Racial Flavour (not that kind of flavor)

TiurTiur ProducerMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 239 admin
As we move ahead with some of our projects, and the consideration of racial skills and flavour, I wanted to hear from you, the players; what you find useful or important, so that we can best put our time to use with development.

What kinds of things do you find important, when it comes to developing your character and their racial tie, or would you like to see when it comes to NPC communities?

Unique holidays
Racial games (Trollish oiled wrestling, Impish kick-the-beehive, Djeri Hazard/craps?)
Cultural foods
Toasts
Clothing/garment/material preferences
How much language would you like to be made available?
Footnotes on age/gender/occupation dynamics?
Etc (fill in your own blank: "I wish I knew more about ___ for ")

Additionally, have you seen other players do something really solid with their racial RP that you think should get more of a spotlight/be taken under consideration as canon? Keep in mind this is not a guarantee nor right.

----
Less serious notes:

All recommendations of Tsol'aa information will be discarded, because I am a racist.
Rajamala Harem Island is already canon, no worries.
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Comments

  • XeniaXenia Member Posts: 879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Toz's racial backstory as a Grecht I think is pretty solid. Made up before the current revelation of the group of Grecht living in the northern plateaus. I don't remember the exact details beyond there was an island of Grecht that due to societal laws he had to flee by taking off and gliding off into the sunset until he landed in Sapience somewhere.
    image
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Small tribal style because there was just... Nothing, not even a helpfile on grecht when I made him. So he had all these stories/tribal myths that he'd tell sometimes, and that's why he's missing a chunk of ear (exile from that group was marked that way). It was a big part of me starting blank slate when I came back on him - all that Grecht history stuff was real awkward in the face of the huge empire of doom that rules all.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


  • VashVash Member Posts: 114 ✭✭✭
    I would like to have help with descriptions. Things like typical ranges for height, eye color, hair color, weight, skin tone etc. Also a common naming style (or even just a list of NPC names in the help files).
    Typically In Game: JST (GMT+9) 6AM-8AM and 6PM-10PM
    ZailaKelliaraCamilleTeani
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    I could go on and on about NPC village and racial culture forever as that's one of my favorite aspects of the game to think about, having studied a lot of sociology and anthropology. There are snippets here and there that are enough to imply a given culture for various places, but there's so much more that can be done to flesh them out.

    Unique holidays/celebrations: I love these because it gives insight into what a given culture values or views as important. Attica had a quest added to it recently that I love where you're essentially helping the entire village celebrate a birthday, and I'd love to see similar things in other NPC settlements that give a little something extra to it. Like a rite of passage for hunters in the Mitrine where you help a young hunter take down difficult prey. Or helping gather things for a village that worships and reveres its ancestors. What do the Mhun do to celebrate the Liberation of Moghedu? What are different marriage/courtship customs like in different regions? What important events do they celebrate? Things like that.

    Racial games: If you can code it or imply its existence, I'm all for it. For some reason I imagine Rajamalans playing whatever that Mayan ball game is because Saluria comes off as very Mayan/Incan/Aztec. El'Jazirans? Desert horse races since Jaziran horses are known for speed and stamina. Back when Esterport was still Delos, I used to RP that whenever the arena wasn't being used for combat by players, they have scheduled 'gladiator' fights akin to what TV wrestling is like with Face and Heel fighters, and ridiculous storylines.

    Cultural foods: This I am hugely in favor of as food is very heavily influenced by culture. I once had a discussion about what kinds of foods various regions would have in Aetolia based on their surrounding resources and the RL cultures they emulate. For example, Arbothia sells wine in its inn, and also sells a few ingredients used for brewing, which would imply to me that it's in a region that produces a lot of wine/spirits. Also to reference a particular quest in Attica, all of the food you're required to get ingredients for are local favorites, and use ingredients primarily found in the region (fish, cheese, dairy, artichoke).

    Language: As far as language goes, I think most racial languages are covered, along with languages from some NPC villages. If you want to go more detailed than that, I'd probably suggest dialects as opposed to out and out new languages. A Kelki from Mournhold wouldn't speak the same way as a Kelki from Kelun Harbor. You could probably have it so that once you've learned the general racial language, it gets broken up further into dialects. Maybe it's too complicated - I dunno, but it's something to consider.

