Sanguis Revamp

OleisOleis Producer EmeritusMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
Many of you have noticed that we have once again declined to implement the approved reports for non-Rituos Praenomen in this liaison round. I wanted to go ahead and reassure you that we're not spurning vampires by sharing some details of our mechanical revamp of the Sanguis skill.

The two essential aspects of Praenomen combat will be the minion and Frenzy, though Swordplay does remain an option for supplemental affliction. Rather than adhering to the same few minion types, vampires will now be able to resurrect a wide variety of Aetolia's mobs for use as violent pets. By using empowerment abilities to strengthen and modify their next frenzy and similar mechanics to empower the minion's next attack, Praenomen will wield very flexible, easily modifiable offenses. For additional strategic choices, mutate the minion itself into one of several awful visages to change their default attacks, too. Two new afflictions and a gruesome finisher-style ability will expand kill-route flexibility.

I'm really excited about our possibilities here. @Valdus (with help from @Razmael and all our volunteers) has designed a great set of abilities. I'll be finishing the implementation pretty soon, and I'll be sure to update you all when we send it for a quick test and balance session. Feel free to ask your questions here, but please understand that I won't be getting into numbers just yet. A lot can change in a short period of time.
You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
[---]
"^," Slyphe agrees with you.
DraimanIshinHavenLimMalokSatomi
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Comments

  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh god, I kinda wish you would of just implemented the changes instead of warning me. I'm freaking out right now with both fear and joy.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    AshmerIshin
  • SerriceSerrice the Black Fox Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure it'll turn out great. Valdus and the team redid Carnifex and Sentinel, and I'm particularly pleased with how those turned out.
     
    AldricAshmer
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    One question has arisen -- Unlike the Hematurgy rework, which was a dramatic change for existing Bloodborn, Sanguis users are unlikely to notice a huge difference in the way they mechanically engage the skill. Most of the minion commands are staying the same, syntax will remain similar, etc. What we're aiming for is a layer of new abilities and features to change your strategic choices and options. Those of you with existing Sanguis offenses will indeed change many things about how you approach killing with the class, but it shouldn't feel foreign to you.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    DraimanIshinSatomi
  • AldricAldric Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A few reports were made, as well as a slough of discussion in regards to the concept of Sanguis being the sole skill that engulfs Sire/Childe interaction (blood monitor, blood vision, etc.) and the idea of perhaps merging that into Corpus, or making it something inherent to the Vampire subrace. Will this revamp be addressing this in any capacity, or will those skills be remaining within Sanguis beside the newer ones?
    image
    Feelings, sensations that you thought were dead. No squealin' remember, that it's all in your head.
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    It's something I'm open to but haven't done yet. I promised aspects of it in the Hematurgy revamp and failed to deliver, so it's definitely been on my mind. We'll look at a division between those two options (Corpus and innate) and make decisions for each component before this thing is over with.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    Aldric
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are specializations staying/being changed with the revamp?
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is my expression of raw tear-jerking joy at this and my shameless plug to have Masquerade be an innate ability. Please let me Masquerade again. <3

    Also, seconding @Serrice. Sentinel and Carnifex both turned out EXTREMELY well, and the rework of Sciomancer and Ascendril by @Keroc looks top-notch from what I've seen so far. Really really impressed and pleased overall and very excited for this.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sweet, now Draiman won't quit Aetolia and I can listen to his salty rage on Oasis even more.

    YESSSSSSSS
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    DraimanLimKerocDrahkuna
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher Member Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Draiman only takes naps from Aetolia. Nobody quits, NOBODY!
    image
    DraimanDrahkuna
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ishin said:

    Sweet, now Draiman won't quit Aetolia and I can listen to his salty rage on Oasis even more.

    YESSSSSSSS

    Pls, if my class doesn't blow after this I'm going to wreck your face. First thing.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    Ishin
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    Draiman said:

    Are specializations staying/being changed with the revamp?

    The details of their benefits and shortcomings might change, but their general structure will remain.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
  • SakylSakyl Member Posts: 92 ✭✭
    are the pets still gonna be temporary, even after mutations are applied? Or are they going to become akin to the Teradrim Golems?
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The addition of new afflictions concerns me. Are these going to be straight-up new afflictions, rendering older systems incapable? That's going to be frustrating if so.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    They're giving us back Black Bile! :D
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • RiluoRiluo The DoctorMember Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    The new main affliction we are getting is akin to retribution!








    >.>

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oasys is free, and either Riluo is a liar (<3 Ril) or the new first aid is a lot better than what everyone is assuming it is.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    RiluoIshin
  • MalokMalok Member Posts: 529 ✭✭✭✭
    I must say, I'm extremely happy at this news. I've wanted something like this for years and years now. I hope it turns out well, and I hope the existing problems that plague the skillset don't translate over into the new stuff. I have faith, though.
    "Hell hath no hold on a warrior’s mind, see how the snow has made each of us blind. Vibrant colors spray from new dead, staining the earth such a beautiful red."
  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    When you "pretty soon" is that like the next 2 months kinda time frame or is this the Soon TM kinda time frame? Because its fairly vague.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    Malok
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    Draiman said:

    Oasys is free, and either Riluo is a liar (<3 Ril) or the new first aid is a lot better than what everyone is assuming it is.</p>

    Requiring people to constantly switch systems (and game clients) isn't a good way to sustain interest in PK. Systems aren't made by Aetolia, and there's no guarantee they will remain updated. Implementing things like new afflictions, however, can mean that people need to get new ones to remain competitive, which gets tiring. Until first-aid is buffed enough to truly be competitive with a system, first-aid is a throwaway answer. This is why I'm asking, to try to gauge what sort of thing new afflictions means. Are they going to be brand new things which change curing logic, or secondary things which proc off a combo of effects, for example.

    More in general, Aetolia has seen affliction bloat over the years. More afflictions means combat is harder to learn (yes, that's a simplified statement, but I don't want to turn this into an essay). I know this revamp only mentions two, but it shows that design trend is continuing.

    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
    Malok
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    Moirean said:
    Oasys is free, and either Riluo is a liar (<3 Ril) or the new first aid is a lot better than what everyone is assuming it is.
    Requiring people to constantly switch systems (and game clients) isn't a good way to sustain interest in PK. Systems aren't made by Aetolia, and there's no guarantee they will remain updated. Implementing things like new afflictions, however, can mean that people need to get new ones to remain competitive, which gets tiring. Until first-aid is buffed enough to truly be competitive with a system, first-aid is a throwaway answer. This is why I'm asking, to try to gauge what sort of thing new afflictions means. Are they going to be brand new things which change curing logic, or secondary things which proc off a combo of effects, for example. More in general, Aetolia has seen affliction bloat over the years. More afflictions means combat is harder to learn (yes, that's a simplified statement, but I don't want to turn this into an essay). I know this revamp only mentions two, but it shows that design trend is continuing.
    Do you have firsthand experience with the new first aid? I would really love to get your feedback in a message or separate thread so we can work on it!
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
    AshmerDraiman
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    I wasn't being sarcastic or trying to just throw an answer out there. I really mean that Riluo has used first aid to beat Lim and Ashmer both (or he's a giant liar like I also said). With an offense he claims is on his phone. I don't have any idea how strong first aid really is since the changes, but they did just do a bunch of work to it and I haven't heard of anyone but Riluo actually use it.

    Edit: Ninja'd by Oleis
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Multiple people have said there's still a delay in input before it'll cure stuff. Is this information inaccurate?
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • RiluoRiluo The DoctorMember Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    I use firstaid a lot currently at work and it is not too bad. I have even shown it to be useable to a point in my skill range. Is it a bit slow and clunky. Hell yes. Although I do fine against other mid-tier people with a bit of shielding. Once I go up against top-tier like (Lim /Ashmer etc) its useless so I just added a few basic things like attacks, a purify button and secondary messages for limp veins, paralysis and parry. It keeps me alive for a few moments if I get ahead.

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So how about that Sanguis revamp.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    DraimanRiluoMalok
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think overall design choices are fair game for discussion, as those have impact on combat as a whole. I seem to be in a minority, however, so I'll leave this thread alone.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • PypoPypo Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited February 2015
    I have to ask because so far, I have been excited by the wonderful synergy Carnifex and Teradrim were given with using pets to aid them in hunting. I would love to know Oleis, will vampire pets be given any means of hunting uses in tandem with most pet classes are going?

    Carnifex hounds are really well handled! I can't think of it getting any better with their openings and interceptions on TOP of the breeding gives so many combinations of unique hounds its just been so much fun!

    Teradrim's golem functions for both taking blows while fight with us, added on highly modifiable defenses to protect and aid their master.

    I am very excited about the few dropped hints! An as we know, currently vampire pets absorb a tremendous amount of damage from a vampire, I'm curious if there will be more unique iconic skills and/or passive benefits that give some contributions to pvp and pve?

    ((edited to adjust some my translator spanglish >.<))
    Malok
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You mentioned 2 new afflictions, but is that all we're getting, or are any more being added from the existing pool of afflictions Aetolia supports?

    Will the minions attacks be on a passive timer like they are now or something more akin to how hounds work for Carnifex?

    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



  • MalokMalok Member Posts: 529 ✭✭✭✭
    I wrote a thing up this last liaison before I deleted it and went with someone else's writings that sounds very similar to what this sounds like. The idea of having different uses for different Sanguis pets, etc. I really like the idea, and I'm glad it sounds like they're expanding upon what I had thought. Personally, I hope I can animate one of the Xorani from Xaanhal and smash people with damage. I'm a simple creature, though.

    Really, at this point, Sanguis can't get very much worse, so any sort of revamp will truly be a godsend.
    "Hell hath no hold on a warrior’s mind, see how the snow has made each of us blind. Vibrant colors spray from new dead, staining the earth such a beautiful red."
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Valdus I know you said you didn't want to make people too excited but this is so many cool unicorns:

    image

    I'm so friggin' excited.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    IshinRiluo
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