Minors extract too fast?

Rammus

I think minors should take longer to extract and maybe give a little more ylem.  I don't know about you guys but I know I've noticed someone doing minors and they just autowalk around the world and they stop for maybe like the 15 seconds it takes to extract one, then continue so it is like impossible to fight them.  Either this or make foci in between lessers/minors that spawn maybe once every 30 minutes or an hour?

Thoughts?

Lanira

I think it's probably alright to have a foci type that doesn't require defending. A new type, or having lessers spawn more often makes sense to me.

Rammus

I suppose you're right, It is just very boring for me having to wait 3 hours for potential PK a lot of the time, especially when many times it doesn't even happen at all once the lesser does pop.

Xavin

I don't know. If you know someone is running leylines it's not all that difficult to get them. And it doesn't seem uncommon to see multiple people attack a single person running minors.

Periluna

Xavin said:

I don't know. If you know someone is running leylines it's not all that difficult to get them. And it doesn't seem uncommon to see multiple people attack a single person running minors.

^This. I know Ellenia and Azton used to go after me quite a bit when I ran minors. Just notice the people that do them and keep an eye out. Typically, noncoms do minors as they are less challenging than lessers, but if you enjoy being a bit of a bully, then have at it.

Rammus

Why does a pvp mechanic have a need to cater to noncoms? Go bash or quest or RP?

Xavin, I don't know if you are trolling or what.

Aldric

Xavin said:

I don't know. If you know someone is running leylines it's not all that difficult to get them. And it doesn't seem uncommon to see multiple people attack a single person running minors.

Yeah, in my getting more into the ylem system lately (and even before that) I have yet to be jumped for going after minors. I've attempted to attack a single person I caught doing it before, but the minors end so quickly that they've got plenty of time to finish it off and run. There's really nothing to fight over, since typically even if you do manage to scare them off the point is long past tapped. 

If you're attacking over a minor, you're doing it for the fight alone. Considering most non-combatants (myself included just for Illidan's sake) tend to go after the minors as a way to participate, they/we aren't likely to stick around for a fight anyway.

Elwyn

I've been jumped on a number of occasions while searching for minors. Only died once or twice though. You can chase, the aura takes a few to fade and everyone is open PK as long as they have an aura. I wouldn't want to see minors get changed in a way that would make it almost impossible for me to go help out the Council with Ylem as I do not fight nor do I want to learn how but it still allows me to help. If you kill me while I was out doing minors, eh, it's the risk of doing them. I'd be okay with lessers spawning faster though.

Kiyotan

Minors may only last 10-15 seconds, but the open-PK aura lasts for two minutes. Wanting the length of extraction time extended is essentially asking for a coded reason to prevent players from running (at least for another few seconds). Which is pointless, because runners gonna run regardless.

Rammus

Ok so if runner runs, then they don't get the foci, that's the point.  I understand how aura works people, just because they have the aura does not mean they are killable.  You know this Kiyotan, I've chased you after minors a bunch of times and you just autowalk away to the next one.

I don't understand the reason you all keep talking about auras, it isn't relevant to minor foci combat unless the person is willing to sit still.  All that happens is person gets aura, I locate person, I track to that person, I get to the room they were at and meanwhile, they are 5 areas away because of celerity/grace/gallop/dash etc. Then I repeat until they stop at a minor and I hope to get to them before the extraction is gone to attack before this process repeats itself.  Then any sane person gives up.

Daskalos

There are many, many ways to turn minors into real combat. I've had it happen to me, and i've done it to others. You just need to be more creative than 'chase them'. Set a trap. If they're running the map, it should be fairly easy to get ahead of them.

Rammus

You can't be serious. Anything short of massively teaming them is not going to hold them down.

Arbre

...I had a long fight with Xiuhcoatl over a minor not long ago.

Rammus

That happens if people doing the minors are willing to fight, otherwise that is totally irrelevant and provides nothing to this topic.

