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Thoughts on interaction and more
Teani
Shadow MistressSweden
Over the years, the game has made a lot of changes, most for the better, but some have been for the worse. There are more people sitting around afk-ing, more people hiding (in havens or behind cloaks) and a lot less chance for spontaneous RP to happen. At least that's the feeling I've gotten. So, I'd like to propose a few changes and see what people think about them.
Suggested solution: Change Havens to an area connected to the Material plane so that people can actually utilize it/reach it to interact with people inside, and not an unreachable retreat from which people can shout at the masses without fear of retribution. Make -one- room into a "True-Haven" to which you can retreat for shorter periods of time (need to use the bathroom, have to walk the dog/run to the store real quick). Put a timer on the True-Haven entrance and have people automatically log off after x minutes (independent on activity) so that you can't hide away indefinitely. This will minimize people's afk time, or at least be a potential risk to the one afk-ing.
Related problem: People have invested money in these things and don't like the idea of losing them.
Suggested solution: Remove the hood and leave hiding to the skills of various classes instead of hiding even more people in the game. Either reimburse those who had them or find something else that they might be interested in owning that doesn't prevent interaction and visibility in the game.
Suggested solution: Add more of a penalty to PK-deaths. There's already a safety net when it comes to ylem-auras not draining any xp on death, meaning those who are casual participants on the PK arena can still assist in certain ways. Those who enjoy hunting can still go on with their thing. However, this would mean that your actions (pissing someone else off enough to want to PK you) has a consequence. It will hurt. This could be loss of XP or temporary loss of health when returning from the death sequence or a weakening of stats for a short period. It could even be a delayed function, perhaps, meaning that if you are killed, you have a penalty to inflict on yourself at later time, so that you can return to fighting in case it's not ended after one death.
Player A gets killed and receives a penalty point. Once the fighting is over, the player can redeem the penalty and receive something negative for a certain time frame (won't count down when logged off)
Perhaps not all of the ideas are to your liking, but I'd still be interested in hearing what people think. Feel free to send messages if you don't want to make a public post.
- Havens
Problems: As it is, Havens are used by people to escape interaction, to afk in private or to have private interaction that can't be interrupted by others walking in. There are probably other uses for them, but these (I think) are the main ones. They don't promote interaction, rather the opposite. They allow undisturbed afk-ing for hours and hours when people should perhaps log out instead.Suggested solution: Change Havens to an area connected to the Material plane so that people can actually utilize it/reach it to interact with people inside, and not an unreachable retreat from which people can shout at the masses without fear of retribution. Make -one- room into a "True-Haven" to which you can retreat for shorter periods of time (need to use the bathroom, have to walk the dog/run to the store real quick). Put a timer on the True-Haven entrance and have people automatically log off after x minutes (independent on activity) so that you can't hide away indefinitely. This will minimize people's afk time, or at least be a potential risk to the one afk-ing.
- Hoods
Problem: People use hoods to avoid interaction, hide from potential danger or as a "surprise, I'm here!" element when it comes to fighting. It doesn't promote interaction, rather the opposite. They don't show up as online, making it seem like less people actually playing the game than there really are, which doesn't promote it to new players.Related problem: People have invested money in these things and don't like the idea of losing them.
Suggested solution: Remove the hood and leave hiding to the skills of various classes instead of hiding even more people in the game. Either reimburse those who had them or find something else that they might be interested in owning that doesn't prevent interaction and visibility in the game.
- Death
Problems: As it is there are few consequences for anyone's actions. Dying basically means nothing. Just one more round grinding through an area and you're back up to where you were before. I also know that not everyone enjoys the grinding. This means that if you do something to get yourself into trouble, it won't really mean a whole lot. You can "get away" with just about anything.Suggested solution: Add more of a penalty to PK-deaths. There's already a safety net when it comes to ylem-auras not draining any xp on death, meaning those who are casual participants on the PK arena can still assist in certain ways. Those who enjoy hunting can still go on with their thing. However, this would mean that your actions (pissing someone else off enough to want to PK you) has a consequence. It will hurt. This could be loss of XP or temporary loss of health when returning from the death sequence or a weakening of stats for a short period. It could even be a delayed function, perhaps, meaning that if you are killed, you have a penalty to inflict on yourself at later time, so that you can return to fighting in case it's not ended after one death.
Player A gets killed and receives a penalty point. Once the fighting is over, the player can redeem the penalty and receive something negative for a certain time frame (won't count down when logged off)
- Admin
In addition to these things, I would like to propose that the Admin take a firmer stance against people afking. Having a lot of people simply stand around doing nothing and not responding to questions/tells/what-have-you is not helpful. I know it's not fair to put even more work on the volunteer's shoulders (they're a hard-working bunch as it is!) but I think it would do good.Perhaps not all of the ideas are to your liking, but I'd still be interested in hearing what people think. Feel free to send messages if you don't want to make a public post.
2
Comments
The thing is, I don't know if a lot of people would agree that these things are a problem. I've logged into plenty of MU*s where people have been logged in and idle for DAYS, thus hugely inflating numbers, and yet no one seems to care. Personally, I'd prefer an apparently small playerbase that's consistently active when I log in so that I know my time investment is going to be worth it -- but maybe that's just me.
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
I mean, I totally get where @Teani is coming from. I can't count the number of times I've tried throwing emotes at someone or tried engaging them in conversation that's more than perfunctory, only to find out they were afk, multitasking and not in the mood, or were simply not interested in roleplay/interaction (either with new people, or in general). It was disheartening, and for the first couple of weeks I started the game, I genuinely came close to giving up on Aetolia because I didn't have any substantive interaction with almost anyone, despite my best efforts.
At the same time, I also get @Ilyon's point. People have a right to play the game how they want, and different people play for different reasons. Like @Emelle said, it kind of feels like afking is a necessary evil in muds. I feel like trying to prevent afking/seclusion from happening (as much as I personally dig it) just ultimately isn't practical.
My own idea probably isn't viable either, but I thought I'd throw it out there for the sake of brainstorming! When I come across people in rooms and want to pester them with spontaneous interaction, I always wonder if they're (1) actually there, (2) actually enjoy and want roleplay, and (3) even if so, are not currently busy doing some other game thing. Wouldn't it be cool if all the people who are present/open/interested in interaction could signal it to everyone else? Not flamboyantly or anything, but maybe there's a mechanic where, if you're open and available to random interaction, you can designate yourself so, and it shows up on the who list or when you're looking in a room. Maybe an asterisk, or something more subtle than that.
I dunno, you can make the argument that people should just pester everyone and get a sense for who's open to what, but it would be kinda neat for efficiency's sake if I knew immediately who was up for being bothered. I always feel kinda guilty pestering people, in case they're busy or not in the mood, and this would encourage me.
Sorry for the long post! It's something I've been thinking about for a while, and I'm glad you brought it up because it's an interesting discussion. And I want more rp.
As far as conflict and pk, more penalties and consequences are not going to fix -anything-. If anything, they should do away with the experience loss completely. People don't participate in conflict because they enjoy losing something. They also don't have incentive to start participating if there's big losses. New players are going to die, a lot. Hell, I am just rolling with a membership and not making any big purchases/investments for artifacts, and I die all the time. I'm not tanky. I lose a lot of XP. Do I care particularly? No, but I'm 10+ years into these games and kinda get it.
Havens should not be able to get into because sometimes we want to have those private roleplays with the people that its designed for. If I can no longer have a private roleplay with Coribhell or the City Council because some jackwagon Spirean wants to be like 'HEY YOU GUUUUUUUUUUUUYS!!!' I'm just not gonna RP at all. Period, end of story.
While death does have no real down side, I don't see any reason to make it worse.. because if I die 20 times while hunting, 1) i'm already pissed off because I've died 20 times and its decreasing my hunting speed, but I'm going to be even more pissed off because now I have to commit to my 20 penalty counts and have to stop bashing EVEN LONGER just to get rid of my penalties. So this would also be counter productive, especially towards younger players who are getting a) powerbashed, b) focused cause they're a newb, or c) you took on a mob that you thought you could handle. This would cause whatever newbs Aetolia DID get, to just flat out quit.
Admin policing AFK?? No, just no.
Also, for those not seeing an issue with people afk-ing or hiding with hoods, good for you! I'm glad you always seem to find people to answer your questions and that the people you wish to interact with are visible to you through all the organizations you have in common. It's a bit of an issue when it comes to interacting with people outside your organization, though. It's also an issue in certain organizations where there are few members and a novice comes around, seeing people in GWHO and asks questions not knowing that half the game is afk.
