PvE Rebalancing

KerocKeroc A small cupboardMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 426 admin
ANNOUNCE NEWS #2836
Date: 4/24/2018 at 3:51
From: Keroc, the Starborn
To : Everyone
Subj: PvE Rebalance

Hey folks,

Today I bring you the first set of changes aimed at updating the PvE experience, beginning by balancing out the existing gap between the best and worst classes. I have no doubt that there's going to be a lot of strong opinions following this change, as such I will be opening a thread on the forums where everyone can discuss the changes as a community.

Some classes have extra bonuses to their damage (like Praenomen Potence) that might skew things a little more in their favour, or some classes have better healing that helps them bash (like Templar Redemption). For now we just want to meet a base line and then make further tweaks from there, however feel free to bring them up in the aforementioned forum thread above.

As there are some classes with a fair few options, here is a list of skills we consider to be the main hunting tool of the class. All of these skills have had their damage adjusted to some degree, along with any supplimentary skills to ensure they remain the main focus. Fair warning that Sentinel and Wayfarers got hit the hardest, they were far above everyone else.

=====================================
Archivist - Crux
Ascendril - Staffcast
Carnifex - Spinning or Doublebash
Indorani - Decay or Bonedagger
Luminary - Smite or Lightning
Shapeshifter - Slash
Monk - Scorpion with SDK/UCP/UCP
Praenomen - Frenzy
Sciomancer - Staffcast
Sentinel - Crosscut/Thrust
Shaman - Lightning
Syssin - Camus or Garrote
Templar - DSK or DSW
Teradrim - Batter or Skullbash
Wayfarer - Chop or Lob
Zealot - Scorpion with SDK/UCP/UCP
=====================================

Make sure that you base any feedback around these abilites.

Along with that are a few minor changes to help make things a little more even across the board. All changes only affect the skill when used in hunting, nothing about PvP should change.

Changes (PvE Only)
======================
- [Artifact] Scepter of Duality recovery time increased to 4 seconds, up from 2.5.
- [Artifact] Scepter of Duality now has an endurance and willpower cost.
- [Bladefire] Reduced the damage dealt by Sacrifice by a fair bit.
- [Corpus] Potence no longer affects the balance recovery of Frenzy.
- [Primality] Boosting no longer affects the equilibrium recovery of Lightning.
- [Primality] Lightning equilibrium recovery reduced to 3.5 seconds, down from 3.75.

Lastly, for the time being we have tied damage dealt for the main bashing skills to skillrank. This means that the higher your skill rank is, the more damage you'll deal. Some newbie skills (like Sumac) will continue dealing a flat amount of damage for now. At a later date, we plan to tie this to your level instead, but that requires a bit of fiddling yet to go, specifically when it comes to weapons.

That should sum things up for now. Keep your eyes peeled for further changes!

Penned by my hand on Closday, the 15th of Haernos, in the year 472 MA.

NilsToz
«13

Comments

  • AnsidiaAnsidia Member Posts: 8
    Will those of us that bought 400cr scepters be able to get a full refund because of the extreme nerfing of this expensive artifact?
    LeanaVyxsis
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    Ansidia said:

    Will those of us that bought 400cr scepters be able to get a full refund because of the extreme nerfing of this expensive artifact?

    echoing this a little less politely: i'm expecting a refund - and sooner rather than later
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    Thank you!
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I'm a little confused on a lot of the choices and motivations that went towards making these changes. I have a number of questions.

    Which are considered the 'worst' classes?
    Which are considered the 'best' classes?
    What does the admin consider is the ideal experience for PvE?
    What goal does the admin wish to accomplish by homogenizing the classes?
    WIll classes that are known for their hunting prowess be given something special now to identify them?
    Will the next stage of adjustment be related to survivability?

    Most of my concerns stem from the belief that all of the recent changes are motivated by misinformation. It's good to look at the PvE experience and try to address issues, but I don't think anyone wanted sweeping generalizations across the board. A big part of the experience is the class I'm using for its unique approach to the game.

    If the sceptor was going to be nerfed this hard, you should just delete it. The only reason it exists is from an event only a handful remember and as the ultimate bashing tool.
    The best Friendly combat message died today. (never implemented)


  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 647 admin
    I will be giving selective refunds on the scepter (usually within a RL month of purchase). It has been removed from the shop for now so that I don't have to deal with second thoughts. Msg me if you want to discuss.
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 647 admin
    @Keroc can step in here some. I'm pretty tired and don't have time for full replies yet.

    But one of the base decisions I made when it was decided to change PvE is that it has to be made from a flat playing field. It does no good to have to balance everything at every incremental change. It makes the task of adding new PvE abilities all the more impossible if we have to consider everything at every step.