    Races in need of more love: Rajas have some pretty awesome lore, but some of it can be difficult to find. At least it was before Ati became a huge thing. Grooks and Horkval could use more expansion too. Like how the hell do they breed? Do they lay eggs (speaking of, which races lay eggs and which ones have live birth, or are they all capable of live birth)? Do Horkval worship/pledge fealty to a queen? Atavians in Aerie and the Atav have caste systems, as do the Grecht - what other cultural Dynamics exist within the other races?

    Naming conventions: This can be relatively minor, but I know some people use it in naming their characters. The Mhun, for example, tend to have -entesh in their names. Djeirani names trend towards Italian-sounding. El-Jazirans have Middle Eastern sounding names (apparently the Caentoi in Albedos do too). Attican names are very German. Salurians have names that sound vaguely Mayan/Incan/Aztec. 
    KelliaraVash
  • SibattiSibatti Amidst vibrant flora and treesMember Posts: 190 ✭✭✭✭
    Cultural foods is the one I feel the most strongly about. So much of cuisine is influenced by the region its in, and it's one of the RP avenues I really enjoy pursuing with Sibatti - that she tends to cook within certain cultures and favor ingredients/spices that are all tend to be found within the same region.

    Whether it's that or the other options listed above (which I am in huge support of), please PLEASE give the older villages/areas some love instead of making new areas to drop lorebombs. There have been a lot of non-playable races added in the past few years, with really cool flavor - but it would be much preferable if that flavor was something that you could tie into a character's background legitimately, instead of trying to bastardize your origin story.
    KelliaraVashCaolan
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 252 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm gonna be the one to say it, because we all know this is my favourite thing (I'm not being sarcastic, I love this dumb rp):

    How do various species' reproductive systems work?
    *Hot controversial topics*
    • Tsol'aa: Pregnancy length- I've ICly heard STRONG OPPOSITION on the answer to this question. Something this seemingly insignificant to the game shouldn't be causing the IGNORE command because people can't agree on the answer. Just make something up and stick it in the HELP file! Save us all!
    • Xoran/Kelki/Horkval/Grook: Are they Mammals? Do they get boobs?
    • Atavian/Xoran/Kelki/Horal/Grook: Live bearers, or do they lay eggs? We know Kelki roe is a thing.
    • Interspecies breeding: Can they? Do half-breed species *really* exist? Are they all Asari and always come out like Mom? Is it a 50/50?
    It is hard to RP things consistently when there isn't a official stamp somewhere!
    VashCamilleIshin
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    I had more thoughts on this. In regards to NPC villages, I would like to see things that would make them feel more 'alive'. This can be anywhere from atmospheric messages describing carts rolling by on their way to deliver goods to the local stores, groups of miners making their way to and from mines, NPCs playing their trade or talking about other NPCs, etc. 

    Not sure if anyone has really seen it, but Helba is a very good example of an NPC village that feels alive (could use more NPCs wandering around, but I digress). Helba functions on a schedule in some parts, meaning the shops are only open at certain times, or you'll only find an NPC in a given place at certain times. It has a tavern, a post office, refinery for the mines, scout towers. There's a lot going on, and it's neat to see.

    I'm not saying every NPC village has to be as complex as Helba, but as I said, it's little things.
    KelliaraVash
  • TiurTiur Producer Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 239 admin
    Post count to get to discussing boobs: 7. My bet: 10. I owe @Antehe cookies.

    (On a real note, I'll come up with something official. Either we will flat out say "We will never answer this." or we'll try to make data)
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 252 ✭✭✭✭
    I celebrate my additions toward @Antehe 's successes!
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't recall if it was a volunteer or not that said this but I do remember someone declaring that half-breeds do not exist in Aetolia at all and thus the off-spring will be the full-blooded race of either parent.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
    ArbreTeani
  • FezzixFezzix Member Posts: 126 ✭✭✭
    Tiur said:


    Djeri Hazard/craps

    Yes.

  • CamilleCamille Member Posts: 50 ✭✭
    edited September 26
    This is probably not so great, mechanically, but when I played an imp, I always thought it'd be humorous if certain things were harder on account of the size difference. Clothes would have to be altered, sitting on big-people-sized chairs would take 3-4s of balance since you have to climb up onto it (same, perhaps longer, for mounts), short blade weapons (dagger) being sword-sized to them; heavy/big weapons (scythe, warhammer) being unusable without modification...

    But, as neat as these sound to my ear, as I said, the trouble for imp players probably doesn't outweigh the nifty (though useless) "benefits". It's not as if these things can't be roleplayed or emoted without being hard-coded in...
    Post edited by Camille on
    My avatar is not representative of how I or my character look.
  • CaolanCaolan StrayaMember Posts: 13 ✭✭
    I have a lot of fun playing Caolan as someone who wasn't brought up entirely within the orcish culture, but who tried from childhood to get more in touch with it. It gives me an IC excuse on why his "cultural" behaviour might not be in line with the canon lore culture, if it does turn out to be so. For him, the two 'big' thing from his culture are the scarification and wrestling.

    With scarification, I feel a little more canonical basis would be nice to work on. At this point, Caolan's designed (and shared with his family) the scars for the Laidir bloodline, but I had to make it up off the top of my head since I couldn't find any accessible information on it. I don't think it needs a mechanic, just maybe some info in a help file or a denizen book on it, or something.

    RE: Oiled troll wrestling, I've mentioned before in the class fluff thread, but I would love to see a mechanical wrestling system (oiled or muddied or whatever.) Even if it's just a greenskin (orc, ogre, troll) thing, but it would also be nice to have a mechanical thing. It could be a kind of paper-scissors-rock system, or PRNG based on stats, or anything, but I'd love it.
  • CaolanCaolan StrayaMember Posts: 13 ✭✭
    Lin said:


    Djeirani:
    I think they should be a playable race! They have some seriously in-depth lore and culture. A deep caste system; social status and noteability based on skin and hair color; the quasi-Italian royalty motif. Plus we could stop making fun of people who try to RP as them.

    pls

    ZailaIshin
  • KelliaraKelliara Member Posts: 461 ✭✭✭✭
    Lin said:

    I am here literally just to point out to @Zaila that Kelki canonically have boobs.


    Lore-wise, weren't Kelki made specifically, among other things, to be kinda good looking? I vaguely recall hearing/reading that someplace.
    Now with 253% more Madness.
    Chibi-Kelli by @Eleanor.
  • RunasRunas Member Posts: 75 ✭✭✭
    It is my understanding that Djeirani are kinda like Drow...or like Dark elves I guess...

    I would be on board to have Djeirani as a playable race, since I have kinda muddled my own backstory to be a Dark-Elf archetype, that being said, Tsol'aa lore is consistently based around, being the children of the forest, so they always seemed kind of a super Spirit aligned Race....Perhaps something akin to Tsol'aa who used elementalism or were mages would be cool, not that im saying its a must have cause roleplay can workaround and create itself based on a players needs, but myself and Siofra both worked to develop rich elementalist tsol'aa lore and backstory for ourselves and left it super vague to its ties to sapience on purpose for something akin to dark elves practicing magic.

    So that would be cool if we could have some sort of place to tie it back to if that is the case.

    Also, ability to switch Heritage on new race release would be awesome for those sorts of people who may have ties to different races. Somewhat like we did with the Orc, Ogre, Arqueshi, and Nazetu releases when there were some neat events, I was able to heritage change once from Troll to Ogre which was super cool.
    The Divine voice of Tiur echoes in your head, "You know better than that. Bad."
    A telekinetic newspaper swats your nose.
  • KasimirKasimir Clearwater, FLMember Posts: 15
    edited September 26
    tl;dr Some races need really basic stuff before I could reasonably ask for more culturally sensitive details.
    Tiur said:

    I'd like enough information available on each of the character races to be able to have a believable background when I finish the Academy. I'd also like there to be in-game references for these things. I may be just picking on something that doesn't have a lot of support but...

    HELP HORKVAL

    The file doesn't give me a hive location I can visit or HELP. There's no information about what I can and shouldn't look like. I'm uncomfortable, as an experienced player, knowing that:

    , and their chitinous bodies lend them a natural protection unmatched by any other mortal race. These blessings of the body have taken their toll on the Horkvali, however, and they find themselves less prepared to master the magical arts.

    is wrong and useless because it's based before statpacks existed.

