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OrgRequest Feedback
Oleis
Producer EmeritusAdministrator, Immortal
Hi folks. Feel free to ask questions and provide feedback about the OrgReq system here. I'm excited to put it into regular use.
You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
[---]
"^," Slyphe agrees with you.
2
Comments
1. What's being done to ensure that the events approved are completed in a timely fashion, so that events do not stall?
2. How will it be decided which event should be done first? With so many orgs, I imagine there will be a flood of requests sent in. Will it be first come first serve? Or will it be based on which event hasn't had any attention lately?
3. Is there a limit we may submit? I know as a GM sometimes, I have several ideas for a multitude of events.
This is great! I'm really excited to see this and it should make things easier on both sides of the equation.
1. Either I bunked something up, or looking at ORGREQ (num) doesn't show what your headline was. Would it be possible to have that added in the feedback?
2. Would it be possible to have new fields added, or open it up in the editor, so that larger requests or things with more content do not get condensed into a single WallofText? IE for emote requests and or things with multiple paragraphs, where we might be including descriptions and so on. Maybe an optional field for pastebins/hastebins/binbinbthings as well?
3. Will it show who is a watcher if more people are added, so that GMs can keep track of who is tacked on? At least on a player-side.
4. Can approval/rejections/new comments also shoot the GM a message? Or a notation into the guild log?
> There is activity in OrgReq 24235235. etc.
Hey. Really great questions.
(1) The reason I emphasize that Razmael are the ones accountable for the system is because we're paid. We have to show up and do good work to stay around, and there's a clear person in charge if we fail to do so. As producers of Aetolia, we should be managing these projects and keeping them moving. If a volunteer bails, it's on us to find a new volunteer or take the project on ourselves.
(2) We'll prioritize in the interest of making sure every guild who gets a request approved gets something before we continue. While I know that some guilds need immediate assistance more than others, we're going to have to play it by ear a little bit.
(3) Right now it's unlimited. We may revisit that, but I think we should keep it as open as possible. Hurfdurf. You're right. Let me add it.
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OrgReq #1 - Status: Complete
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Paladin Aviary Needs New Life
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Falconry and the Aviary are a big and unique piece of legacy for the
Templar guild, however with the removal of the Paladin class as well
as our transition into a new entity, it has gone without use. I would
love it if (at a guild priv appointable rank) guild members could
request a falcon minipet. While our noble companions may not aid us in
battle, we can at least continue to support our falconers and the
nests.
Submitted: 2014/12/05 15:06:07
--- Decision ---------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a great idea. Hit me with a comment about what guild
rank you'd like to set it at (which you're free to change in the
future.) Would you like to write a new falcon desc for the minipet?
--- Comments ---------------------------------------------------------
Areka on 2014/12/05 15:38:16:
Guild rank 4 please! [pastebin link snipped]
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Oleis on 2014/12/05 15:39:24:
Room preference for where they can REQUEST FALCON?
---------------
Areka on 2014/12/05 15:40:26:
v4586 - Paladin Aviary.
--- Admin Comments ---------------------------------------------------
Oleis on 2014/12/05 15:36:20:
[snipped]
--- Watching: --------------------------------------------------------
Damariel and Areka
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Some notes for explanation: The guildrank is hardcoded right now. As we gain more of these perks, I will likely develop a system for orgleaders to manage them. Damariel is listed as a watcher automatically because he is the Templars' Patron.
Really cool, @Areka, really well done @Oleis
Priority: Guildfavour me
Urgent: OH NO SOMETHING IS BROKEN
Emergency: Apocalypse wow
- Every secretary/city council member/OR 8-10 gets access to view requests. Input is great, accountability is great, and I want my sub-leaders to be seeing this stuff.
- We get a command to allow specified others to view a req. ORGREQ # ALLOW [name]. Often ideas come from random citizens and I'd love to have them able to view the progress.
- Every Orgreq is logged in org logs. Just say the number (so secretaries, etc, can view it) and leave what it IS out (surprises are nice!), eg "Moirean has submitted OrgReq #19." This would then give a great sort of proof that leaders are being active. As a player leader, so much of my time is spent on backend and hidden stuff that it would be nice for this to be able to be logged, even if just minorly. It's nice to have stuff like that documented to show that you're doing work.
I can't help but be a bit skeptical. I've played this game long enough to see the knee-jerk development style. I requested this system over a year ago and was shot down. Only when there was forum outcry did we get it promised and implemented. This reminds me VERY much of the last time this happened - there was a lot of forum outcry and we were then calmed down with promises of individual org meetings. Not only did half of those not happen (Spinesreach is still waiting for ours), most of the things discussed in the meetings were completely abandoned. Our org meeting was literally the last time admin spoke to us about anything discussed in the Carni meeting, despite half the things we came to ending with "we'll get back to you about that."