    For example, how much gold should come from bashing? Well, if I want my metric as $x/hr, I don't want to have to say "Sentinels make $/hr, Shamans $/hr, etc" down every single class.

    After that, we can progress to other PvE design things... which I'm not discussing the whole plan with right now. But getting a game design philosophy of mine out of the way: I do not want a class that is good at PvP and bad at PvE. All the classes should be fun in all the ways.
    NilsLeanaToz
  • KerocKeroc A small cupboardMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 426 admin
    Just as a note, but if you test on mobiles that you can kill in one-hit, you're going to get much lower numbers then otherwise. Make sure the mobile you hit doesn't die straight up.

    Leana
  • KasimirKasimir Clearwater, FLMember Posts: 50 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Eliadon said:

    For the record, Sceptre wasn't actually nerfed that hard.

    1250 at 2.5s is 500 DPS.
    1980 at 4s is 495 DPS.

    Also means bigger crits.

    This is IRE, and this is Aetolia. A lot can happen in 4sec. Without speed, you can't run when agro walks in, for example.

    And yah, mimicking Leana, part of the balance of PvE was how well any particular class tanked. You don't tend to see tanky, multi-hit PvE classes.

    Which is the third point. Hitting multiple times with crits the way they are sets you apart from classes that don't. Overkill is nice start to closing that gap, but... there is a gap between classes that single attack and those that don't.

    And honestly? Templar strike is the way to go, unless you're in Xaanhal. The defense you get is worth it when you can handle Tcanna like a champ. It's fairly fast, has a boost in damage (that even affects sacrifice), and you can wear an artifact shield.

    Templar DSW is terrible. There's barely any extra damage, 2h doesn't affect sacrifice, and it's a lot slower.

    Edit

    Regarding Shapeshifter. Yah. You cut damage. That isn't fair when I still have very, very poor audit. I can't imagine what its like for newb shapeshifters who don't have bonus damage, bonus stats, bonus crit, or vocalizing. At least you didn't touch slash speed.

    Post edited by Kasimir on
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    4 seconds in PvE is...

    Almost my normal equilibrium time, fancy that. ;\
  • TedrunaiTedrunai Member, Immortal Posts: 154 Immortal
    @Leana the disparity between classes was too large. Sentinels were almost doubling the DPS of the bottom classes, for example. I'm not sure what you mean by unique experience - tbh bashing is a very one dimensional activity, beyond effectiveness there isn't much difference to the experiences between classes. Bringing the outliers closer to the mean ensures that players don't have to pick up another class and/or class switch if the class they want to play for PvP/RP/whatever happens to be one that sucks at bashing.

    Overall bashing effectiveness shouldn't have changed significantly, it's the outliers (those who were way better at bashing than everyone else and those who were way worse at bashing than everyone else) that got pulled in. This probably feels like a blanket nerf because people were gravitating towards the top-tier bashing classes, but Syssin, Indorani, and Shaman, for example, should find themselves buffed.

    Scepter was changed because it was just superior to over half the classes in the game, even artifacted - 19 stat was used as the point of comparison and Scepter was beating out most classes at 19 str/dex/int. At unartifacted levels (16 stat), Scepter easily beat out every single class except Sentinel (that also gives you an idea of how much of an outlier Sentinel was).

    Scepter remains a powerful choice - it's still better than any class bashing at unartifacted (16 stat) levels - but now there's a speed tradeoff, and artifacted bashing (19 stat) is competitive-to-better.

    @Kasimir big damage at slow speeds has its own advantages too. You one-shot more mobs with crits and overkills, so you get hit less often.

    Multi-hit superiority is largely a myth now from days gone by. Overkill has pretty much entirely bridged that gap. The only situation where single-hits waste damage is when your overkill damage more than one-shots the next mob, which is only really relevant for annihilating crits and the tail end of mutilating crits. Even in these situations, guaranteeing the one-shot means you get hit less often too. Plus the nature of combo classes means most of them are wasting damage too - Monks, for example, if they get the kill on their kick then they're still offbal for the entire combo time and don't get to convert potential spillover damage from their punches into overkill.
    LeanaSatomi
  • OonaghOonagh Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭
    I like the changes, when I told people as an unartifacted frog I was doing 1700-1800 with my staffcasts I got alot of ...

    O.O faces.

    Especially from Luminaries or other single attack classes.

    I am down to 1350ish which is still pretty good, and I think that it makes those who have purchased artifacts feel a little more like their money has probably went to something helpful, rather than...the... grumbles of yesteryear. Hopefully and this is how I perceive this, that this is the beginning in part to some larger overhauls, setting the field so that our good upstairs friends can tweak and make new exciting bashing content.

