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@Tybereus, I think assist xp would be a good idea.
orrery's kinda had a lot of problems since its inception, from what i gather. it's a weird throwback to landmarks, which lots of people never experienced directly and no longer have any real bearing on the game. same with various other 'mass conflict' avenues - why bother fighting in the Shattered Vortex? or the Iernian Fracture? i mean, i do both from time to time, but that's just because i would wouldn't i. the orrery rewards you with... ok, slightly better sip half the time isn't too bad. what else though? every four hours, it wastes anabiotic with a stat boost that lasts 5 minutes - when are you ever gonna get use out of that? 5% bonus to audit for the least widely available damage types in the game? ok, thanks...
like, unless you just love group pvp or feel certain you're gonna win, i can see why people wouldn't bother at all just based on a loose cost-benefit analysis.
Edit: To add, I really think bonuses for the winning side are much, much better for everyone involved than a slew of consequences for the losing side, which the game's gotten fairly decent at. In my 15 years playing Aetolia, numerous people have rallied for consequences of varying natures whenever conflict has been discussed, but the results indicate that very few players, if any, actually want to deal with those consequences. What most want are consequences for the other side of the game, because we all selfishly derive enjoyment from our "enemies" having their fun ruined, even if we wouldn't admit that. So, yah! More conflict systems with the Foci setup (aura = no loss of exp, shared exp gain) would be more beneficial in the long run.
When it comes to assists, however, Orrery could definitely benefit from those, as it is usually a group thing, and would encourage people to move to the next step up in fighting. Eventually they might move to more Arena fights, and later on... perhaps duels. I remember some truly epic duels being fought at North of Trees.
There should be a natural progression in this, but I really don't like the notion of removing consequences. Disappointment is part of it all, and if you can't handle it, get better or learn how to handle a loss.
Lessers - group fighting, consequence free
Orrery - group fighting, some consequences (less with assist gain)
Sect - single fighting, consequence free
Duel - single fighting, larger consequences.
Not getting the buffs from the Orrery.
And if that isn't consequence enough, then why bother fighting over it at all?
If the consequences are too adverse, people will stop going. A lot of people want to help but only one can get the kill. A less experienced and weaker player will die way more than the buff artifact players. They also get little help getting that back if they never land a killing blow.
Shared exp will mitigate that issue. There's already an aura (debuff) to facilitate that, though I don't know how the code works.
Also please note that I am all for the shared assist xp for Orrery. I just don't think it should be completely like Lessers.
Additionally, I will -NEVER- go to the Orrery now because of xp loss. 1% for me takes 5-6 hours to get back (Coincidentally, its also why I don't do the Sect anymore either because I'm still lose 3-4 hours of work). I might be somewhat of a masochist to continue bashing at level 206, but its what I enjoy and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to slit my wrist and lose 6 hours of work just so I can get some 5% audit or maybe a slightly better sip rate.
If you want people to attend the Orrery more, here's a few ideas:
- Make it an aura'd area where you share xp and don't lose xp
- Increase the buffs you get from winning ie..
- Remove the shadow/spirit audit and make it a flat 10% audit gain across the board
- Change the noon/midnight buffs to last for 2 hours instead of 5 minutes.
- Sip changes to last during both day AND night (regardless of tether) with an increased effectiveness during
chosen sides time
Side topic: People are always fucking bitching about wanting consequences. The most recent change for that was making death cost your first born son. Congrats! Should there be consequences for things, absolutely. But making consequences for something that is meant to be a group related mindset is childish and selfish. If you want consequences, you shouldn't get to pick and choose what gets consequences and what doesn't. The "squeaky wheels" got huge xp loss hits for PVP and PVE when dying. Ok, cool. I would like to see consequences for fishing, hours upon hours of roleplay, and extended idling times. Again, you can't preach about wanting consequences if it is only done to benefit you.
TL;DR: Buff benefits of orrery, make it a aura'd area like lessers, and ignore the people wanting "consequences"
Perhaps this will be a long discourse on the topic, but without some comparisons we cannot see the whole picture.
