Weaponry is too expensive

Alexina

To be able to loan out artifacts permanently seems like a huge oversight. I do hope they change the way the rune works in that regard, or make options available to loan out other artifacts indefinitely.

Rowena

Alexina said:

To be able to loan out artifacts permanently seems like a huge oversight. I do hope they change the way the rune works in that regard, or make options available to loan out other artifacts indefinitely.

That's precisely what I thought.

It's not that I mind Moirean loaning an artifact around her guild, it sounds like a good idea, but guild artifacts should be a general thing, not just a fault with the way runes work that benefits weaponry guilds.

Moirean

It's not permanently. It returns when the weapon decays. Weapons don't last very long anymore.

I don't get why you guys are upset and asking that we remove something that makes the game special for multiple people. How does it hurt you? It brings the game more money (the last person who won it bought a ton of credits to buy more runes to go along with it, and I am personally saving up for another level 3 because now that I've gotten to see it in action, I want one for myself).

Gwenith has a pet customized as a warhound. That doesn't make Carnifex warhounds suddenly less special or useless.

Alexina

We're not upset, and I really wasn't trying to come across that way. It just seems unfair that some people are able to loan out their artifacts for forever (60 RL days is forever compared to 1 hour), and I'm not. Why is there something about your specific artifacts that makes it more fair for you to be able to do that, while I can't do the same with mine?

Having the same reset timer on your artifacts as everyone else has on theirs in the game wouldn't really 'hurt' your gameplay, either. So.

Toz

It is a limit of code. The weapon is not an artifact so it cannot reset. Do you really want to have to re-rune your weapon every time it resets to your inv from the weapon?

Alexina

Seems weird that it'd be a limit of code since articall'ing the rune puts the weapon in your inventory, and not the rune. Couldn't the same thing be done for resetting?

Riluo

I like that I was able to created a rp weapon called Dragon's bane, which is a house weapon I loan to novices to use. Due to this a few now own artefact's as they have been able to compare a non-artefact version to "Dragon's bane". I can also recall it when I require it via artifact recall command. Does it benefit anyone or harm anyone. No. It has been used like this since runes first came out and not once has a complaint been made, so I would be very livid if house rp was suddenly effected by a select few. Furthermore the incentive to purchase would be reduced making less people buy into the game.

Toz

Alexina said:

Seems weird that it'd be a limit of code since articall'ing the rune puts the weapon in your inventory, and not the rune. Couldn't the same thing be done for resetting?

It works like shock sigils afaik. If I attach a shock sigil to a mono and drop the mono, that's gonna stay put. Once a thing is 'attached', it won't reset unless you explicitly articall it - maybe there is a graceful way to handle it, but I don't know of one. That being said, I'm 100% for guild endowed artifacts, be something neat to give guilds a slight mechanical edge. Ex: Syssin have a level 3 bow they bestow upon their best fighter, Luminaries give an arti shield out to their leader, etc.

Alexina

Well, like I said, why is your artifact more unique or special or better at being a guild artifact while mine isn't? That's not really very fair.

Moirean

So bump everyone else up. Don't pull some people down.

Alexina

Alexina said:

To be able to loan out artifacts permanently seems like a huge oversight. I do hope they change the way the rune works in that regard, or make options available to loan out other artifacts indefinitely.

Gwenith

Using my pet isn't as an example isn't the same. Jett doesn't afford me any PvP advantages and I certainly can't lend it out to people. It's just a prop I paid credits for, not something that gives an advantage.

Rowena

You should be arguing for guild arties, not for essentially the protection of a loophole because someone thought runes should be made more convenient for people that use multiple weapons.

Moirean

I think it kinda is the same. When I first realized you had made one, I debated if it was something I should be upset about - warhounds are a Carnifex thing and someone able to make a minipet customized into one is like darkies running around with pets skinned as Luminary angels. It takes away from the guild's unique mechanics and there are RP ramifications.

Then I realized, eh. Carnis aren't going to fall apart just because someone non-Carni has a warhound. I used it as an example of "You know what, I bet this person's gameplay is enhanced by it, and it's really not HARMING mine, so, shrug, who cares."

Moirean

@Rowena ...I've made like 50 posts over the years asking for guild arties. I've argued for them plenty and I imagine half the reason they are refused because of discussions like this one. "I don't have one, so I don't want them having one."

Rowena

That's not it at all.

I've stated already, I don't care that you have it, it's kind of cool. I said earlier that guild artifacts is an idea that I'd personally support. It's in other games already.

What I care about is the discrepancy between forging and runing weapons compared to other artifacts that increase damage.

Alexina

• Artifacts in general can not be loaned out for extended periods of time. If some people can loan their artifacts to their guildmates/citymates/whoever, then the rest of us should be given that option too.
  
• Most of us had to actually invest in the artifacts that we're using. We could borrow artifacts to test them out and that was pretty cool, but we had to pay real actual credits to be able to actually get the full benefit of an artifacts in a permanent, non-resetting way. Like I mentioned in my previous post, 60 RL days is pretty huge compared to 1 hour.
  
• Your gameplay won't be significantly worse if runed weapons reset like other artifacts do. It'll just means that all artifacts behave in the same manner.
  

Moirean

It would significantly impact my gameplay. One big guild feature would be lost.

You guys are acting like runes come from nowhere. They don't. I paid 1000+ credits for the ones the guild item uses. SOMEONE is investing in the artifacts and while they are being loaned out, I can't use them - so I'm about to buy ANOTHER set. Like, literally, once Carni revamp comes out we're holding another tournament and I am likely gonna drop a chunk of my first paycheck into credits to help buy runes for myself, because I like having them so much.

Had I not been able to loan these to the guild, I'd never have bought them in the first place for guildies and would never be considering buying them for myself. I know at least one other person bought like 2k credits for a similar reason.

Gwenith

Edited: Because this actually has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Sorry for the interruption.

Alexina

The total credit cost of my bracers is 32,460, and I'm still not able to loan them out for 60 RL days simply because artifacts were never intended to be purchased for other people than yourself. I think this particular discrepancy is not really fair to other people who can't use their own artifacts in the same way, and I don't think it's fair to the people that're forced to pay for the artifact in question while others are able to use it completely for free.

I really doubt that your guild has been built around the non-resetting of artifact weapons. I really doubt that changing them to work like every other artifact out there would affect your guild's long term well-being or your own personal enjoyment of the game. I just can't imagine it all being built around having these runes being available for loan.

Rowena

Not being able to conveniently shift weapon runes between weapons impacts the gameplay of everyone that plays a weaponry class and goes between pvp / pve or different classes with weapons.

It's not all about you Moirean. I don't understand why you always divert discussions that way either. This topic isn't "The Carnifex guild halberd is OP, nerf Moirean." It's, weaponry artifacts and the skillset in general is really inconvenient compared to comparable artifacts for other classes.

Moirean

Us having a guild bardiche doesn't make your bracers stop working. I absolutely understand that being able to buy artifacts for a guild would be great - it's something I've asked for for YEARS. A way to long-term loan other types of artifacts (within a limit) would also be pretty cool. However, removing something cool from us as a guild won't change a single thing about how your bracers work, and it will definitely result in fewer people buying credits in some circumstances.

Alexina

You bring up credits spent as some sort of justification for allowing this specific artifact to operate in a manner that no other artifact does. I don't see why there should be some sort of pick and choose in regards to which artifacts reset to their owner and which doesn't. The original artifact weapons all reset to their owner and it was fine back then.

I think it's really unfair that you get to have whatever artifacts suits for your guild to hand out as rewards or to help out whoever you want to, and I can't do the same with mine. Either all artifacts need to work like this, or none of them should.

Moirean

You bought your artifacts because you directly saw value in having them for yourself. I bought the runes directly because I wanted them to be used for my guild. Your use is not hindered in any way by my use, and weapons being loaned out like this has gone on for years. I think it's really kinda shitty that you want to ruin my - and by extension, multiple members of my guild's - use because you suddenly just found out about this and want to be able to do it with all of your artis. Like, I should just have not posted, and nobody would have cared. If this gets changed, after years of functioning a certain way, for the worse because of forum posts - which is what I am afraid of and why I'm being defensive - I will feel pretty upset.

Lim

Proposed solution:

A 100-200 cr rune (or COLOURFUL, MAGICAL STICKER) that lets you loan an artifact out without it resetting to you.

Please stop fighting!

Trager

I agree, however. A blanket decision should be made in either way, to prevent these kind of things. Whether it was overlooked or not, intentionally or not, who knows. Either reset weapons or find a way to let people to share artifacts/loan them out for long periods I suppose.

Keroc

Artifacts are not shareable on a permanent basis unless it's explicitly stated as so within the related help file. If you're finding a way to do so, it should be bugged. Runes are an oversight, but I'll leave it to Razmael/Oleis to decide what they'd like to do.

Rowena

Yeah, thanks (sarcasm).

Moirean will blame me because I wanted ease of life with how artifacts related to weaponry are used.

This is what happens when you make every topic about yourself.

Keroc

Rowena said:

Yeah, thanks (sarcasm).

Moirean will blame me because I wanted ease of life with how artifacts related to weaponry are used.

This is what happens when you make every topic about yourself.

It's not your fault, and no one should say it is.

If it was left as is, then it's a way to circumvent the bound credits system. We've considered org artifacts at various points, but we've never really set anything in stone in regards to it.

Don't feel bad!

Moirean

She didn't. She was trying to make me feel bad.