    HELP HORKVALORIGIN

    The most this tells me if that, more than likely, women are in charge in Horkvali society, and men are probably fewer and farther between outside of "hives". Cannibalism should be rolled into any cheeky conversation.

    That's it.

    Let's look at a more modern race.

    HELP ORC

    Here, I have philosophy, looks (both body and equipment), locations, and religion. It may be a few before I figure out to HELP DUN, HELP RAHN, and then take some time to look for books or other in-game history tied to both things, but I have something to look at all.

    What matters to me?
    • Give me an idea where I can be born and raised. Please make it somewhere that can be visited, so I can find out what's also nearby and should be familiar to me.
    • Give me some traits of cultural significance. What am I expected to care about, so I know what makes me unique in comparison to next guy who's also my race?
    • Let me have a box of physical traits, so I can pick from it and build the body.
    ZailaVashXeniaIshin
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Antehe Maybe this isn't the best place for heritage discussion but since it's already been brought up....honestly, I understand the want to make race matter more. The problem is that you can more or less freely reincarnate before you hit 99 and then suddenly you're locked into a heritage that you may not have actually looked at or realized what you were signing up for. Never mind that 98 levels can fly by in a matter of real-life weeks these days. Add to the fact that not all heritages are created equal - some of them are pretty lame, really. Honestly, I see no reason why there shouldn't be some way of changing heritage. Make it an artifact similar to the crystal of rebirth and slap the ability to change heritage onto transmutation as well. Bang, done. Because let's be real about this. The people who are primarily concerned with the mechanical aspects of heritage are most likely not going to be the ones that are doing a lot of race-based role play. Though I will admit I could be wrong about that.

    VashRunasTeaniMariena
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My one idea for heritage to smooth it over a bit is just to give each race like 3 to choose from with lots of overlaps most of the races share similar enough traits/origins(Environmental preferences) that things could make sense. Or give everyone the option of taking the human one instead.




  • AnteheAntehe Member, Immortal Posts: 371 Immortal
    And in there is part of the debate - Heritage should be flavour and RP primarily. If the mechanics aren't equally useful/appealing, then the mechanics need to be looked at (or removed).

    Making it clearer in help files that Tekal hardlocks your Heritage so make sure you're what you want to be before hand is something we can do.

    As I said, it's an issue of debate that we're working through.

    More in-depth Heritage discussions can be saved for a dedicated thread.
  • KalakKalak Member Posts: 145 ✭✭✭
    edited September 26
    Before suggesting flavors: What I would like is to remove ascended race from the description. I would very much be content with the original race being shown on the description (as an option).

    Dwarves: If I remember correctly Dwarves were promised to be encouraged towards drinking, else they would face unspeakable consequences, in the Town Hall. Though I might be coloring the words of @Tiur a bit here...memory is hazy.

    Humans: Since they are a numerous race in many fantasy settings, a flavor ability along the lines of the theme "Adaptability" would be great. Such as an additional language choice, or something else which will show their widespread nature.

    Oil Wrestling: I am Turkish and I support any kind of oil wrestling! Now if only we can find a tailor who can sew those "kispet" (wrestler's tights) for all those ready to "get their hands in this" challenging and oily sport.
    Mariena
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    Kasimir said:

    tl;dr Some races need really basic stuff before I could reasonably ask for more culturally sensitive details.

    Tiur said:

    I'd like enough information available on each of the character races to be able to have a believable background when I finish the Academy. I'd also like there to be in-game references for these things. I may be just picking on something that doesn't have a lot of support but...

    HELP HORKVAL

    The file doesn't give me a hive location I can visit or HELP. There's no information about what I can and shouldn't look like. I'm uncomfortable, as an experienced player, knowing that:

    , and their chitinous bodies lend them a natural protection unmatched by any other mortal race. These blessings of the body have taken their toll on the Horkvali, however, and they find themselves less prepared to master the magical arts.

    is wrong and useless because it's based before statpacks existed.

    HELP HORKVALORIGIN

    The most this tells me if that, more than likely, women are in charge in Horkvali society, and men are probably fewer and farther between outside of "hives". Cannibalism should be rolled into any cheeky conversation.

    That's it.

    Let's look at a more modern race.

    HELP ORC

    Here, I have philosophy, looks (both body and equipment), locations, and religion. It may be a few before I figure out to HELP DUN, HELP RAHN, and then take some time to look for books or other in-game history tied to both things, but I have something to look at all.

    What matters to me?
    • Give me an idea where I can be born and raised. Please make it somewhere that can be visited, so I can find out what's also nearby and should be familiar to me.
    • Give me some traits of cultural significance. What am I expected to care about, so I know what makes me unique in comparison to next guy who's also my race?
    • Let me have a box of physical traits, so I can pick from it and build the body.
    come find me. i will tell you all there is to know about the Horkval Canon which i've made up and it's better than whatever anyone is planning or has done previously (e.g. That One Book on Horkval).

    more Seriously, though, reading through some of the thread makes me really hope those races that aren't well-defined in HELP files (or wherever else) don't receive the DEUS EX RETCON treatment - rather, i'd hope admin will take the time to speak with players who've taken the time to develop their characters' identities into account. maybe this sounds overly-dramatic, but i'd quite seriously be furious to find that all of the things i've thought out and integrated into my character were suddenly WRONG. you know, kind of like what it sounds like happened to @Toz. for real, i feel very strongly about this, and people who've gotten to know Vyx can attest that what i've developed is both consistent and integral to the character.

    ... but moving on.

    without getting too long-winded about it, i feel like some of the conception of race we're using here is inaccurate, promotes harmful ways of understanding race IRL, and ultimately limits what's possible for players to do with their characters in unnecessary ways. sci-fi/fantasy genres tend to conflate a number of concepts - including ethnicity, nationality, culture, species(!!!), etc - with race. are some of these related? sure. are they the same? lol, no. unicorns no. yet, here we are discussing "races" as though they, for the most part, should be treated as ethnically, culturally, etc., homogeneous. this doesn't make sense to me. here in the OOC world, "race" is a complexly-constructed and context-dependent social-economic category, and most of us are aware (i genuinely hope, anyways) that human "races" are not distinct species, race and ethnicity are distinct, ethnicity and culture are distinct, etc. to take my own background for example, i'm ethnically iranian, culturally west-coast-us american, racially coded as white or (sometimes) other, and so on and so forth. i share some of these things with other iranians, but far from all. i share some of these things with other culturally west-coast-us americans, but verrryyyy far from all. h*ck, even "iranian" as an ethnic term is oversimplifying. etcetera, etcetera ad nauseam.

    my point is: combining all of these things under "race" has generally been a bad deal. maybe some of you don't particularly care how perpetuating discourse in a game also works to perpetuate it 'outside' (or just think the RL-effects aren't as big of a deal as i do), so think a bit about where this leaves us as players. do you really want "races" in the game to be monolithic? must all race-X be from location-Y, share the same culture, etc? that doesn't make a lick of sense to me as a person who knows this isn't how things work, and it doesn't appeal to me as a player who would like a degree of freedom to be a part of developing lore that expands the game world.

    tl;dr this bug is against canonizing static cultural/social/etc identities for the IG races
    You ease yourself out of the Tiger stance.
    You sink back into the menacing stance of the Scorpion.
    Jaymi sinks into the wholly unintimidating stance of the Jaymi.
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    Haven
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't think anyone is implying that race, culture, and ethnicity should be all lumped into the same category. It just so happens that those things tend to come hand in hand. The discussion here is about expanding racial lore (origin stories, pretty much) in addition to breathing more life and culture into NPC settlements to make them something more beyond just stock towns and villages that have next to nothing behind them.

    I think the whole point is being able to offer more for players to draw from in creating back stories and histories and culture for their characters that fits into the existing world instead of blindly making stuff up and finding out later that what they've run with the whole time runs contrary to what actually exists.
    AnteheZailaCaolan
  • AnteheAntehe Member, Immortal Posts: 371 Immortal
    The purpose of this thread and development is pretty well summarized in what Phoenecia has said.

    I would also like to draw attention to this important point from the rather short first post:
    Tiur said:


    Additionally, have you seen other players do something really solid with their racial RP that you think should get more of a spotlight/be taken under consideration as canon? Keep in mind this is not a guarantee nor right.

    If you, or your peers, feel someone is making well-grounded and reasonable, interesting lore considering these gaps, those things should be posted here so that we, the volunteers working on this, can take it into consideration. If it isn't on our radar, we have no reasonable way to hunt it out.
  • VyxsisVyxsis VyxsisMember Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    Phoenecia said:

    I don't think anyone is implying that race, culture, and ethnicity should be all lumped into the same category.

    ok great
    Phoenecia said:

    It just so happens that those things tend to come hand in hand.

    this was exactly what i was saying is not the case, and i coulda sworn one sentence ago you said we weren't doing this?
    Phoenecia said:

    The discussion here is about expanding racial lore (origin stories, pretty much) in addition to breathing more life and culture into NPC settlements to make them something more beyond just stock towns and villages that have next to nothing behind them.

    I think the whole point is being able to offer more for players to draw from in creating back stories and histories and culture for their characters that fits into the existing world instead of blindly making stuff up and finding out later that what they've run with the whole time runs contrary to what actually exists.

    look, though, my issue isn't that i don't understand what the discussion is about. i'm giving my opinion that "expanding racial lore" by gluing race/culture/etc together isn't good for the game or for the world at large. to be more blunt, i guess, SFF genres tend towards essentialist 'race realism' - which, to be blunt once more, is a racist way of conceptualizing race - and my impression is that aetolia has embraced and is planning to continue embracing this conceptualization by "expanding racial lore".

    maybe y'all disagree or don't see the big deal or don't even understand what i'm talking about or whatever, but at least do me the courtesy of not assuming i'm out here in left field talking gibberish at a volleyball or something.
    Antehe said:

    I would also like to draw attention to this important point from the rather short first post:

    Tiur said:


    Additionally, have you seen other players do something really solid with their racial RP that you think should get more of a spotlight/be taken under consideration as canon? Keep in mind this is not a guarantee nor right.

    If you, or your peers, feel someone is making well-grounded and reasonable, interesting lore considering these gaps, those things should be posted here so that we, the volunteers working on this, can take it into consideration. If it isn't on our radar, we have no reasonable way to hunt it out.
    yes, i read that. as you said, the first post is rather short. however, as i continued reading the thread, it became clear that there've been times when folks' "well-grounded and reasonable, interesting lore" got singularity-bombed - not because they'd come up with something "contrary to what actually exists" (since nothing exists or existed at the time) but because... well, i don't want to assume motivations or anything. it happened, is my point, and i was expressing my feelings about the possibility of it happening again.

    i'm also less-than-thrilled by the way the onus is being put on players to bring things to admin/volunteer attention. while i don't expect (and would find it super creepy tbh) that y'all monitor and keep notes on all my or anyone else's RP, i do think there are some things that could be done beyond making a forum post that folks may or may not see. this game's player-base is really pretty small, and some of the races whose lore is not well-established or documented are played by an even tinier percentage of us, so there's a pretty small handful of active Horkval players. ("handful" might be generous, too.) it's hard for me to believe admin either don't know or couldn't easily find out who we are. seems to me this puts you in a position from which to easily find out what we've done through a variety of methods. instead, my impression from the OP and your reiteration here is that we're the ones who have to do this work - on top of the work we've already done of establishing lore where none existed or was available - and even then, it may be ignored. this doesn't inspire feelings of goodwill in me, and i think examples in this thread of people having their RP steamrolled by inattentive admin/volunteers should more than justify my concern. there were gaps, and we filled them. if what we do matters and there's a drive to canonize (which, tbh, i don't really understand the need for), i'd think you should be canonizing player-created lore. right now, it seems like we're being told "we might take it into consideration, maybe". if things i do in-game ultimately don't matter because somebody who's not paying attention to or knowingly disregards what's happening in-game decides "well, it's X now"... why am i bothering? why have i bothered? why not just read a book?

    this has been my $5 of opinion, i guess. do with it what you will.
    You ease yourself out of the Tiger stance.
    You sink back into the menacing stance of the Scorpion.
    Jaymi sinks into the wholly unintimidating stance of the Jaymi.
    (Tells): From afar, Mephistoles hisses harshly to you, "Hey baby, show me your ovipositor?"
    KasimirHaven
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