."

    again, the objection isn't to there being consequences. the objection is to the level and harshness of consequences that's causing a whole group of players to feel ostracized and immiserated.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




    Trager
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    Trager said:

    Also, if peeling back all the veiled BS and laying it out is abuse, I’m the most abusive MF you’ll ever see. 

    yeah, sorry, it seemed the closest button to "this post is inflammatory and doesn't engage things that have actually been said." if there's a better button for that, i'll gladly switch my flag.
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




    Kandara
  • TekiasTekias WisconsinMember Posts: 280 ✭✭✭
    Disagree?
    Formerly: Spiegel. Eidycue.

    Hi.

    image
    VyxsisLuasMimotesh
  • IazamatIazamat Member Posts: 85 ✭✭✭
    I think it's pertinent to point out, for everyone at home, that outside of Vyxsis and Tina, no one else has been booted from their respective cities. A handful of non-novice players copped enemy statuses and fines from Spines (and maybe Eno/Duiran?), but they ultimately mean nothing as they won't interfere in anyone's play time.

    Are Indorani players going to be ostracized at some level and potentially find themselves in difficult positions? Absolutely, but they had to have known the consequences of supporting such an action. Regardless, they are not in an unwinnable situation, there are plenty of orgs in the game, and they have RP routes open to them for either redemption or doubling down on their cult. Relatively speaking, everyone is getting off almost scot-free.
    VyxsisTybereusOonaghKandaraLeanaElliana
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 592 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just to clarify, what happened wasn't the result of any single person's decision on the Indorani's part. So if there's any 'blame' to be laid, it's not solely yours to take, @Vyxsis. The decision to involve the Chaos Lords, as I think you mentioned, was something supported and pushed by a number of people in the guild and guild leadership. I think that's part of why the guild got nuked - a large number of an org and its leadership appeared to support a decision that essentially backstabbed the entire world ICly. When you're in leadership in an org, not only the GM, but all of the guild leadership, you have something of a responsibility to curb potentially detrimental actions.

    I say 'detrimental' in the sense that the repercussions have far-reaching consequences that aren't easily forgiven or undone. In Duiran? The city's been nudged a lot recently by its gods to act else risk ostracizing its allies or being put in a needlessly difficult position. In the case of the Indorani, again, a sizeable portion of the guild supported a decision that pretty much came across as throwing every other org under the bus. I'm not saying Indorani players deserve the treatment, but at the same time they made the decision that put themselves there. And you can't really say, 'Oh, I had no idea that everyone would hate us ICly'. You kind of have to be aware of that possibility. It's kind of like how with the Gray Accords that's going on in-game: Duiran and Enorian KNOW there's the possibility that Bloodloch or Spinesreach won't share all the information they have, or that Severn might pull a 'LOL ARTIFICE' trick, but it's a CALCULATED RISK. You go in knowing something bad might happen, but you accept it anyway, and know full well what the consequences are going to be. And that's part of being part of any org leadership: weighing actions with consequences on multiple levels, and which consequences are 'acceptable' enough that isn't going to cause undue misery to players in your org.
    IazamatElliana
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    I support @Oonagh (whose name makes me want to chant it over and over), on the idea of making a cult clan. I mean, Bouchard was deleted for like.. years and eventually reformed because of the determination of a few people (though primarily Neoma, I think).

    It happens. I won't really bother commenting on whether it was deserved or earned or horrible or what have you. All I see is that the Indorani can now infiltrate other guilds and attempt to influence them from the inside while being part of a hidden clan cult or something dedicated to the spread of Chaos... or something.

    Alternatively, you could just start chanting "Oonagh-a Oonagh-a" like I am.

    Vyxsis
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    Satomi said:

    I support @Oonagh (whose name makes me want to chant it over and over), on the idea of making a cult clan. I mean, Bouchard was deleted for like.. years and eventually reformed because of the determination of a few people (though primarily Neoma, I think).

