Lore questions.

Arbre

That's the order they were born in, more or less, but I never took it to be their power level.

Veovis

Oleis said:

Haven said:

Speaking of Varian, will he ever have more of a role in the game than is currently present?

Probably not. He was a producer god before we realized those were better off not having important game roles. If my Aetolian history is correct, the last Varian is the president of the company. He's a busy dude.

Your history is correct. The last Varian took over as producer from the first Varian who, well, wasn't so hot as a producer. Aetolia has the dubious distinction of being the only IRE MUD in existence to have had its producer removed twice by someone higher up in the company.

Phoenecia

So, regarding all of the races that lay eggs (Grecht, Xorani, Horkval, and I'm assuming Grook and Kelki), how the heck is it possible for them to interbreed with the races that bear live young?

Also, I don't remember if there was ever anything that outright dispelled the whole connection with Azudim to the 'dark/undeath' side after it was made so people could pick which one they could be. ICly, some people still believe Azudim is connected to undeath and darkness, and I don't think I've ever seen anything concrete beyond the help file, which states Azudim is the embodiment of death and destruction.

Arbre

Azudim has never been officially undeath or darkness.  It is anger hate kill kill in theory, which is why it was embraced by the darkies, and since everything is living vs. undeath, that's what it because associated with.  If anything, I'd almost connect Azudim to DHAR, because of the whole death thing, but that might be pushing it a bit.

Daskalos

I know back when I got Yeleni, it was when we had to be imbued by a god (i.e. a god had to do it), Azudim wasn't an option via Auresae, even though PK wise it was a better fit since it was the EQ boost and Azudim was the balance boost. We were expressly told that Azudim  were 'the generals of Undeath'. It wasn't until later that that changed.

Veovis

Phoenecia said:

So, regarding all of the races that lay eggs (Grecht, Xorani, Horkval, and I'm assuming Grook and Kelki), how the heck is it possible for them to interbreed with the races that bear live young?

Also, I don't remember if there was ever anything that outright dispelled the whole connection with Azudim to the 'dark/undeath' side after it was made so people could pick which one they could be. ICly, some people still believe Azudim is connected to undeath and darkness, and I don't think I've ever seen anything concrete beyond the help file, which states Azudim is the embodiment of death and destruction.

There was some in game lore that said Azudim were generals of Undead armies in the ancient past. They seem to have changed that, but I'm not familiar with the updated lore if there is any. I think I had stopped playing by that time; I'm guessing it was around 2010 when they made the change, because I played up through 2008 and don't remember anything other than Azudim being tied in with Undeath. 

Haven

Phoenecia said:

So, regarding all of the races that lay eggs (Grecht, Xorani, Horkval, and I'm assuming Grook and Kelki), how the heck is it possible for them to interbreed with the races that bear live young?

Also, I don't remember if there was ever anything that outright dispelled the whole connection with Azudim to the 'dark/undeath' side after it was made so people could pick which one they could be. ICly, some people still believe Azudim is connected to undeath and darkness, and I don't think I've ever seen anything concrete beyond the help file, which states Azudim is the embodiment of death and destruction.

I just assume mating doesn't work the same way it does in Aetolia as it does in real life. The closest connection to base Aet mating off of that I can think of off the top of my head would be... kind of like the Asari from Mass Effect who can successfully mate with any race. Except instead of always being a female Asari with some minor traits from the other parental race, in Aetolia, you are always either or of the parental races with minor traits of the race you're not that may grow more prominent when you reach endgame. (Like a discoloring in the eyes or something.) That seems to be what the playerbase has generally done with that topic.

So it would suggest that one of the major differences in birth for Aetolian races would be that some races's bodies can actually handle birthing to full term (Humans, Mhuns, etc) while others cannot (Grecht, Xoran, Horkval) and simply lay eggs to do the work for them.

Omei

Haven said:

Hrm. So is Varian's role going to be gradually phased out? That kind of sucks.

Is it true that the gods are all pretty much equal in power now? Because I always thought the hierarchy was based on "power-level" for a lack of a better term and not just the order of their creation by Varian.

1. Varian
   
2. Severn and Damariel
   
3. Haern, Dhar, Lleis
   
4. Ivoln, Auresae, Galleus/Maghak, Slyphe
   
5. Iosyne, Omei, Chakrasul, Khepri
   

• Varian's role isn't "phased out" so much as he has taken a backseat to the proceedings of the world beneath Him. Most mortals will live their entire lives without seeing Him directly influence the realm.
• Your tiers are actually correct. Gods of a higher tier are much more powerful than those of the tier(s) below, as a consequence of how much of reality their essence and powers influence. In the tier itself, powers change and shift all the time. For instance, Iosyne is probably the most powerful of the lowest tier, or what we call the Virtues.

