Looking for players

Jensen

We already trump the minimal blood and infrequent use of strong language. Seriously it's a group of seasoned rpers with equally seasoned bouncers, its not the end of days. This is turning into the South Park movie

Xavin

Aita said:

"May contain intense violence, blood and gore."

That's not teen. But that's what our combat skills are.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying @Daskalos, I really do. And I sympathize. However, I really think that if the ESRB was going to rate Aetolia like they do other video games, we'd be getting -at least- a mature rating.  Off the top of my head, Aetolia contains prolonged scenes of intense violence, fantasy violence, blood and gore, suggestive themes, crude humor, sexual content (sometimes strong sexual content), simulated gambling, gambling with real currency (in the form of credits), use of alcohol, use of drugs, use of tobacco.

All that said, I can see potential for this to become an issue. I just hope it doesn't.

Sessizlik

I have to say, I really love this idea and if it wasn't for being busy and having low energy (along with summer coming, yay sun!) I would absolutely make an alt for the brothel. I love the rp portion of the game and dislike hunting and such. This Place is going to be an endless source of rp!

Daskalos

Aye, I know. So either we're mature or we're not. We enforce T rating language rules but we're ok with an M rating for everything  else? It's like we're trying to trick parents into letting their kids play, but no parent of a 13 year old is going to let their kid play a game they know has a brothel in it, no matter how tastefully done it is.  -Personally- I don't care about us having a brothel. What I do care about is future players of the game, retention of said players, and things that might push them away\disallow them to play by parental oversight shouldn't be in big public places.  If this is the route we're going to take, I think we should disclaimer it somewhere on the website.

I think sometimes we get so caught up in our 'this is roleplay and we should be able to do whatever we want' that we forget that -kids- 13+ play this game.

Ishin

IDK about the other rules but I've sure as fuck gotten the beat down for languagerules before


Also, chill out @Daskalos , not the end of the world bro. It's just a little brothel, and it'll probably be fun.

Eleanor

How many 13 year olds are going to be sitting down with their parents to play Aetolia? Really? And let's also consider how many 13 year olds get to play GTA because mum and dad don't enforce the M rating... if a kid is legitimately 13 and is the kind of kid who's interested in a completely text-based fantasy writing setting, I think they can probably handle some tasteful sexual content.

Emelle

Xavin said:

Aita said:

"May contain intense violence, blood and gore."

That's not teen. But that's what our combat skills are.

However, I really think that if the ESRB was going to rate Aetolia like they do other video games, we'd be getting -at least- a mature rating.

This.

Not to repeat what's been said yet again, but the odds of a young player wandering into a sexually explicit scene in this establishment (potentially inappropriate sexcapades happening anywhere else IG notwithstanding) are much smaller than them wandering into a scene rife with foul language and/or explicit violence, which are happening out in the open all of the time. If we want to get down to splitting hairs based on standard rating criteria, I'd go out on a limb and say Aetolia isn't a game for 13-year-olds and probably hasn't ever been, really.

ETA: Also, having played Aetolia on and off for over ten years now, I'd say that overall the playerbase is MUCH better about policing itself now than it ever has been. Most of us love the game and care about its welfare.

Daskalos

Actually, when I started playing Achaea I was 14 -- and that was 15 years ago. My mother took it upon herself to watch Achaea, and would randomly stop by and read over my shoulder to see what I was doing. On more than one occasion, I was told not to play Achaea anymore because of the content within. (I still did, just not when they were home or played at school).  It was never the violence that was an issue -- my parents knew I wasn't going to go off killing someone because of a game. But, they wanted to shield me from the language and the sex. 

There -are- parents like that because I've lived it. And I know, from personal experience, if my parents saw a game with a brothel in it I never would have been allowed to play. I've given how much money to Iron Realms over the years? I'm not saying don't have the thing, I'm saying don't put it in a place where it's going to be out in the open for newbies. "Oh, but no newbies go to Delos" -- I saw on the newbie channel THIS MORNING 'go to Delos and seek out Kalinde'. Put it off the beaten path, I shut up. Keep it in Delos, I'm going to keep complaining because if we lose 1 player who might evolve into a credit whore (such as myself) then we've hurt the game.

Eleanor

I don't think anyone's worried about you keeping on complaining.

Edit: Also, your story kind of shoots itself in the foot, because you're saying 'those parents exist, I have them' and you're also saying 'guess what, I ignored them'.

Daskalos

I ignored them, it doesn't mean everyone else did. If we can avoid losing but one player by moving some rooms to an out of the way area, how is that -not- worth it?

Moirean

Give me 2k credits or so to move it to a wilderness area and I'll consider it. It's absurd how much others are trying to dictate how I spend the credits I've worked my butt off to earn. This isn't a building area made by admin. This is a house - every single room and feature in there took me time and cost me credits. I picked Delos because it's neutral and fairly easy to find. The idea is for it to prompt and motivate RP. Putting it somewhere completely hard to find kinda kills that potential.

Eleanor

I think we're going to need to do some science to this, because putting in a meaty place to roleplay has the potential to retain players who otherwise might have gotten bored and gone off to play parallel or something. There's gonna need to be some data on 'novices barred playing by mum' vs 'people staying because they find an addition to the game fun' or else you can't say one is bigger than the other. (You'll likely claim BUT IF NOT IN DELOS IT'S FINE... but if not in delos, the chances of people-who-would-have-been-retained-by-rp finding it is lower, so you're handicapping one of the variables which skews your data).