To make a comparison, MKO was the IRE game which had the least PvP barrier (you could even PK with one skillset alone in some classes and there were no PvP barrier-padding like resistance miniskills) and possessed no XP loss for PvP deaths. The curing system did not even have curatives so it was quite on the gentle side with resources to participate in PvE and PvP activities too.
But in the long run it did not magically increase or decrease the participation. People would still get angry when they were killed and this lack of consequence to PvP made people uncaring about the death in the game.
Personally I found it amusing a good deal of players in the game play "brave" characters when there was no consequence to their actions. A non-com would call you coward and give you enough reasons to kill them...and when you kill them...they would laugh at you again (I like to call that "Brave Non-Com Syndrome") Because why not? You have just dealt them 1-2 minutes of AFKness and killing someone repeatedly was frowned upon in MKO too.
Now here, the root problem I observe is not the loss of xp but rather the lack of drive beneath the current conflicts. I have participated in enough lessers to date to lose interest in them, but at first I was envisioning them as disrupting key operations of the enemy. A conflict of interest. But then it was pointed out participating in them really is not a big deal and it is more then enough to keep ylem reserves of a city with PvE/less-lethal methods. So why participate in any battle if they are devoid of a driving reason? Why my character should care about lessers or Orrery when they are not crucial to an advantage or disadvantage? They felt now like minigames, like Sect of Blades...fairly detached from PvE and gameworld.
Side note: Also aura is in my opinion a very outlandish and unfitting mechanic "Oh his aura dropped...we should not kill him now!" I found that always OOC. In a war-scenario, you would do pre-emptive strikes and chases. Playing around aura rules is not-fun and that is RPly unsound.
Some Spicy Solutions
1. Untethering Conflicts
Currently tether mechanics cause the occurrence of natural alliances between Bloodloch-Spinesreach and Duiran-Enorian. As standalone cities they are unable to shine and be responsible for their armies. In my opinion while in tether (grand play side of the game) cities are aligned they should be misaligned in more short-term conflicts. That way, you will have four sides vying for control instead of two sides.
2. Conquest
Some Capture the Flag or King of the Hill style PvP events across the world would give people RP reasons to participate in such conflicts. Furthermore these outposts can be placed in less-frequented areas to provide some traffic there. Good folks would not want a Grook village fall into the hands of Spireans who will use the inhabitants as laboratory test subjects, right?
3. True Zero-Sum Conflicts
A zero sum game will effectively mean one side's victory is another side's defeat and its consequence will be felt. Lessers are inflationary conflicts in nature, because ylem will accumulate more and more...thus there is no way to deprive another city from their ylem reserves or make them lose on certain buffs. On the other hand a true zero-sum game would put one side more advantageous then the other. Perhaps one side can capture a location which will provide a tithe to the controlling city and make their commodity prices higher for the others. The ideas can be increased with some brainstorming. The main aim is this: Each of the four cities should have either a RP or conflict of interest reason to capture those places or fight in a designated area.
PvP XP loss, the reasonings behind conflicts and such, all are related to conflicts such as Orrery.
Stop being a forum police and instead contribute other then: "I bash nonsensically above lvl 200+ and 1% xp loss is too much for me! Ignore people who want consequences!"
But yeah, as I mentioned before, if it isn't worth fighting over with the existing XP loss, why bother?
At best, I think if it was like 30-45 minutes that would probably a much better benefit than 5 minutes. It would allow you to have better speeds for PVE and if you wanted to PVP, you'd have an edge as well.
Can we please remove the ability of placing shrines in the mountaintop area, as well as the surrounding rooms leading into the Orrery mountaintop?
Right now, shrines are being used to passively damage people, passively heal people, and also fast travel into the immediate center to bypass enemy aegis. The Orrery is in no manner, an event that requires Divine attention or assistance. Allowing such gives an unfair advantage to the people who are enemies/allies of the individuals of the order enemies.
Memery aside, why can't you just defile the shrine?
Experience Gained: 47720 (Special) [total: 2933660]
Needed for LVL: 122.00775356245
I'm not really sure this is a cycle either tether wants to be trapped in or perpetuate, so instead of memeing on one another and clicking the LOL react, maybe approach this like adults.