Arbre

Omei said:

Haven said:

Hrm. So is Varian's role going to be gradually phased out? That kind of sucks.

Is it true that the gods are all pretty much equal in power now? Because I always thought the hierarchy was based on "power-level" for a lack of a better term and not just the order of their creation by Varian.

1. Varian
   
2. Severn and Damariel
   
3. Haern, Dhar, Lleis
   
4. Ivoln, Auresae, Galleus/Maghak, Slyphe
   
5. Iosyne, Omei, Chakrasul, Khepri
   

• Varian's role isn't "phased out" so much as he has taken a backseat to the proceedings of the world beneath Him. Most mortals will live their entire lives without seeing Him directly influence the realm.
• Your tiers are actually correct. Gods of a higher tier are much more powerful than those of the tier(s) below, as a consequence of how much of reality their essence and powers influence. In the tier itself, powers change and shift all the time. For instance, Iosyne is probably the most powerful of the lowest tier, or what we call the Virtues.

Why?

Moirean

That tier concept has really not been reflected much in game and it's a bit jarring and kind of disappointing to learn all of a suddenly that the strongest order belongs to one of the weakest goddesses. Mortal worship seems to play very little part in divine strength, so what effect does worship have on the divine?

Omei

@Arbre:

I'd prefer to page @Maghak, @Damariel, or @Razmael for that one. There are a lot of factors we take into account, though an answer I can give is that it all boils down to us eyeballing the God's assets, acquisitions, and their general doings as of late.

Omei

Moirean said:

That tier concept has really not been reflected much in game and it's a bit jarring and kind of disappointing to learn all of a suddenly that the strongest order belongs to one of the weakest goddesses. Mortal worship seems to play very little part in divine strength, so what effect does worship have on the divine?

Pardon the double post. I probably shouldn't have used "much more powerful". True, Damariel could whip Iosyne around like a red-headed stepchild, but His and Severn's cases are somewhat unique. It's not as if you have to fear Dhar suddenly going I THINK NOT and smashing Ivoln into a pulp to reclaim all the undead.

Addendum: I'm going to leave the majority of questions here to the big guys. I try to chip in where I can but I'm not even as well-versed in the lore as some of our players, I only happen to have a Divine viewpoint. That doesn't mean you shouldn't keep the questions coming!

Angwe

So souls =/ spirits? I (and Angwe) have been laboring under the belief that Carnifex are actually enslaving and consuming spirits (i.e. ancestral spirits) to power their abilities and that the only difference between things like shades, ghosts and the like and the sorts of spirits one finds in places like Dendara are a degree of mental health (influenced by too many different factors to get into just yet) and location.

When a Carnifex steals 'soul' from you (I had believed) they are literally weakening your being and your temporal existence. How far off was I?

Damariel

Phoenecia said:

So, regarding all of the races that lay eggs (Grecht, Xorani, Horkval, and I'm assuming Grook and Kelki), how the heck is it possible for them to interbreed with the races that bear live young?

Kelki, in a manner similar to dolphins, bear live young. The rest of those races, however, have egg-laying reproduction.

As for how interbreeding between them is possible, we do not officially endorse interbreeding between any Aetolian races as canon. While half-breeds, both NPC and PC, have existed and continue to exist in the game, they tend to bear closer resemblance to one parent or the other.

Maghak

Xavin said:

Question: What makes the shadow and spirit planes habitable by mortals where the four 'traditional' planes are not?

Question 2: Regarding progressive enchantments: What were the Naldereth trying to do with them? Did they have a specific purpose for each one? Is the purpose of the few that remain known? (Granted, I only know of one that still exists)

#1: This is actually quite an important plot point that will eventually be resolved IC. As a trite answer for the thread, I'm going to say it comes down to relative size.

#2: Unfortunately the people responsible for progressive enchantments (and most of the Naldareth lore) didn't keep any notes (this is a common theme in Aetolia lore upkeep). All I can really say without edging into spoiler territory is that the Naldareth were first and foremost committed to seeing the future, so it's likely that the progressive enchantments tie into either that or the coming of the Third Child.

Haven said:

Is it true that the gods are all pretty much equal in power now? Because I always thought the hierarchy was based on "power-level" for a lack of a better term and not just the order of their creation by Varian.

The hierarchy has become quite muddled; the ranking you posted was correct once, but various gods have suffered various powerups or powerdowns, such as Iosyne pacting with Llazuth, Maghak not having access to a vast swathe of Galleus' knowledge, and Haern being wounded by the Aalen Bloom. There is still a very clear distinction between Severn/Damariel, the elemental gods and the Virtues though.

Angwe said:

When a Carnifex steals 'soul' from you (I had believed) they are literally weakening your being and your temporal existence. How far off was I?