Arbre

I generally am not - it's only that I noticed I had a chance of winning that I stuck around.  I guess I should say rather that I've been jumped and killed at leylines just like you jumped and killed me for the enemy status a bit back - I wasn't holding still and you managed to track me down and catch me.

Rammus

The entire topic has gotten pretty convoluted at this point, all I am saying is that for a PK mechanic in the game, it really doesn't give you an option to contest the foci.

Periluna

Rammus said:

like impossible to fight them.  

I believe this is what we are all responding to, not the '15 seconds it takes to extract' part. We are saying - It is possible to fight them. 

Also, what Daskalos said. If you notice someone checked say... Mor then Raim Vale, the next OBVIOUS place they'll look is Mournhold. So.... you go before them. 

Lin

No guys, you don't get it. Rammus can't catch them and it's not fun PK so you're totally wrong and even a little off-topic.

Luna

It's not entirely clear that -minor- foci are intended to spark a whole lot of PK. Rammus keeps referring to them as a "PK mechanic", but the fact is that shortly after ylem was released, they were changed into their current incarnation from an earlier variant that took three times as long- essentially making it far harder to contest a minor focus than it previously was. With this in mind, I'd argue that minor foci aren't really designed to force 1v1 pvp at all, even though they give participants an -opportunity- to do so with the ylem auras- you can claim the design is bad, but you can't make a reasonable claim that it isn't working as intended.

Whether this should be the case is a different discussion entirely. Currently minoring, along with running around clearing up elds, is the only way to generate ylem without much risk of dying to pvp (even though the risk is still theoretically present). I'm not sure that this is a thing that needs to be remedied.

Seir

Minors seem fine. I agree with Luna and some of the above folks that there needs to be a mechanic where people who aren't PK-centric in their characters can participate and do their part with their city in regards to ylem. There's an adequate amount of risk if you're being watched, but I ultimately think that the risk involved with minor foci matches the reward.

Daskalos

Rammus said:

You can't be serious. Anything short of massively teaming them is not going to hold them down.

 

 

I'm dead serious. There is a way, with no teaming, that you can set an easy trap by getting ahead of them. You're a smart guy, I know you can figure this out.

Lanira

There's no way to force 1v1 fights, and there probably never will be. If they don't want to fight, they're probably going to get away. There should always be a low risk way of helping your city out that involves actually leaving it. It's not as if they're making away with mountains of ylem. The opportunities for greater reward are what need to involve greater risk, which we have, but perhaps the issue is either we just don't have enough of them or they don't happen often enough. Obviously I'm specifically referring to foci, but I do feel aetolia needs more forms of -optional- conflict that have tangible rewards.

Rammus

K I give up on this thread, I'm done being trolled by noncoms.

Illikaal

I think this thread is less about minors and more about someone being upset about how easy it is to escape combat. Of course, this is not coming from someone who doesn't trigger blackwind from starburst or soulcage to escape combat himself. Not at all.

The sad truth in aetolia is that if you don't want to die, let alone fight, you don't have to. This game encourages self sufficiency without putting yourself in harms way (custom clouds/havens/cities). Theres nothing that can be said at this point except, well. Deal with it.

Seir

Rammus said:

K I give up on this thread, I'm done being trolled by noncoms.

Pretty sure Lanira, Illidan, Daskalos, myself, and Luna are not non-combatants. We just disagree with you. You shouldn't resort to ad hominum when people calmly explain their reasoning behind why they're disagreeing with your stance. I agree with Daskalos in that I can think of a way how a Vampire, or any one for that matter, could fool an automated script and take advantage of that fact if they're out hunting for leylines.

Daskalos

If you think I'm a noncom, I'll be happy to fight you IG next time I see you. Do not confuse 'not a pk whore' with 'non-com'.

I don't even hide my honors. The '#1 in Combat Rankings' thingy? Yea, I was the first person to get it, in the new system, when everyone was trying to get it. I went 39-0.

Arbre

Daskalos said:

Do not confuse 'not a pk whore' with 'non-com'.

Lin

Hell, even I roll the PKs these days.

Angwe

Daskalos said: