An introduction to Major Foci

Valingar

I really don't like the giant eld combo with small groups. They make the experience so unrewarding. You're -forced- to have a big group with artifacted endgamers or you can't get a core, even if you beat the enemy team and manage to get a gateway first. I've experienced this several times.

Aishia

hey if you wanna standardize deaths between life and undead I would be very happy. Each side gets it's own bonuses in different situations as is

Draiman

Valingar said:

I really don't like the giant eld combo with small groups. They make the experience so unrewarding. You're -forced- to have a big group with artifacted endgamers or you can't get a core, even if you beat the enemy team and manage to get a gateway first. I've experienced this several times.

IIRC didn't they same something about scaling it party size or something? I can't remember.

Malok

I'm fine with it how it is outside of major leylines. However, I think it's pretty lame that once inside you basically never have to come back out, which is a workaround for the bottleneck we created at the gateway. I mean, it'd be a fine tactic if we could use it on our troops too, but having it be for one side is really lame, tbh.

Valingar

Draiman said:

Valingar said:

I really don't like the giant eld combo with small groups. They make the experience so unrewarding. You're -forced- to have a big group with artifacted endgamers or you can't get a core, even if you beat the enemy team and manage to get a gateway first. I've experienced this several times.

IIRC didn't they same something about scaling it party size or something? I can't remember.

The eld currently don't. I've killed a rock eld with 15 people and tried it with 4 and it hit equally hard both times, and had the same maxhealth, confirmed by the hunting artifact that shows health. I think the major itself does scale to number of participants (unsure).

Draiman

Ah, then yeah, would be nice if the final encounter scaled down or up to party size.

I also want to agree with Aishia and just standardize deaths across the board. It does and can cause some unfair imbalances in different situations sometimes.

Ilyon

Malok said:

I'm fine with it how it is outside of major leylines. However, I think it's pretty lame that once inside you basically never have to come back out, which is a workaround for the bottleneck we created at the gateway. I mean, it'd be a fine tactic if we could use it on our troops too, but having it be for one side is really lame, tbh.

While I somewhat agree here, it's worth noting that we do have access to earthmeld which, while significantly slower, does allow a similar strategy.

Malok

I would be fine with the idea of the area inside the gateway not being able to have earthmeld or revive either used. I just think it's silly to be able to turtle in there and spam deaths with no way for the opposing team to interact with you. Also, before the argument comes up, yes...I do realize that the thing ends way too fast as is, and its a way to get around that, but if they ever slow it down like we all want, I think this revive/earthmeld inside thing should be addressed rather quickly.

I mean, I thought the idea was to compete. You just can't anymore once they get inside.

Draiman

Eh, it almost feels kinda griefy to be able to disrupt whoever won the pvp side from doing the pve portion of it. It's off plane and inaccessible to the losing side already.

Valingar

I don't think blockading the gateway should be a mechanic particularly encouraged anyway. By that time, your team lost; the major is over.

Zsadist

Ilyon said:

Malok said:

I'm fine with it how it is outside of major leylines. However, I think it's pretty lame that once inside you basically never have to come back out, which is a workaround for the bottleneck we created at the gateway. I mean, it'd be a fine tactic if we could use it on our troops too, but having it be for one side is really lame, tbh.

While I somewhat agree here, it's worth noting that we do have access to earthmeld which, while significantly slower, does allow a similar strategy.

I have no problem with the revive ability perse, however, when its used in conjuction with any lesser or major, it really puts off the darkie side from being able to win. I mean, any real lifer could trigger something to be like, 'get body/revive body' and then its still 5v5, while darkie side continues to drop. @Ilyon, I understand that we have earthmeld/entomb, however those are not instant raises, while Revive is an instant raise. I'd be fine with like a 25s or 30s channel after someone accepts the revival message. It'd be a little faster than entomb, alot faster than earthmeld/diffuse, but not so game breaking that Valingar could grab kendri/aishia revive both and keep swinging while we continue to lose fighters and they don't.

Draiman

Look at it like this @Malok :

Major's have two aspects: Team fighting PVP and Team PVE

You have every phase except the end phase to stop the other team from getting to the end phase. All of those phases are PVP. Whoever wins the PVP phase gets to do the PVE phase. At this point, it's no longer a PVP challenge and the losing side is out of the competition. It's now solely PVE. It feels like this is what they intended by making the end phase inaccessible to the losing team of the PVP phases. Until the new tree comes, there's only one benefit from denying them the the victory of the PVE fight (besides revenge I guess). Once that new tree hits, there is no benefit at all besides you get a few more team ganks in.