It would be nice with at least some kind of indicator that shows how long a person has been inactive (in [ORG]WHO) and delete the whole log-out timer so people don't have to trigger a loop of QW/GW/CW to remain online.
It could show as this if someone has been inactive for more than 10 minutes: Also, mind you all, all I did was give suggestions. My suggestions might not be the best ones or even close, but I wanted to voice concerns I've heard others have as well. I know I'm not alone thinking these things.
ETA: I think @Anfini's suggestion is way more workable, though, because I could see people forgetting to toggle RP flags on and off (unless they go away automatically when you're idle for 20+ minutes or something).
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
Anyway, the afk/idleness indicator sounds more elegant and easier to implement! Won't account for openness to interaction, but at least there's a direct correlation.
Also, I've been on both sides of the fence in regards to afk-responsiveness. It gets to a point where I will send you a message, or a follow up tell, asking if you got my question/request. Likewise, there have been a few times where someone asked me something and I was afk. There are ways to get around people not always answering your questions right away. I'm not saying it's the best ways, but its a way.
Though, I can agree with maybe putting on an indicator in your orgs, but this won't be an accurate thing because of triggers like mass, novice tells, etc... but its a good start.
@Iselle: If you want to make a clan for roleplay, by all means, go for it.
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
Wait I thought Anfini's idea = RP flag. I supported it then and I support it now.
PK Penalties
I generally don't think more PK penalties are needed. I personally think people need to behave themselves, stay IC, and act like death does matter for living characters. However, that's the ideal world. So, if we want to introduce PK penalties because people are letting the OOC costlessness of death bleed into how they behave recklessly and invincibly in game, then I'd suggest maybe a small 2-3% chance of a temporary malus on death. Something high enough that you don't welcome death like you eat it for breakfast, but low enough that it's like a noticeable slap on the wrists.
Hood
Hood needs to be deleted, or repurposed like the how it was with the syssin charm.
Havens (and cities)
I think there is a problem when people can hide in cities without fear of repercussions. I think there should be a safe area within cities (3-5 rooms) where there can be no combat. That is more than enough. Hiding in a safe zone should be a temporary thing with significant inconvenience, and not something that you can do indefinitely. Therefore, I would like to see guards being heavily nerfed, such that while they do contribute to some damage/afflicting, it shouldn't be debilitating to the point that you need an army (or syssin class) to kill someone who is hiding in a city. Havens are already great places to hide. For the non end-gamers, the 3-5 safe rooms should be enough.
I think both @Anfini and myself (and possibly even more people) have brought up the RP flag thing before. It's nice to see that there are more people out there interested in it. It would definitely help with interaction.
Adding the dark gray for idling on WHO and Orgwho lists is a good complement, as it will show who is possible to approach. Then, if you know the person is approachable even if the name is grayed out (like @Ilyon), you can have them as a resource.
As for hoods, most people who purchased the hood did so only because others had them and they didn't want to lose the edge in combat. Plenty of them really didn't want it simply because it ruins the part of the game which has to do with interaction.
Also, I'd be happy to have a flag showing your name as grey on qw if you're afk, but I'd probably just leave it on always.
Anyway, will wait a little longer to see if I can finagle a used clan over market (let me know if you have leads!), but if not, will just pony up the money soon for a new one.
(One could argue that because this is a RP-enforced game, the expectation is that anyone is up for interaction, but I think that doesn't reflect the reality of the situation...)
"The smell of dusty fur, sweet smoke, waiting and patience, a thing that time cannot kill. The moth that candles won't burn."
On occasion, it may be appropriate for a character to want to be alone. Not everyone wants to be around someone or a group of people 24/7. Happens IRL so it makes sense it'd happen here.
So in essence, interaction with people is more based on a NEED instead of a WANT.
Typically am up for random RP, I always like the random interaction I get, granted it's pretty small as I think there's a fairly large player base assumption that PKers don't like to RP. Trial gets OOC tells to response on market for selling or looking for stuff and I'm always confused, like uhh I guess our characters will trade but never actually interact somehow? I don't really think being hidden on who limits the random interaction I get unless it's someone specifically hunting me down to interact with me, but I suspect they'd just send me a tell or ask on city/guild chat.