    Overall I would say to err on the side of patience, I dont think they are doing it to be meanyheads, ...maybe Diogen, but thats only when hes out of the shame tube, otherwise the rest of them are well behaved and thinking about the future just like we are!
    Oonagh has been slain by the might of the toxic atmosphere of Ulangi.
    LeanaTeani
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ya I mean at a casual check of my new damage/speed I'm not mad.




  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Tedrunai said:

    @Leana the disparity between classes was too large. Sentinels were almost doubling the DPS of the bottom classes, for example. I'm not sure what you mean by unique experience - tbh bashing is a very one dimensional activity, beyond effectiveness there isn't much difference to the experiences between classes. Bringing the outliers closer to the mean ensures that players don't have to pick up another class and/or class switch if the class they want to play for PvP/RP/whatever happens to be one that sucks at bashing.

    Overall bashing effectiveness shouldn't have changed significantly, it's the outliers (those who were way better at bashing than everyone else and those who were way worse at bashing than everyone else) that got pulled in. This probably feels like a blanket nerf because people were gravitating towards the top-tier bashing classes, but Syssin, Indorani, and Shaman, for example, should find themselves buffed.

    Scepter was changed because it was just superior to over half the classes in the game, even artifacted - 19 stat was used as the point of comparison and Scepter was beating out most classes at 19 str/dex/int. At unartifacted levels (16 stat), Scepter easily beat out every single class except Sentinel (that also gives you an idea of how much of an outlier Sentinel was).

    Scepter remains a powerful choice - it's still better than any class bashing at unartifacted (16 stat) levels - but now there's a speed tradeoff, and artifacted bashing (19 stat) is competitive-to-better.

    I appreciate the reply. It means a lot to me that the people behind the game listen. I'm glad that classes that were underperforming got buffed and thankful that fun is the backbone of the changes.

    What I meant by unique experience is each class has a unique method of bashing, with different strengths and abilities to use during for survival. The least fun aspect of bashing is having to run out of the room, recover, or just die because you happened to find four enemies when you can barely handle two. The level 99+ areas are all wildly different and it's difficult to judge strength anymore. Nal'jin feels like a lvl 70 zone, Dovan feels like a lvl 200 zone.

    You're right that bashing is very one-dimensional, but that's because our only method of interaction is the bash attack of choice. We can't afflict them like they do to us, shield (because all sentients instantly hammer you), or any other ability to stall combat to heal. A class like Shaman has the ability to just ignore damage from a source every so often or a Monk can soak up damage and stagger it after dropping a percentage. Things like that which make the bashing unique and better for classes which may not have as powerful an attack. I bashed as Cabalist, despite doing 1100 dmg, because I felt immortal and could just tank and move along. Same reason I hunted as Teradrim or Vampire (before the nerf), I didn't need to be completely engaged and stressed about dying and could focus on other matters. When I hunted as Syssin I tended to prefer magic attacking enemies and wore no armor, so I could dodge more. It probably didn't matter, but it was enjoyable to think and act that way.

    If all the classes deal significantly more damage, it won't change that aspect. I would still use Cabalist (were it around) for link, because survival is the important part to me. Not to everyone, of course, but I imagine a few people share my idea. I understand that more changes are coming and I assume they'll be aimed at survival/mob damage/gold/other fun stuff. I'm mostly using survival skills as an example to illustrate unique aspects of the class. That's what I was aiming at when I asked what the admin considered the ideal experience for hunting. What is our expected engagement with every bashing encounter? 100% awareness or less? Being able to disassociate a bit is a bonus!



  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Member, Guildmaster Posts: 2,058 mod
    The wp/end drain to scepter just FRIED my scepter bashing to the point that I think I'm gonna switch back to class skills. After a run through upper Xaanhal and the Forgotten Dome, my end/wp is: Endurance: 10178/32400 Willpower: 7163/23400

    You're only doing refunds for people who have bought it in the last month? : /
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I just want to put this out there. As monk, I like to wield my arti shield and use cobra sdk/sdk. Does maybe 200 less dmg, at most, than scorpion etc but lets you wield a shield for luls and defense.

    (edit) I think the perk with scepter is that it bypasses mob defenses, like in the volcano and such.

  • EvalyneEvalyne A CoffinMember Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    My first reaction to the post was "congratulations, I will now never bash on Mykellah ever again" Before it was miserable, now literally anything I could do with my time is going to be more productive.

    I really don't understand why the reaction to "PVE is unfun and a waste of time" was basically to make it even more unfun for most people.

