The Official Wiki

Haven

They're at least updating AFFLICTION <affliction> with necessary information on what each affliction does! Not completely done but they're getting there much to my delight.

Lin

I've been intending to create pages for each individual skill, much like what we had set up in the Ankyrean Archives. There would be a template supplied to fill in balance used, balance times, afflictions delivered, etc. and then of course you could fill in whatever else you wanted.

Actually getting around to doing it when I've got so much on my plate is another story.

Macavity

@lin I would so work on the Teradrim ones for sure if a template was created!

Oleis

The ease of the Affliction system comes from the fact that the majority of that information needs to be coded in for the game to function.

The AB files would require manual data mining at every step of the process. While I try to be as thorough as possible in my documentation, I'm daunted by the thought of collecting all that information (and deciphering it from the complicated formulas in use by Rapture), to say nothing of maintaining it when changes are made in Liaison or hotfix rounds.

I definitely understand where you're coming from, though. I'm hopeful that we can find some solution that helps you crunch numbers without delaying our other priorities too badly.

Macavity

@oleis any thoughts on allowing a group of us to update the AB files ourselves with approval system like the crafting guild or what not??  I mean a lot of us would be willing to assist with at least the writing of them, they could even go for final approval by the pools

Oleis

Macavity said:

@oleis any thoughts on allowing a group of us to update the AB files ourselves with approval system like the crafting guild or what not??  I mean a lot of us would be willing to assist with at least the writing of them, they could even go for final approval by the pools

We already have a similar (if rarely-used) system in place with the liaisons, in which they submit edits for approval/rejection. The primary issue is extracting the appropriate data from the code itself.

Daskalos

I'd love for guilds to be able to edit AB files. Just sayin', we could add pertinent information, integrate it with our RP, the whole nine yards. 

Calipso

Macavity said:

@oleis any thoughts on allowing a group of us to update the AB files ourselves with approval system like the crafting guild or what not??  I mean a lot of us would be willing to assist with at least the writing of them, they could even go for final approval by the pools

I felt like the Syssin Venom skill was sort of getting that treatment when I was looking over its early abilities, but then it all disappears. It feels like a project that was abandoned. Here are some examples:

Venom - Sumac

Syntax: SECRETE SUMAC

A translucent fluid with a faint, green sheen, this venom causes minor damage, much like the small
serpent that wields it, but can still be dangerous. Sumac cannot be spit onto weapons or arrows.

"They swarmed us...like a bunch of rats...invisible...venomous...rats..."

Venom - Purge

Syntax: PURGE

Purges the venom from your bloodstream, preventing it from afflicting you.

"Poison the poisoners? Come now...their blood runs thick with the stuff. Might as well try and drown
the nymphs in their streams." - Ex-guard of Spinesreach

Venom - Bite

Syntax: BITE

Bite your victim, injecting venom into his bloodstream. Be warned, the slick coating of the sileris
berry will prevent you from biting your foe.

"The bite of the serpent is deadly, the Syssin, doubly so." - Anonymous


They go on for the next 4 abilities in Venom, then just disappear. They seemed so wonderful and flavorful. It really seemed like it gave color and context to the venom skill and syssin class. I just wonder why they didnt continue them .

Ezalor

Yeah, I think it might not be a bad idea to allow for guilds to submit edits to their AB files. Would have to be approved up high, of course, but I think the job description of a liaison doesn't exactly match up with writing AB files, even if they have the power to do so.

Hematurgy is dreadfully outdated and most of the rituals are just straight up wrong in their AB files.

Lin

Calipso said:

Macavity said:

@oleis any thoughts on allowing a group of us to update the AB files ourselves with approval system like the crafting guild or what not??  I mean a lot of us would be willing to assist with at least the writing of them, they could even go for final approval by the pools

I felt like the Syssin Venom skill was sort of getting that treatment when I was looking over its early abilities, but then it all disappears. It feels like a project that was abandoned. Here are some examples:

Venom - Sumac

Syntax: SECRETE SUMAC

A translucent fluid with a faint, green sheen, this venom causes minor damage, much like the small
serpent that wields it, but can still be dangerous. Sumac cannot be spit onto weapons or arrows.