Aetolia lately is very good at saying what we want to hear, but that's only half of it. There needs to be followup, instead of just promises. I could cite far more examples of how many things are promised on forums that never materialize, but that would just make for a long post - frankly, I'd rather be talked to honestly, instead of being told "yes, this will happen really soon!" and keep me hanging. Let me know where things REALLY stand so I can work around that. You guys maybe think it hurts you to give accurate timelines, but on the contrary - I've held off MULTIPLE events because I've been told false timelines. At one point, I postponed the carni tournament for 2 RL months due to "soon" timeline promises and being directly told "don't do any major events because we have your revamp coming out asap." I ended up just hosting the event - and it's good I did, because the carni release wasn't until like 4-6 months later. Yeah. You guys told me "soon" multiple times, told me to hold off major events because of this upcoming change, and then it didn't happen until over 8 RL months later. Player events may not be as great as admin ones, but having them on pause probably doesn't help the game.
To be clear, it's not the delay I'm jaded about - I've come to expect that. I work in software dev and I've played Aet a long time. I know how it goes. What is frustrating is Aetolia continually insisting that THIS time stuff is on schedule. THIS time stuff is being handled right. THIS time we've got it down...when LAST time still is hanging, neglected....and it's apparently taboo to even talk about. Frankly, I don't want the PR voice, as an org leader. I want to know the real timelines, so I can GO DO EVENTS and LEAD MY ORGS without bugging you guys or waiting on stuff you keep asking me to wait on. I would, really, rather just do it myself and it's chafing when admin request delays and waiting and involvement, when the timelines are so borked.
This is probably just me being jaded, but I frankly wonder if this new orgreq stuff is just a way to sideline requests and put them into holding patterns - 2 days ago, I was getting feedback of "sure, this can happen for your event", and now it's turned into a bureaucratic filter function of "Please submit request." I want honest timelines and I want systems that work, not stuff that's tossed out as a shield for development issues. I hope that this system works well, but I also hope it's not just a quick-fix to silence some forum drama. If the intent is there to help leader-org-admin relations, it stands to reason that this new system is only a single facet. The org chats will continue, for example. It's very odd that a new system espousing admin-leader communication is implemented while those meetings are still sitting there not done, afterall.
Anyways. It has interesting potential, but the new system is not the only way admin and leaders should interact.
Can't quote properly, sorry, but this is they key for me. Because it's not in scattered mass messages where we have to track down each person who was messaged, because it comes straight to either Razmael or me, you're going to get a lot more honesty and a lot less bureaucracy. There's more of a MECHANICAL bureaucracy, yes, but there's significantly less person-to-person bungling involved. I have it right now set to just spam the everloving hell of out me if there are undecided orgrequests. The comment mechanism lets me give a timestamped, easily referenced acknowledgement that I'm taking the weekend off and one shouldn't expect to see this done yet. We can immediately see who was the last to respond if something has been left hanging.
Digging for messages is HARD for you guys. It's impossible for us. This just improves our accountability, so you can call us out much more easily if we fail.
#2 Just include it in your request and I'll add them if it gets approved or if we're about to discuss it further.
#3 I'm a little sketchy about putting a thoroughly OOC mechanism on the org logs.
To be clear, this is NOT a criticism of our volunteer staff. I understand that they are busy and this is a crazy time of year. It's a criticism of the admin culture we currently have that leads them to promise absurd things over and over, leads them to promise absurd time requirements during the holiday season, the admin culture that can't just say wow we screwed the pooch and here is how we are going to sort it out, the admin culture that prefers to shut out and find fault, instead of common ground. I understand that stuff takes time...but communication takes only SECONDS and is worth hours of misunderstanding. Tossing off a verdict on an orgreq, replying to a message about meeting times, etc, this stuff is so vital, and I find it baffling that our admin do not even ACKNOWLEDGE receiving messages. I am only a lowly CL, but every message I get, I send a reply to if it's applicable, even if I have no intention on acting on the stuff for a week or two. People deserve to know that their voice is being heard. I refuse to think that's a revolutionary concept, but for our admin - and let's be honest, we've all experienced it - it seems to be. When was the last time you got a message from Raz going, "Yo, got your house request. I'll get to it in 2 weeks, super busy." - and how much happier would you have been had you gotten it? It absolutely baffles me why Aetolia's admin treat communication like some super secret and distressing thing.
Ban me for saying it, but it seems pretty clear to me that Oleis is over-reactive and Razmael is rarely around (and Oleis's obviously over and beyond work is probably because of the latter). I mean he made the new foci system, but couldn't be assed to even help flesh it out and explain it to us? It was insanely confusing at release, and it's not been made any more clear since then. I don't want Raz to become another Galleus, so. I dunno. Either find that love you once had for the game and actually interact with us again, or move on and let Oleis take over and hop down to being a coder.
Yes, I'm being a real bitch here, but I also spent like $400+ this month on the game. When I am throwing money at you guys, I think it's fair to expect a standard of game dev. I don't just throw my money in for perks - I throw it in because it's an investment, at least in theory, in my character and in the game. When the devs can't even be bothered to post an update on stuff, that's really depressing. Worse, when they latch on to common issues and promise quick changes, and that doesn't come through, it sets a standard of inefficacy. I'm throwing money out like mad because I haven't had paychecks in a very long time - once the novelty of a disposable income wears off (and it's already getting there) Aetolia is not likely to be where I throw my extra money, due almost entirely to dev decisions and actions (or lack of).