    I mean, yeah, I'll admit that is a fairly off-the-cuff gut reaction, but I already struggle to make myself want to bash on Miki and now she's even more of a pain to bash on, so I probably will just play STO or something instead ifn I'm being honest.
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I mean, Teradrim is my strongest bashing class aside from Archivist and Carnifex, when it comes to survivability. My Teradrim damage went up by about 100-200 dmg a batter. That's using Stonefury Imbue + Major Blue Rune.

    Dunno man, I'd have to play a lifer to get a feel for the bashing there, but I'll probably class hop and see what the damages are for all my classes, now, with roughly 17-19 in the primary bashing stat.

    Numbers will be arriving in a few hours, since I don't want to lose my ability to edit a post before I finish (darned 1hour cooldown). For people who are interested, anyway.

    @Keroc For Wayfarer, I've been using Ravage with Desolation and Carve at range. Dunno if that should be taken into account.. but I'll run the numbers later for myself.
    Post edited by Satomi on

  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Evalyne said:

    My first reaction to the post was "congratulations, I will now never bash on Mykellah ever again" Before it was miserable, now literally anything I could do with my time is going to be more productive.

    I really don't understand why the reaction to "PVE is unfun and a waste of time" was basically to make it even more unfun for most people.

    I mean, yeah, I'll admit that is a fairly off-the-cuff gut reaction, but I already struggle to make myself want to bash on Miki and now she's even more of a pain to bash on, so I probably will just play STO or something instead ifn I'm being honest.

    I think you will be pleasantly surprised if you log in and go smite or lightning something.
  • LeanaLeana Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    What numbers should we expect? Without ylem bonuses like amulets or orbs?


  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    @Leana Pretty much. For EQ classes I'll show with and without crown, but I'm getting numbers for the classes at 17 of their attack stat, and that's pretty much it. I provide weapon stats for those classes, and such, but don't use any bonuses like amulets, orbs, hunting boons, etc.

    Classes are fully buffed with class skills (like potence, for Praenomen or Desolation for melee Wayfarer) though I can provide the numbers without those at a later time >.> (forgot to try without potence on Prae).

    Also, Enhanced for bal/eq depending on class focus.

    Edit: Omg, kill me.. Carnifex, why must you be so freakin difficult.. (proceeds to gather numbers for unfractured vs. fractured, polearm vs. warhammer, furor vs openings vs standard vs both, for unfractured and fractured warhammer and polearm, and then sneaks in a soul barrage test with 17 str vs 17 int)

    @Administration: Can there be a way to turn crits off? Like.. in config? I'm too strong with my almost 50% crit rate (unartied crit rate)

    Teaser:

    Syssin-
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+3) Dexterity : 15 Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 12(+1) Constitution : 16(+3) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Whip:
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 146 Penetration: 71 Speed: 123 Type: Cutting

    You use Assassination Garrote on a Githani master. - 457 dps
    Damage done: 1137, asphyxiation, brute
    Balance Used: 2.49 seconds

    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 15(+1) Dexterity : 17(+2) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 11 Constitution : 17(+4) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    You use Assassination Bite (camus) on a Githani master. - 462 dps
    Damage done: 1290, poison, agile
    Balance Used: 2.79 seconds


    Sciomancer-
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 11 Dexterity : 14(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 17(+2) Constitution : 16(+4) Statpack : Wise |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    You use Sciomancy Staffcast on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 1456, electric/fire/magic/cold, magical
    Equilibrium Used: 3.26 seconds -no crown- 447 dps
    Equilibrium Used: 3.01 seconds -crown- 484 dps

    You use Sciomancy Lash on a Githani inscriber. - 242 dps
    Damage done: 624, shadow, magical
    Equilibrium Used: 2.58 seconds
    Post edited by Satomi on

  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Forgive so many posts so condensed together, but this is what I have thus far.

    Above post has my parameters.

    Details are within the spoilers

    Carnifex - Top DPS = 639 Polearm / 615 Warhammer
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+2) Dexterity : 14(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 11 Constitution : 17(+5) Statpack : Muscular |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    ++Warhammer++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 123 Penetration: 72 Speed: 145 Type: Blunt

    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani inscriber. - 327 dps
    Damage done: 462, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 462, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 2.83 seconds

    Openings: - 490 dps
    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 693, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 693, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 2.83 seconds

    Furor: - 369 dps
    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 600, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 600, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.25 seconds

    Furor+Openings: - 554 dps
    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani master.
    Damage done: 901, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 901, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.25 seconds

    ++Fractured Warhammer++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 138 Penetration: 72 Speed: 145 Type: Blunt

    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani inscriber. - 362 dps
    Damage done: 512, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 512, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 2.83 seconds

    Openings: - 543 dps
    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 768, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 768, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 2.83 seconds

    Furor: - 410 dps
    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 666, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 666, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.25 seconds

    Furor+Openings: - 615 dps
    You use Savagery Doublebash on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 999, blunt, brute
    Damage done: 999, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.25 seconds


    ++Polearm++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 98 Penetration: 71 Speed: 167 Type: Cutting

    You use Savagery Spinning on a Githani inscriber. - 261 dps
    Damage done: 319, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 319, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.44 seconds

    ++Polearm++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 124 Penetration: 70 Speed: 146 Type: Cutting

    You use Savagery Spinning on a Githani grappler. - 334 dps
    Damage done: 414, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 414, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.48 seconds

    Openings: - 502 dps
    You use Savagery Spinning on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 622, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 622, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.48 seconds

    Furor: - 378 dps
    You use Savagery Spinning on a Githani master.
    Damage done: 539, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 539, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.85 seconds

    Furor+Openings: - 568 dps
    You use Savagery Spinning on a Githani master.
    Damage done: 810, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 810, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.85 seconds

    ++Fractured Polearm++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 139 Penetration: 70 Speed: 146 Type: Cutting

    You use Savagery Spinning on a Mit'olk axeman. - 376 dps
    Damage done: 466, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 466, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.48 seconds

    Openings: - 564 dps
    You use Savagery Spinning on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 699, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 699, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.48 seconds

    Furor: - 425 dps
    You use Savagery Spinning on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 606, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 606, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.85 seconds

    Furor+Openings: - 639 dps
    You use Savagery Spinning on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 910, cutting, brute
    Damage done: 910, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.85 seconds


    Sciomancer - Top DPS = 484 (crown) / 447 (no crown)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 11 Dexterity : 14(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 17(+2) Constitution : 16(+4) Statpack : Wise |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    You use Sciomancy Staffcast on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 1456, electric/fire/magic/cold, magical
    Equilibrium Used: 3.26 seconds -no crown- 447 dps
    Equilibrium Used: 3.01 seconds -crown- 484 dps

    You use Sciomancy Lash on a Githani inscriber. - 242 dps
    Damage done: 624, shadow, magical
    Equilibrium Used: 2.58 seconds


    Praenomen - Top DPS = 487 (potence)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+3) Dexterity : 15 Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 12(+1) Constitution : 16(+3) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    ++Fists++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: Overwhelming | Penetration: 0 | Speed: Too Fast, Too Furious | Type: Blunt

    You use Corpus Frenzy on a Githani master. (16 str) - 462 dps
    Damage done: 1507, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.26 seconds

    You use Corpus Frenzy on a Githani master. (17 str) - 487 dps
    Damage done: 1587, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.26 seconds


    Indorani - Top DPS = 457 (bonedagger) / 481 (crown decay) / 444 (no crown decay)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 11 Dexterity : 17(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 16(+3) Constitution : 15(+2) Statpack : Agile |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Bonedagger: - 457 dps
    You use Necromancy Bonedagger on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 1491, magic, agile
    Balance Used: 3.26 seconds

    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 11 Dexterity : 14(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 17(+2) Constitution : 14(+2) Statpack : Wise |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Decay: -
    You use Necromancy Decay on a Mit'olk axeman.
    Damage done: 1448, magic, magical
    Equilibrium Used: 3.26 seconds (no crown) - 444 dps
    Equilibrium Used: 3.01 seconds (crown) - 481 dps


    Monk - Top DPS = 582 (2.5s) to 265 (5.5s) dps range (panda sloshed) / 416 (scorpion) / 340 (cobra/shield wielded)
    ++PANDA STANCE++ low 2.58s | high 5.40s - Assumed extremes 2.5s - 5.5s
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+2) Dexterity : 14(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 11 Constitution : 16(+4) Statpack : Muscular |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Horse Stance: - 321 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 510, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 306, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 306, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds

    Eagle Stance: - 293 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 344, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 2.70 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 223, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 2.70 seconds
    Damage done: 223, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 2.70 seconds

    Cat Stance: - 218 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 385, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 4.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 244, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 4.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 244, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 4.00 seconds

    Bear Stance: - 321 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 468, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 327, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 327, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds


    ++PANDA STANCE++ low 2.58s | high 5.40s - Assumed extremes 2.5s - 5.5s

    Panda Stance (Sober): - 415 dps to 189 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 468, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 4.81 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.39 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 4.17 seconds

    Panda Stance (flushed): - 459 dps to 209 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk axeman.
    Damage done: 523, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 4.85 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk axeman.
    Damage done: 312, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 4.99 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk axeman.
    Damage done: 312, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.42 seconds

    Panda Stance (tipsy): - 476 dps to 216 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 543, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.27 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 323, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 4.06 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 323, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.17 seconds

    Panda Stance (buzzed): - 499 dps to 227 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 573, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 4.14 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 337, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 4.41 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 337, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 4.33 seconds

    Panda Stance (soused): - 552 dps to 251 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 639, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 4.43 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 370, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 4.17 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 370, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.18 seconds

    Panda Stance (trashed): - 556 dps to 251 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 643, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 4.15 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 373, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.33 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 373, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.80 seconds

    Panda Stance (sloshed): - 582 dps to 265 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 677, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 4.27 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 389, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 4.86 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 389, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 4.55 seconds

    Panda Stance (drowning): - 582 dps to 265 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 677, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.52 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 389, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.40 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk illusionist.
    Damage done: 389, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.85 seconds

    Panda Stance (anvil hammered): - 582 dps to 265 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 677, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.23 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 389, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.43 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 389, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.11 seconds

    Rat Stance: - 374 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 510, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 306, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 306, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds

    Scorpion Stance: - 416 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 593, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 327, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    Damage done: 327, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds

    Cobra Stance (With Shield): - 340 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 510, blunt, brute
    Left Leg Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 510, blunt, brute
    Right Leg Balance Used: 3.00 seconds

    Phoenix Stance: - 297 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 468, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds

    Tiger Stance: - 285 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 427, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.50 seconds

    Wolf Stance: - 374 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 552, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    Damage done: 285, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds

    Dragon Stance: - 388 dps
    You use Tekura Sidekick on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 552, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk axeman.
    Damage done: 306, blunt, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk axeman.
    Damage done: 306, blunt, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 3.00 seconds

    (fun fact)
    You use Tekura Uppercut on a Mit'olk bladesman.
    You miss completely and stumble over.
    You ease yourself out of the Panda stance.
    --balance knock--
    You use Tekura Kipup (panda).
    Lurching off the floor, you stumble backwards slightly and resume your stance.

    Syssin - Top DPS = 457 (garrote) / 462 (camus)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+3) Dexterity : 15 Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 12(+1) Constitution : 16(+3) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    ++Whip++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 146 Penetration: 71 Speed: 123 Type: Cutting

    You use Assassination Garrote on a Githani master. - 457 dps
    Damage done: 1137, asphyxiation, brute
    Balance Used: 2.49 seconds

    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 15(+1) Dexterity : 17(+2) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 11 Constitution : 17(+4) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    You use Assassination Bite (camus) on a Githani master. - 462 dps
    Damage done: 1290, poison, agile
    Balance Used: 2.79 seconds


    Shapeshifter - Top DPS = 445 (double slash) / 222 (single slash)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+3) Dexterity : 16(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 11 Constitution : 17(+4) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    You use Ferality Slash on a Githani master. - 445 dps (double slash)
    You rake a Githani master with your talons.
    Damage done: 589, cutting, brute
    Left Hand Balance Used: 2.65 seconds

    You use Ferality Slash on a Githani master. - 222 dps (single slash)
    You rake a Githani master with your talons.
    Damage done: 589, cutting, brute
    Right Hand Balance Used: 2.65 seconds


    Teradrim - Top DPS = 489 (Batter) / 503 (skullbash)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+3) Dexterity : 16(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 11 Constitution : 18(+5) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    ++Flail++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 178 Penetration: 89 Speed: 71 Type: Blunt

    You use Terramancy Batter on a Githani inscriber. - 489 dps
    Damage done: 1251, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 2.56 seconds

    You use Terramancy Skullbash on a Githani inscriber. - 503 dps
    Damage done: 1805, blunt, brute
    Balance Used: 3.59 seconds


    Wayfarer - Top DPS = 472 (Chop w/o Desolation) / 221 (single axe lobs) / 442 (dual axe lobs)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 17(+3) Dexterity : 17(+2) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 11 Constitution : 16(+3) Statpack : Athletic |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    ++Handaxes++
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 177 Penetration: 90 Speed: 70 Type: Cutting
    You are proficient with this weapon.
    Damage: 176 Penetration: 90 Speed: 71 Type: Cutting

    Ravage (with Desolation): - 285 dps
    You use Tenacity Ravage on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 883, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 3.10 seconds

    Ravage: - 307 dps
    You use Tenacity Ravage on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 883, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 2.88 seconds

    Carve: - 453 dps / 294 dps (if you include the axe return)
    You use Tenacity Carve on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 883, cutting, agile
    Balance Used: 1.95 seconds
    Axes Returned: 3 seconds

    Chop (with Desolation): - 438 dps
    You use Tenacity Chop on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 849, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 1.94 seconds

    Chop: - 472 dps
    You use Tenacity Chop on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 849, cutting, brute
    Balance Used: 1.80 seconds