"They swarmed us...like a bunch of rats...invisible...venomous...rats..."

Venom - Purge

Syntax: PURGE

Purges the venom from your bloodstream, preventing it from afflicting you.

"Poison the poisoners? Come now...their blood runs thick with the stuff. Might as well try and drown
the nymphs in their streams." - Ex-guard of Spinesreach

Venom - Bite

Syntax: BITE

Bite your victim, injecting venom into his bloodstream. Be warned, the slick coating of the sileris
berry will prevent you from biting your foe.

"The bite of the serpent is deadly, the Syssin, doubly so." - Anonymous


They go on for the next 4 abilities in Venom, then just disappear. They seemed so wonderful and flavorful. It really seemed like it gave color and context to the venom skill and syssin class. I just wonder why they didnt continue them .

Galleus asked me to write those years ago. I actually had a flavor blurb for every venom but for some reason, he never finished putting them in.

Angwe

That's so cool

If you do the template, I'll do the Sentinel stuff.

Macavity

Oleis said:

Macavity said:

@oleis any thoughts on allowing a group of us to update the AB files ourselves with approval system like the crafting guild or what not??  I mean a lot of us would be willing to assist with at least the writing of them, they could even go for final approval by the pools

We already have a similar (if rarely-used) system in place with the liaisons, in which they submit edits for approval/rejection. The primary issue is extracting the appropriate data from the code itself.

**Clearly this is a topic that may need to be split off and debated about on its own as it does not seem to fit within the Wiki page that this thread was intended

@Oleis since, and to quote you "if rarely-used", is the situation we are currently in, then would it not make better sense to look into a newer updated system.  I mean consider this from a newbie prospective when they are new they are told to learn up to such and such skill and they find their way to looking at the AB files, files that may excite them or not based on what skills they can have access to.  If they get to that skill and find it does not work as intended based on the written description then they could get mad and quit the guild, or worse the game and not come back.  

I really think there needs to be a paradigm shift within Aetolia in fixing not only the AB files but also help files as well.  I mean of course balancing skills, combat and fixing bugs is also a high priority but for something that is informational that the Guilds already use GHELP for information and have full control over that, plus HELP (guild), HELP GUILDNOVICE (guild), HELP LAWS (guild) and other information pertaining to the guild, I do not see that it would be a far reach to allow the guild to update their own classes AB files.  I agree with @Daskalos in that it could also involve the RP behind the guild and bring a richer interaction to the player base environment.  Of course there would be issues with Praenomen and soon the Lycans when/if their Guilds are ever destroyed, but I am sure those can be ironed out to involve the Houses or Packs.  

I keep seeing/hearing that the pools do not have enough people to get all the projects done, but when the player base steps up and says hey we want to help, we are told no.  I really believe that there are some of us who have been playing the game for years upon years, could do a very nice job at this, and there is nothing stopping the pools from putting in rules and guide lines so there is not a lot of OOC information, formula information, or any other information You all deem not worthy to be in there.

Worse case, make a backup of all the AB files and then try it out, if the Pools do not like what They see then restore the backups and clear it all out.  At least we gave it a good try at resolving an issue that clearly needs to be looked at.

Lin

I'm really happy for you Macavity, and I'mma let you finish, but giving poor Oleis the third degree here is kinda like bitching at a McDonald's cashier about the prices of their food.

Macavity

Lin said:

I'm really happy for you Macavity, and I'mma let you finish, but giving poor Oleis the third degree here is kinda like bitching at a McDonald's cashier about the prices of their food.

My apologies, but it was not meant to sound like the third degree. I just giving an honest opinion.  Sorry @Oleis if I came over as harsh.

Oleis

I appreciate the defense, the apology, and the fine opinions equally. It's tricky to scare me off.

In terms of making sure the mechanics and lore of a skill are accurately represented in an AB file, I actually think you're spot on, @Macavity. There's no reason we can't look into offering that option to guild leadership with lots of oversight and see how it goes, and it's something I'll talk about with Raz.

