Discuss Swat Here People

Obyn

@Oleis didn't say this, but I think it needs said. Let's watch our tones here, hm? Things are getting a bit heated and jabs at other situations and players are being made. Cool it down.

Nalor

Thanks @Oleis‌

Zsadist

Got with @Grimdale and we got a fair bit more numbers and without the use of Furor. Beware, long post.

Strength 21
Hammer: 189/89/132 with lvl 3 rune

With scythe stance and protection amulet

Cutting | 30% 0% 53% 48%
Blunt | 30% 0% 53% 48%

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1840, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 376, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 469, blunt, brute
[5087(65%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2685h, -2soul)

Strength 19

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
You jerk your body to the side, lessening the blow.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1196, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 351, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 436, blunt, brute
[5789(74%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|100%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-1983h, -2soul)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strength 21
Hammer: 189/89/132 with lvl 3 rune

Without scythe stance, but with Protection Amulet
Cutting | 30% 0% 13% 33%
Blunt | 30% 0% 13% 33%

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 2072, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 480, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 469, blunt, brute
You use Hematurgy Bloodshield Proc on Grimdale.
As Grimdale lashes out at you, the wisp strikes him violently.
[4751(61%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-3021h, -2soul)

Strength 19

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1925, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 446, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 436, blunt, brute
[4965(63%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2807h, -15w, -2soul)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strength 21
Hammer: 189/89/132 with lvl 3 rune

No scythe stance/protection amulet
Cutting | 30% 0% 0% 28%
Blunt | 30% 0% 0% 28%


Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 2148, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 513, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 469, blunt, brute
[4642(59%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-3130h, -2soul)

Strength 19

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1996, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 477, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 436, blunt, brute
You use Hematurgy Bloodshield Proc on Grimdale.
As Grimdale lashes out at you, the wisp strikes him violently.
[4863(62%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2909h, -15w, -2soul)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strength 19
Hammer: 159/71/124. No runes

With scythe stance and protection amulet
Cutting | 30% 0% 0% 48%
Blunt | 30% 0% 0% 48

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
You jerk your body to the side, lessening the blow.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1068, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 351, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 436, blunt, brute
[5917(76%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-1855h, -15w, -2soul)

Strength 21

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1644, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 376, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 469, blunt, brute
[5283(67%)|6520(100%)|0|99%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2489h, +54w, +24e, -2soul)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strength 19
Hammer: 159/71/124. No runes.

Without scythe stance, but with protection amulet
Cutting | 30% 0% 0% 33%
Blunt | 30% 0% 0% 33%

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
You jerk your body to the side, lessening the blow.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1240, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 446, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 436, blunt, brute
[5650(72%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2122h, -2soul)


Strength 21

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
You jerk your body to the side, lessening the blow.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1334, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 480, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 469, blunt, brute
[5489(70%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|99%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2283h, -2soul)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strength 19
Hammer: 159/71/124. No runes.

No scythe stance/protection amulet
Cutting | 30% 0% 0% 28%
Blunt | 30% 0% 0% 28%

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1852, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 477, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 436, blunt, brute
[5007(64%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|100%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2765h, +15w, -2soul)

Strength 21

Grimdale uses Savagery Swat on you.
Grimdale swings a large flanged greatmaul around and slams it painfully into your side. The force of
the blow sends you cartwheeling through the air towards the west.
Grimdale uses Deathlore Soulthirst Strike on you.
Knifing pain rips through your being as Grimdale's weapon hungrily devours part of your soul.
Health Lost: 1993, blunt, brute
Grimdale stops you from moving that way.
Grimdale uses Savagery Stalwart on you.
With a cruel sneer, Grimdale shoves you to the ground as you try to move past him.
Health Lost: 513, blunt, brute
Balance Used: 0.69 seconds
You slam painfully into the obstruction blocking the exit.
Health Lost: 469, blunt, brute
[4797(61%)|6520(100%)|0|100%|100%|89%|76.16%|S:98%] [HMcspdb e-] (-2975h, -2soul)

Grimdale

All of those were without furor, the damage to me doesn't seem too high, I can get comparable damage with other Carni skills. Just the swat into stalwart is derpy, and until today I never even thought to try it.

Moirean

Yeah what's the damage like with a more normal str (14-18) and a hammer that's more reasonable (180 is max you can forge to, 175-178 is more common for pure damage).

Grimdale

With 19 str and 159 damage hammer the damage was still 1200ish with divert. Balance use is 2.79 seconds. Same 159 damage hammer can do 1200 at 1.9 seconds with bash.

Ashmer

Yeah, divert is messing with some of those numbers. Could we edit the post to replace the ones with divert with samples without divert?

Lim

Hahahah. Yeah, swat is a bit of a problem at present. Mainly because it can be used in conjunction with stalwart. I'm also sure @Yarel‌ is just using/enjoying it until it gets nerf'ed, so don't take the losses too personally. At present, some classes can counter it, some can't. But I'll leave you guys to figure out which and how in the meanwhile.

Ezalor

Swat has three big problems with it:

1. It scales with weapon damage but NOT weapon speed. This means you can just get a big ole 200 damage bludgeon with nothing in speed to maximize DPS.

2. Slamming into obstructions is big damage.

3. Stalwart proccing off it.

Personally I think fixing 1 and 3, maybe with a bit of numbers tweaking too, would be a good fix.

As far as raw damage Monks and Templars are outputting similar amounts as this actually.

Xenia

Ezalor said:

Personally I think fixing 1 and 3, maybe with a bit of numbers trewking too, would be a good fix.

FTFY

Yarel

@Lim psure you are the only person I ever 1v1 killed with Swat. Maybe Rashar once, not sure about that though. And for the record, when I did, I had 21 Str and I want to say around a 180 damage on hammer. Not sure cause that hammer decayed. It had Level 3 Rune though.

Ishin

You guys and your runes on warhammers that aren't 180 base dmg. WHO DOES YOUR FORGING?! THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!

But on a real note, when @Tenshyo combos me, he ends up doing something like, 40-60% of my HP in one go round. Can't remember if that was a head/torso combo, but it's kind've irrelevant. I think he said he has no arties? Soooo..

Aishia

Idk why this is such a huge discussion it's clearly a problem and it's going to be dealt with.

Yarel

And I can guarantee it won't take nearly as long to fix as Retrilol did... So just chill folks.
@Ishin I pmuch only use Carni for bashing. So I try to balance speed and damage. That's why I'm using hammers that don't have 180 dmg.

Tenshyo

Ishin said:

You guys and your runes on warhammers that aren't 180 base dmg. WHO DOES YOUR FORGING?! THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!

But on a real note, when @Tenshyo combos me, he ends up doing something like, 40-60% of my HP in one go round. Can't remember if that was a head/torso combo, but it's kind've irrelevant. I think he said he has no arties? Soooo..

Correct sir, I have no arties. Using the usual SDK UCPx2 combo usually.

Ashmer

Grimdale

Ishin said:

You guys and your runes on warhammers that aren't 180 base dmg. WHO DOES YOUR FORGING?! THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!! But on a real note, when @Tenshyo combos me, he ends up doing something like, 40-60% of my HP in one go round. Can't remember if that was a head/torso combo, but it's kind've irrelevant. I think he said he has no arties? Soooo..

I dropped some damage on the hammer for crush speed. Once you add a rune 189 or 198 damage does close to the same, but you add 20 speed or so.