    Lob: - 442 dps (dual axe) / 221 dps (single axe)
    You use Tenacity Lob on a Githani inscriber.
    Damage done: 442, cutting, agile
    Balance Used: 0.97 seconds
    Axes Returned: 2 seconds


    Archivist - Top DPS = 440 (no crown) / 477 (crown)
    + High Reaver Satomi Lunare, Amethyst ------------------------------------+
    | Strength : 11 Dexterity : 14(+1) Timeout : 10 minutes |
    | Intelligence : 17(+2) Constitution : 14(+2) Statpack : Wise |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Crux:
    You flip through a small codex and open it before you.
    You use Geometrics Crux on a Githani grappler.
    Damage done: 1436, psychic, magical
    Equilibrium Used: 3.26 seconds (no crown) - 440 dps
    Equilibrium Used: 3.01 seconds (crown) - 477 dps


    Post edited by Satomi on

    LeanaVyxsisOonaghTeani
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    thanks for putting all that together @Satomi
    Indoran'i is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
    An Atzob cultist says, "Is a shamatato as tasty as a potato?"
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    The mighty Jy'Barrak Golgotha opens his maw, catches the glowing spear in his many jagged teeth, and chomps down. The Divine spear breaks with a noise like thunder, shards toppling from the Emperor's jaws. "OM NOM NOM!" He declares, then spits the last of the ruined weapon from his lips.




  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I want to preface this by saying I probably should have just used max damage forged weapons for all the classes, to make a constant... but I didn't think of that until I reached Indorani/Archivist and I'm sure an admin can tell me if my information is misleading due to it. (hopes its not, but will retest if necessary... damned carnifex..) It really only applies to Carnifex and Syssin, since Wayfarer and Teradrim were being used with max damage weapons.

    To be honest with you guys, Wayfarer dual lob is now my favorite fighting style. The only problem is that you have to be careful about dying, I would imagine, since you use queue a fair bit more if you want to optimize your lobs with both axes. I don't even care that it is slightly weaker than Chopping. It's just so 'cool'. Just learn queue clearing and such and you should be fine.

    Carnifex was a pain in the unicorns. They are definitely top when it comes to Shadow Bashing because of the sheer amount of bonuses to their dmg that can be given to them, just from their class. Being able to completely block damage every so often is nice, too, and their audit isn't Teradrim level, but it's pretty decent. I was annoyed that Soul Barrage wasn't working on NPCs, even with my soulstone unified. Sooo... I said screw it and moved on.

    Monk was a bit silly. Don't be fooled by the Panda Stance damage. Honestly? You'll be stumbling for about 50% of those hits. That said, if you get to Soused, the fumble rate is low enough that it is almost unnoticeable. You still get some solid dps from that too (nowhere near Fex at max dps) Also, a note. I feel like drunkenness has a system in place that is like.. say.. there are 20 'lights' for drunkenness. Every sip turns on a light, with the drunken states being spaced out like with 2 lights between each. All that said, the damage is really just an aproximation, depending on where I was at on the drunken scale within those drunk states.

    Monk, poor monk, though. At the bottom of the list. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me. They have a much higher chance for crits because they hit so many freakin times. This was honestly the hardest class to test, because I kept.. critting.. so... damned.. much! Plus you know.. all the stances to test for.

    Sciomancer is in a bit of a worse place, now. It's pretty slow, though still around Praenomen speed, but doesn't have anything like potence to boost the dmg. That said, I genuinely forgot to test if Potence even affects bashing for Praenomen, though if it does, then we'll just stick with those numbers. (I'll test later, for that one) With crown, Sciomancer is on par with the rest of the classes.

    Teradrim is still ridiculously defensive, despite not having top dps spot. I mean, honestly, it doesn't need it with the sheer amount of defensive power and audit it has.

    Indorani didn't surprise me. Unartied, Bonedagger is definitely better, but artied, decay is just quicker. Putrefaction adds 25% to cutting and 10% to blunt, though, so if you want a balanced audit.. get high blunt resist armor.

    Syssin, again, pretty lackluster.. that said, I was surprised Camus is more effective than Garrote. Again, though, could be a result of my whip's stats... also, it wouldn't surprise me if it was because Camus uses venoms just to do damage, which is a resource you have to pay for to restock and such.

    Shapeshifter and Praenomen were kinda meh. They exist, I guess? Praenomen just has to be aware that they start to burn when not at 100% blood, so.. prepare to buuuuurn, and the damage that that entails. Shapeshifter, though, pretty much needs howling to give them some passive healing. Otherwise, they're completely reliant on tattoos, anabiotic, and health.. which isn't much, at the higher end. I also want to put this out there. Shapeshifter Audit isn't bad. Want to know who has a bad audit? Freakin Wayfarers, if they don't use shields... but I honestly didn't look at audit (going off memory). I'd say that Monk and Wayfarers have less physical audit than Shapeshifter, though, since Shapeshifters effectively get 40% armor from their pelt. I can rank audits another month though, unless everyone gets up in arms and demands it or something lol.