Malok

I understand what you mean @Draiman, but I did not know that was the intended goal/purpose/setup of majors. I simply thought it was competing with the other side for a certain goal. I guess it makes more sense, and the additional discussion about death in general would likely be better for another thread.

That being said, I still don't agree with it. Though, as usual, that's irrelevant.

Draiman

I'm not saying it is intended, just that it feels that way. If an admin would like to chime in and set us straight that would be nice. @Oleis perty pls

Edit: I bet if we looked through this thread we might find something but eff that, I can't read.

Jensen

Let's not argue for mirrored copies of each other's abilities and instead enjoy that we have strengths and weaknesses to cope with

Rashar

Darkies can and do pick up bodies, preventing us from auto reviving. Which is dangerous anyway. Moot.

Aishia

I was being partly facetious. I have mixed feelings on it depending on which end of the stick I get!

Ishin

Aishia said:

I was being partly facetious. I have mixed feelings on it depending on which end of the stick I get!

There's only one end of the stick worthy of you.

Alexina

Eh. For something like a boss fight, if you're not able to go back into it after reviving normally, then you should not be able to get revived inside the area either.

EDIT:
Apparently, you can go into the gateway if you die. I have no problem with resurrecting inside the zone anymore.

Zsadist

Rashar said:

Darkies can and do pick up bodies, preventing us from auto reviving. Which is dangerous anyway. Moot.

I get that we CAN... doesn't mean we always manage it. We need balance before you do to get the body. But if you get it before us, then you autorevive and we're back to square 1.

Rashar

You're forgetting that most people aren't wasting a what, three second balance? That could be spent prepping or finishing an enemy for a questionably worthwhile revive (at a cost of our own hp, during a fight where that matters) to bring them back undeffed and blind to a room full of enemies.

Chances are if we're reviving, we've already -won- the room.

Idk. I'm with @jensen, in that I think both sides have their benefits. I personally think ours is more utility than direct combat application. It is helpful to be able to revive people when bashing/etc, but in a PK situation, while it's nice to be able to pull allies back to life and so be ready for the next 'swarm', I'd still take having my allies be able to actually get back to the fight before it was over in the first place.

As for @alexina - you -can- still get back to the boss fight, for 15 minutes. It's arguable whether or not you're just trolling to stand outside of the gate and try to kill people as they go back in or not, considering you've already lost the foci. Either way, I don't see a problem with being able to just revive them back.

Not sure anything needs changed in this regard, but that's just my personal opinion.

Alexina

Personally, I feel that majors ending with neither side advancing to the boss stage is less than ideal. They're sort of rare and now of a sudden -everyone- is disappointed they didn't make it to the next round, instead of just one of the tethers.

Zsadist

I don't really mind it. It means there was enough contention that neither side won. However, with how many fighters each side has, I do think that the fact that 3 lessers spawn at once, and each need to be refined completely before the 3rd phase begins is kinda unsettling. No side can afford to split their group into three fighting forces. Its just not feasible. Unless each side is running 15v15 or something, in which case you could. But the moment you do that, it'll be 15v5 x3 times. Sooo... really, we're back to it being unfeasible.

Ilyon

There is no third phase if the second one is not gateways.

Toz

I'd just as soon say change it from 3 lessers spawn to a king of the hill kind of deal. CAPTURE NODE syntax, 3s channel to start, have to channel it for the duration you're trying to hold (can't leave the room, like controlling works atm). 3 spawn, the side that controls the most for the longest gets to advance to the next (pve) round. That way someone always wins, and with clever tactics/movement you can win even with fewer numbers.

Kendri

There really needs to be closure on the majors without gateways. Not necessarily the bosses themselves but maybe, the side that collects the most ylem in the second phase gets a piece of a core, five pieces to make a full core or something.

This also encourages the fights to revolve around the objectives and not just free for alls because 'who cares'.

Alexina

O wow. The bosses were really the huge appeal to me. Had no idea they weren't there for every major.

Serrice

There is no third phase.

I believe it was mentioned at one point that, at times, optimal strategy is to /not/ fight.

Toz

Serrice said:

There is no third phase.

I believe it was mentioned at one point that, at times, optimal strategy is to /not/ fight.

That's the problem. Optimal for the WINNING side is to not fight. Losing side can throw in 100% of their forces against you, since they lose either way. It creates a point where your side has to be able to fend off 100% of the enemy with a fraction of your own force, which means that unless you're overwhelmingly ahead, you'll tend to not win one no matter what.

Ilyon

Oh, to add some actual feedback --

for the stages that include a lesser - both the triple lesser and the moving lesser one - I think it'd be preferred if there was no passive drain on these. As it's now, the stage feels like it's on a rather strict timer, which isn't very compelling.