Daskalos

By your argument, I've spent credits to be better at PK'ing people, so I should be free to PK at whim because of how I spent my money and worked my butt off to earn?

Alee

To be fair Daskalos.. my limited experience with Achaea personally is getting mugged every time I log in... oh and there was that one time a couple of people were 3 rooms away from NoT on the road doing oral... right there. Most of the time Achaea has been more vulgar then anything I come across in Aetolia. I don't think Achaea is the best example by comparison.

Daskalos

This was in the early days of Achaea, when people like @irruel played there. He can tell you, the Achaea of today is nothing like the Achaea of yesterday.

Emelle

Daskalos said:

By your argument, I've spent credits to be better at PK'ing people, so I should be free to PK at whim because of how I spent my money and worked my butt off to earn?

These things are not same

Moirean

.

Emelle

ok, errbody pls2be stopping now

hey, don't jack our mod color!

i thought this was a democracy!

Eleanor

Daskalos said:

By your argument, I've spent credits to be better at PK'ing people, so I should be free to PK at whim because of how I spent my money and worked my butt off to earn?

Nope, because there's admin-stated rules against that. If the admins want to step in and make a rule against moi's player house, that's their prerogative, but she could easily describe it as a normal house and still have the RP she's intending to. And if you want them to start barring certain kinds of RP... well.

Daskalos

It has nothing to do with you, @moirean. It has everything to do with a brothel isn't suitable for a 13 year old, which is what we market are game towards. Either we're a mature game, or we're not. You were muted the other day for shouting the F word. If we're a mature game, then that should be fine. As should your brothel. My issue is that it's in a public place that newbies wander into. Maybe @Razmael or @Oleis can chime in with their opinion. 

Moirean

References to sexuality are encompassed by a PG-13 label. Prime-time TV covers such things more and more these days, and in Europe it's even more common (violence is censored more than sex, unlike in America where it's flipped). Again, I invite you to go visit the estate in question - there are no naked people with legs spread or sex being performed in public. There are cheeky references and hints, suggestive barely-there illustrations, etc - it's all about what's being implied, versus crassly just showing nudity and sex. Heck, even the drink names are mild. I have "Love in Ulangi" instead of sex on the beach.

Slyphe

Moirean's already established that this is to be a PG-13 rated thing, just as we've enforced in the past. The administration will be keeping an eye on the place.

That said, I do think it's a little wonky that you're more concerned with a younger player seeing something mildly sexual than you are them seeing something like this, which is an integral part of the game:

You watch in horror, helpless, as Desian's fist is wreathed in crackling black 
energy. With a diabolical laugh, he stiffens his hand and slowly runs it down 
your chest, splitting it open as he does so. Though you scream in pain and beg 
to die, Desian proceeds to rip apart your organs, magnifying the pain until you 
are driven nearly mad. With a detached smile upon his face, he proceeds to rip 
out your sternum and drive it through your already splayed-out body, pinning it 
to the ground and finally killing you.

Sessizlik

Just Think about how much sex -and- violence there is in Game of Thrones. I am sure a lot of teens Watch that show. I don't Think this brothel will come eve Close to that, or to others things that has happened in this game.

Ashmer

At least it was Desian and not @Xiuhcoatl, @Slyphe. You got lucky, there.

Alee

I think the initial concern was still location... if it happens that more then the random novice happens by then having it moved ought to be strongly considered... just as another aspect to keep an eye on at least.

Moirean

It costs double the credits for construction and mods to put a house in the wilderness, versus in a city. If I'm pressured to move it, I'm going to elect for the cheaper option, aka Spinesreach, because the cost of moving it to wilderness would be incredibly prohibitive, but then you shut out access to Spirean enemies. Delos was chosen intentionally.

Lin

Do you see what I mean! There's no coming back from the Vivisect argument.

Xavin

To be fair, it's in a pretty out of the way spot in Delos.I think if it's watched carefully, it'll be okay.

Daskalos

If it's watched, I'm ok with it. I'm willing to see how it plays out, as @Slyphe acknowledged that it will be watched. My concern was location and everyone acts like I'm trying to stomp on their RP fun. I never said 'shut it down'. I do worry about novice retention, as I enjoy the game and want it to keep on keepin' on and I worry about the image we put forth. First impressions are everything. 

Lim

I think it's pretty clear that the brothel meets the game's standards. In itself, the brothel isn't the problem.

However, what might be a concern is the risk of explicit content leaking out through carelessness or negligence, perhaps through accidental emotes in the public area, screaming from orgasms, etc. While this is a risk, I think it has to be balanced against the benefit that everyone stands to gain from the brothel's existence. The idea shouldn't be shot down prematurely because of what everyone stand to gain. I'm glad everyone seems to acknowledge this.

Looking ahead, monitoring and enforcement should be our primary concern. While the admin will do their part, I think as players that we too can help. We all love the game. We all want it to be fun.  Moirean may have paid for it, but it can just as much be a common project that everyone benefits and derives fun from. Without letting cliques or IG sides bleed into our sense of basic decency and courtesy to one another, it would be nice to work together to make this thing work. Simple things like sending OOC notes to the right people in charge (if it's an employee, let Moirean or whoever may be helping her do OOC policing deal with it). Or just send an OOC note to the person - maybe it was careless, and it would help for us to remind each other from time to time.

I think this doesn't have to be an acrimonious affair. Personally, I'm looking forward to it as being a centerpiece for breaching the OOC gap of interaction between sides.