    It happens. I won't really bother commenting on whether it was deserved or earned or horrible or what have you. All I see is that the Indorani can now infiltrate other guilds and attempt to influence them from the inside while being part of a hidden clan cult or something dedicated to the spread of Chaos... or something.

    Alternatively, you could just start chanting "Oonagh-a Oonagh-a" like I am.

    i'm just gonna say it: Onnagh-a Oonagh-a is the most valuable comment in this thread, and so i hereby close it to comments
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




    SatomiOonaghLuasIazamat
  • IkruutIkruut Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    I almost never post because I'm mostly inactive for loooong periods of time in Aetolia and I just generally don't post to IRE forums a lot as I prefer to stay IC mostly. But I have had thoughts of giving Aetolia another shot lately and made a few attempts. Anyway, that's all to say, I don't have a position on the specifics of any of this, as I've no vested interest in the Indorani, but questions and thoughts arise for me out of the implications.

    So it's said that the Indorani "don't make sense as a player run organization" because of their antagonistic stance which, I'm uh... honestly kinda lost on. Every time I try to come back to Aetolia I feel like I see a lot of people bemoaning the lack of conflict, but this seems like a push in the opposite direction. And also, from an outsider's perspective, it does seem a bit to me that Indorani players were forced to choose between an IC lore-appropriate decision that would get them nuked or an OOC against-lore decision that lets them stay.

    I dunno, I could be totally off with all of this. And I assure you all I'm not trying to stir up any more drama. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on, not just with this, but with the state of the game in general because like, I think there's some really, incredibly appealing aspects to this game. I just don't want to invest large amount of times in getting back into Ikruut if it's going to feel like hardcore railroading storywise. I made this character with a clear idea of what the Teradrim stood for then and they turned into something very different, which I rolled with, but this feels to me that it discourages conflict in general and I don't want to invest more time into roleplaying and character development if that's what I should expect.
    KandaraZailaSteeleLeana
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 592 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, I've heard the comment of 'oh, they were generating conflict' a few times now.  Yes, what the Indorani did generated conflict, but in the greater scope of things? It's not necessarily the good kind. During an event where the gods and every other org in the rest of the game are trying to help the Sapience gods, you have one org that essentially went 'screw all y'all'. What's happened since has been pretty much a reaping of consequences - another thing people have complained about the game not having. I don't feel like there's been any railroading - people are doing what feels logical in respect to the current story. And what's happened is a logical progression of the consequences of such a huge decision. You supported summoning the Chaos Lords after being warned by one of the more powerful gods? Of course every other org that has been fighting to save their gods are going to have reason to mistrust you, and of course the gods themselves are going to have reason to dislike you IC. That's just...kind of how it goes. And with the way the game is currently set up, making an org at odds with everyone else isn't exactly smart or healthy, and kind of reminds me of Kinsarmar over in Imperian. I don't know a ton about the Indorani, but choosing to not get the Chaos Lords involved would still have been a valid choice that'd still make lore sense (ex. 'oh, we'd better help protect the world in this instance or else there won't be a world to inflict despair on'). From a writing standpoint, if you're going to be a villain, you want to be a sustainable one - conquer, destroy, but leave enough that you can still exert your influence.

    When it comes to large scale events in Aetolia, I feel like it has to be approached as players like you're players in a D&D game, and the admins and Celani running the event are your DMs, and the event itself is a plot arc. The event runners will have a general idea of the end goal of what the plot arc is, and leave hooks to latch onto. The gods and NPCs nudging players in certain directions are like a DM doing the same to keep players going in a certain direction to keep the story moving. It's railroading, yes, but it's a necessary kind of railroading. You want to be able to do whatever you want? Well, you can; there's just going to be consequences. I can say from my own personal experiences with Duiran and the amount of nudging it's had to have from its gods that if it hadn't been done, Duiran probably wouldn't have gotten involved in the Liruma War ("It doesn't directly threaten us or Dendara, it's not our problem") or the Gray Accords ("Why would we cooperate with Shadow? They'll just stab us in the back, so let's go it alone") for reasons that were perfectly valid IC. But decisions were made to 'play ball' because as I've mentioned before, when you run an org, you do have to balance RP with what the story is currently demanding.
    KandaraLuasIazamatLeanaElliana
  • IshmarIshmar Member, Bot Posts: 2
    First post here, so yeah.

