Crowd Control

Illikaal

Crowd control (also called CC) is a term used in MMORPGs (Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games) and MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) games to refer to the ability to limit the number of mobs actively fighting during an encounter.[1] It can also refer to abilities that influence or prevent the abilities or actions of other character(s). Crowd control can be extremely powerful, controlling the possible outcomes of an encounter, as it forces opponents to use a smaller set of abilities/actions. Players use crowd control to create offense/defense ratio imbalances between themselves and their opponent(s); used properly, CC often renders an opponent nearly useless, allowing the CCer to use abilities/actions against an opponent without fear of retaliation or response. In a group setting, crowd control often makes combat safer, easier, or viable. <---- taken from wikipedia. 

The above statement is dead on accurate, imo. Hence, why I'd like to have a discussion about crowd control. I absolutely love it as a mechanic in Aetolia, but where is the line between good crowd control, and over the top crowd control? I personally believe that -good- crowd control should have very little damaged tied to it, if any at all, such as hanged man and cocoon, as great examples. I personally don't think that crowd control should have high damage and or secondary crowd control tied to it, impale being the biggest culprit. On Templars, Carnifex, Sentinels, and  Teradrim (though soon due for a rework) alike, I think there's a slight imbalance between all the skills. 

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We'll start with Teradrim first. Although I know they're up for revamps soon, I'll just go ahead and post the numbers anyhow.

Assuming all of the following are Dexterous, and the target has a roughly high audit. 80% is what was used.

4.20 seconds on Impale, 764 cutting damage. 

675 impale tick. Cutting

3.44 seconds Shatter, 2702 unblockable damage. Stalagmite destroyed after shattering, needing a reimpale. 

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Templars with a bastard sword:

4.3 second impale. 497 damage. 

415 cutting damage on impale tick.

3.44 Second disembowel, 2301 unblockable. Weapon automatically removed after Disembowel. 

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Carnifex with a basic polearm: 

3.44 Seconds impale(skewer) time, 965 cutting

567 impale tick. Cutting. 

2.58 pole wrench time, 2120 cutting. Weapon does not get removed, meaning the impaled target can be wrenched repeatedly after that if left impaled. 

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Sentinels: 

3.44 second impale time, 467 damage on initial impale time

567 on impale tick, cutting damage.

2.58 second balance time, 1391 cutting on Gore damage, weapon stays impaled after goring, leaving access for multiple gores provided the target doesn't writhe.

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We do have access to the flame tattoo and disperse. Both help, but at the end of the day are pretty laughable ways to deal with crowd control chained back to back. Don't get me wrong though, if you have 3+ people attacking you at the same time, you probably deserve to die. However, having high damage tied to crowd control, and secondary crowd control seems a bit out of hand to me. By 'secondary' crowd control, i'm referring specifically to impales that maintain their status even after dealing the heavy damage they're intended to deal. Even though I still don't like the idea of the damage that is tied to templar impale, and teradrim impale, most of the damage is put into their finishing ability (which is as it should be), and the crowd control is also removed in the process. 

Side note: I'm not sure on Butterfly, someone please correct me if i'm wrong, but it transfixes without damage. Ascendril also do not transfix with damage or affs tied to it. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind it is, but Sciomancers have a decent chunk of damage 780ish so i'm told, + the transfix itself (if not blind) + dementia and confusion, with the chance of tacking on hallucinations at the end. 

My whole point is this - Since crowd control by itself is so fight changing (and it is), why then are there all these excess effects that just seem unnecessary tied to them? If stun got diminishing returns because it was deemed to be too powerful due to incessant stunlocks, then what is the reasoning behind writhe stacking transfixes, impales, entanglements, jawlocks, webs, snares, and the like if they're just stunlocking in a slightly different fashion? 

Combatants, discuss!

Lanira

Spammable crowd control in general is just not fun or interesting. Being locked out of doing anything because someone has been dedicated to keeping you hindered is lame. I think it'd make team fights a bit more interesting, if it took some effort to lock someone up. Currently, once someone is targeted, they're not even really participating in the fight except as a meatshield for the rest of their team.

Part of the issue is that spamming CC is really the only way to keep someone from walking, lightforming, or pathfindering away. Keeping someone in your room should still be possible, but it shouldn't shut them down. Less easy escapes and more, because I did X to you, you can't leave or are impeded in Y such manner.