    Archivist isn't as complex as a lot of the other classes. Decent damage (pretty high up with crown, contends with the top easily) though, it has one advantage. A great Audit, and Link. You lose nothing by investing into Int, though Con is still essential (of course). Link mitigates damage by about 25% of the damage. The class also has a few fun perks to it from Bioessence.

    With Link:
    A Githani inscriber thrusts his palm out at you and discharges a small burst of
    energy, the blast jolting you backward.
    Total Lost: 745
    Health Lost: 559, magic, none (about 75% of the total damage)
    Mana Lost: 186 (about 25% of the total damage)


    All this being said, it's done. Enjoy. I'll consider redoing Syssin and Carnifex if the @Keroc @Tiur @Tedrunai find my results inaccurate, in any way. This was all tested at 17 stat, which is generally obtainable by everyone in the game, if you lucky out with stars and such, or with a white amulet otherwise. Figure it's a fair assessment of unartied endgamers, unless my level is contributing to the dmg (cause Lv. 125)

    Also, Vyxsis brought to my attention that it could be possible that some values can feel inflated if you've spent a lot of time teaching newbies class skills, depending on how skillranks buff our bashing output. Admins would have to confirm or deny if an over-buffed skillset through teaching contributes or not.
    Post edited by Satomi on

    Vyxsis
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 575 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm suddenly finding myself confused: Isn't Desolation supposed to INCREASE the damage of melee axe attacks? Did you get your numbers mixed up @Satomi? Am I misreading? Or did Desolation LOWER your dps by slowing you down without increasing the damage of your ravage and chop?

    Or does Desolation only function against players?
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Cute-Kelli by @Sessizlik.
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    @Kelliara Desolation raises the balance cooldown, but doesn't alter the damage. I was just as shocked as you, since I had Desolation set to have me auto-melee when it was active. I guess my decision to turn those defenses into manual only was a good one.

    My guess is that with the changes to bashing damage, Desolation now only affects attacks on players.

  • KerocKeroc A small cupboardMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 426 admin
    You may want to test Carnifex again, I had to change some things for them as max damage weapons were superior over the standard 120-140 range.

    Also yes, Desolate does not work in PvE for the time being. I should've mentioned this in the post but it slipped my mind.

  • MordionMordion Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    I'm pretty green as far as aetolia is concerned (but not mudding by any means) so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd like to give my perspective on the current state of pve. When I first started and looked into the skill trees for each guild I have to say it was pretty exciting to see all those abilities. That said, I can't even begin to describe the let down it was when I discovered that about 98% of those skills couldn't be used in pve. Am I the only one who has a problem with that? I understand the reasoning behind why afflictions and such would be very difficult to balance against NPCs but even minions, ranged attacks, and such?

    For me, one thing that would make pve more enjoyable would be to make more abilities useful in pve than just the "bashing" attack. Not on the level of PVP where you need to be a master coder to even compete, but at least make it so that minions can assist, SOME sort of skills that could stun (with reasonable cooldowns) or something from a limited pool of afflictions per class, disarm, sunder defenses, etc. I'm just throwing ideas out there but my point is basically that hitting one button doesn't stay entertaining for very long.
    Unofficial Founder of the Cult of Tiur
    Zaila
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 647 admin
    Mordion said:

    I'm pretty green as far as aetolia is concerned (but not mudding by any means) so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd like to give my perspective on the current state of pve. When I first started and looked into the skill trees for each guild I have to say it was pretty exciting to see all those abilities. That said, I can't even begin to describe the let down it was when I discovered that about 98% of those skills couldn't be used in pve. Am I the only one who has a problem with that? I understand the reasoning behind why afflictions and such would be very difficult to balance against NPCs but even minions, ranged attacks, and such?

    For me, one thing that would make pve more enjoyable would be to make more abilities useful in pve than just the "bashing" attack. Not on the level of PVP where you need to be a master coder to even compete, but at least make it so that minions can assist, SOME sort of skills that could stun (with reasonable cooldowns) or something from a limited pool of afflictions per class, disarm, sunder defenses, etc. I'm just throwing ideas out there but my point is basically that hitting one button doesn't stay entertaining for very long.

    This is pretty common across IRE. It used to be fixed by having different skills inside the skillset for bashing... but that put a heavy impetus on buying credits. We're working on other things in the future, like pvp roles and other skills that work on mobiles... But expect that to be both in and out of guildskills.
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