     I was recently directed to here on what admin said about the guild. So I decided to read up. Now for my 2 cents.

     Ishmar has a history from long ago with Severn. She doesn't trust anything that he says. She had asked if Chakrasul had a seal and the answer was no, they were created before her time. So she had thought "why bother?" Then the chaos seal popped up and she had an idea. Ask the chaos lords for help. After the threat was made, she left it in the Indorani hands. Although,  if she were an Indorani, she would have told.

     My mind and Ish's was running with possibilities of "what if"scenarios.  Ish didn't know what was going on with the Indorani and it was maddening until I was given a small heads up ooc.

     When Golgotha came into play, I'll admit that I was looking forward to seeing Severn and him fighting.  I had no idea that all the other Gods were going to get involved. At one point,  I actually thought that the good ole spider lady would be in Golgotha's harem. Wouldn't that had been a hoot?

     I had planned on Ish never being in another guild again. After she was branded an enemy to Spinesreach and killed, she joined.  Real emotions do come into factor on things. 

     Now she has her own punishments to take if she likes them or not. In the way that I've always played her, she accepts them for her small part in what happened.  

     With that said, she's already had a few ideas that could bring the Indorani back together again since there isn't a guild. If people in the guild accept her ideas, it's their choice just as it was in contacting the Chaos Lords. 

     Just remember this folks, Golgotha's blood on Severn's dagger did strengthen it some, but it won't hold forever. Who's to say that when Golgotha returns, Jox will break free and then the armies of chaos will turn to fight in that battle?

     One last thought.... Any of the Gods that are aligned with Bloodloch never appeared at the seals. Only when Golgotha showed up. So how were the Indorani were know which way to go? Being a follower of Chakrasul, I loved seeing Severn in fear. We didn't know what her thoughts were on that matter until it came for the Indorani punishment in Bloodloch.  A bit of a disappointment on that end.
    You pull down your pants and moon a company of twenty mounted knights.
    A company of twenty mounted knights lets out a blood-curdling scream.
    Kandara
  • EllianaElliana Member Posts: 49 ✭✭✭
    As my little two cents,

    Yes there was a clear outline of acceptable behavior. ICLY Severn warned. It was ignored, he followed through. You are justifying, but you are failing to see yourself your actions as a leader represent your whole guild.

    Why would they -want- to revive the indorani after you essentially gave the middle finger to everyone regardless of the intent, which stopped them from focusing on their event to handle what you did. In an Ic perspective.

    Now no, I haven't been here but I can deduce what happened there, when it's all out there. Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object.

    You chose the wrong action, you have the equal response of said reaction, plainly put it sucks yes, but essentially suck it up accept that the guild as a whole was punished because a majority agreed. You failed to stop them or even try to seek council. Then you and Leana tend to vastly go on the firestorm when you all don't get your way to claim how you're oppressed. Come off it already. It was stated clearly VERY CLEARLY.

    If you don't like the response the admin gave you, you should have picked up on that not so subtle queue from the admin.
    I am not a morning inside four walls. I am the hurricane setting fire to the forests at night when no one else is alive or awake. I live in my own flames sometimes burning too bright -too wild to make things last and so I run. Far and wide until my bones ache and lungs burn..and it feels good.
    Do you hear that?
    It feels good, it feels good because I am both the slave and the ruler of my own body and I wish to do with it exactly as I please
    LeanaVyxsisAlathesiaKandara
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