My skeptical comments were primarily intended for the suggestion that we include things like base damage, resource use and equilibrium times. That's a lot of helpful information to have but it's genuinely impossible for players to access. Hopefully that clears it up.

(@Lin: as someone who is now the first line of defense for cashiers being grilled about Starbucks price increases, I thoroughly enjoyed your comparison.)

Lin

I'm making a number of additions geared toward helping newer users get started with editing.

The help page (the one you see when you click Help while attempting to edit a page) is making its gradual transformation from a poor copy/paste of the help on Ankyrean Archives, to its own useful document.

To-do: Write a style guide!

Atrapoema

I'd much rather those who can update ABs were volunteers chosen akin to Liaisons and Guides and, therefore, paid for their work, rather than heaping it on GMs. I'm just not comfortable leaving lore updates in the hands of a guild, even with proper oversight, and I think there will be less emotional investment from volunteers. It also means GMs don't have more unnecessary work on their hands, and yet another flimsy reason to contest them -- we all know it would happen.

Xavin

As a note, if you see an AB file that needs changed, message a liaison about it and include the change that should be made in as much detail as possible. We -can- put in for AB changes.

Xavin

is the wiki being actively updated still? what sort of policy is in place for character pages? is there a certain format we should follow?

Alexina

http://wiki.aetolia.com/Portal:Culture

I saw this page and just sort of found it a bit silly to have a link to Aetolia's 'sexual climate' (even though this page does not even exist yet) on the official wikipedia. Not that sex is bad, but like, the closest comparison I could think of would be Blizzard putting in a page about sexual climate for World of Warcraft or something like that. It's not really something I think needs to be included as part of the official resources. Why not have a blurb about cuisine or art (bardics/artisanals) or just about anything else instead?

Angwe

Wat.

I'm sure that was someone's idea of a joke.

I'm resisting the urge to:

1. Open the door.
2. Get on the floor.
3. Everybody walk the dinosaur.

Xavin

Regarding the sexual climate page, maybe they meant in regards to gender roles or some such thing? I would think we would try to shy away from jokes like that on the game's official wiki. That's the sort of stuff Ankyrean Archives is for.

Alexina

Well, the problem is that if a new player decides to check out the official wiki, they're going to asume it's full of information rather than jokes. Which is why I felt it is weird to have a link to Aetolia's sexual climate in it.

Slyphe

Yeaaah, that's now a thing of the past. 

Arbre

Thank you, @Slyphe, for editing that out.

Xavin

So uh...back to my original question, is there a policy on what all goes in player character pages?

Teani

@Xavin: I believe Lin provided me with a template thing when I had made mine. Just go check it out.

Solaria

@Xavin: Same as Teani. Here is mine: http://wiki.aetolia.com/Solaria

Areka

Plz 2 delete player pages. While a non-snark version of AA may be a nice thought, I don't feel that they have any place on the official wiki, especially not without stricter regulations/guidelines/editing.

Alexina

Alright. I sort of felt like I wanted to comment on this. I just looked through the character pages and this is a quote from Solaria's page:

"She did leave the Shamans eventually, after feeling just off-kilter there. When the Feral Will situation handled, she had felt pressured by Arbre to the extreme enough that she just felt uncomfortable. After that, Solaria's connection to the spirits gradually weakened and she felt that she needed to simply find a new home."

Basically, using the official wiki to take shots at other characters seems really inappropriate. I'm not even sure what the history is between Solaria and Arbre so I can't really comment about that, but just reading through that paragraph makes me think that Arbre must be a really bad person for pressuring people to leave. It might not have been intended to come across in this manner, but it sort of does.

The other thing I wanted to ask about is the brief player biographies. It might be that I've come from games that had higher IC/OOC separation than Aetolia, but this is one of those things that seem iffy to me because it just is not relevant to the game at all. There's people that obviously think including character information on the wiki is a bad thing; adding player biographies on top of that seems even more questionable. I suppose I want to log into the game and think 'ah, that is Belzebob the imp juggler' and not 'ah, that is Belzebob the South American taxi driver.' Just my opinion.