A spirit is something like a naked soul with a 'body' made of Spirit (likewise for shadows with obvious differences). Stealing the soul from a body is equivalent to stealing all the electrical impulses from a human body somehow, and hence quite destructive. 

Ezalor

How much of an impact do orders serve for the Divine? Are they just essence gatherers, and what happens if a Divine runs out of essence?

From an IC standpoint, why don't the Divine just swat aside any non-Divine who pisses them off? I always assumed that if Ezalor went and royally pissed off Dhar, for example, He wouldn't be able to just permanently disintegrate me because Iosyne would be stopping Him, but if He's a few tiers above Iosyne why doesn't He?

Omei

Ezalor said:

From an IC standpoint, why don't the Divine just swat aside any non-Divine who pisses them off? I always assumed that if Ezalor went and royally pissed off Dhar, for example, He wouldn't be able to just permanently disintegrate me because Iosyne would be stopping Him, but if He's a few tiers above Iosyne why doesn't He?

To answer this one personally, some of us actually do. Anyone who's shouted at Her knows that Omei has a very, very low tolerance for disrespect and doesn't easily suffer fools. We have to tread softly around permanent changes because let's be honest, this is a customer-based game and we want you to have fun. Even I'll put the spear away if you've had too many zaps.

Again, answering only for my own role, yes, there are consequences to a Divine personally punishing someone. Without revealing spoilers, Omei's recent zapping of Moirean is proving to have some setbacks.

Arbre

Omei said:

Even I'll put the spear away if you've had too many zaps. 

You never have to put the spear away with me, baby.

Maghak

Generally speaking, mass murder of heroes belonging to your allies or enemies will get you attention You really don't want or need. Unmaking someone outright is also extremely difficult and not something that a God would be bothered to do over a personal slight.

That said, the major restriction is OOC. Harassing players to a realistic level for IC behavior rapidly steps over into destroying work paid for in customer time and often money, and obviously that's a very poor approach for an administration team to take.

Moirean

Still curious about my question, though. Why do the gods care if their followers are killed off? Do we have some influence on their power? Everyone says shrine energy is something else entirely, but if so, why would the gods care about building up their orders and protecting their followers?

Arbre

@Omei lurves me.

Slyphe

My personal take on this (not by any means necessarily true or the shared opinion of anybody else):

There's power in numbers, and the more active of a presence you have theoretically the more power you would have. If a god has followers that embody the god well and do a good job of spreading their influence, teaching tenets, etc., those followers become assets worth protecting. 

While a God easily could go out and hold sermons on their own, single-handedly fight in wars, and try influencing others in their image on their own, it's a lot of work that doesn't necessarily have to be done by one person. 

Consider a CEO that's worked their way up to the position from the most basic entry-level position in a company. By the time they've gotten to the position they're in, they're certainly knowledgeable and capable of the positions that lead up to theirs, but it's not practical to do it on their own. If said CEO has a worker/partner/what have you that does exemplary work and proves to be an asset, the CEO is going to do everything in their power to keep that person with them. The Gods are kind of similar here.

/my .02

Omei

Arbre said:

@Omei lurves me.

My Order knows exactly why I wouldn't want them harmed. Deep personal bond.

Damariel

Moirean said:

Still curious about my question, though. Why do the gods care if their followers are killed off? Do we have some influence on their power? Everyone says shrine energy is something else entirely, but if so, why would the gods care about building up their orders and protecting their followers?

In my view, honestly, that answer varies from god to god! The motivations are just as numerous and complex as any that a lesser being might have, with essence being only one variable amid a multitude. Some gods want to teach their followers to live by a certain worldview, some gods might want validation from their followers, some gods want followers to accomplish specific tasks and purposes, and some gods just really like mortals. It's a complex issue, and not one that can be cleanly prescribed. Your best bet is probably to find out IC what motivates an individual god.

Maghak

Maghak has no sizable order because the only purpose they serve for Him is leverage over various groups (and useful assets to His work). It really comes down to the specific God at hand.

Ezalor

I think my Goddess is just hungry.

Arbre

Omei said:

Arbre said:

@Omei lurves me.

My Order knows exactly why I wouldn't want them harmed. Deep personal sexual bond.

ftfy

Moirean

But we don't really have any influence on their actual strength? What is the lore-reason for offering corpses and stuff, then? Not trying to be contentious, it's just something I've always wondered about (Moi's theorized that without worship the gods get weaker, which seems quite wrong I guess).

Iosyne

Offerings are tied to shrine essence/shrine energy, which is how Gods get the essence for blessings and shrine powers.

Moirean

Well I know that mechanically, I just was curious if there was more from a lore perspective. At one point there didn't used to be a split between shrine energy and god energy and I remember the changed being announced as an OOC thing for mechanics purposes, I thought?