Classlead frustrations.

Iazamat · January 2020

Thanks, Church, for the answer. I mean that.

For the record, I have absolutely no stake in gyrfalcon. I don't care if it's nerfed or remains as is. I don't care if it's deleted or remains as is. I didn't even comment on the gyrfalcon report, because it's a report aimed mostly at 1v1, something I cannot responsibly comment on in the context of classleads because I myself do not 1v1. I have no reason to be strung out about anything gyrfalcon as it stands, so seeing the reaction to my question about decisions was upsetting, but I'm glad we've reached a better point now.

Bulrok · January 2020

Would like to echo the thank you to @Church. But at this point, the thread has run its course for me. If I didn't know how to properly state my frustrations in a mature manner, then I sure as hell do not know how to state my frustration at people liberally reading what I thought was a mostly mature post in an aggressive tone. I realize that my own general salt levels played a part in that, and I'll take as much as that blame as I'm responsible for, but it is not my fault entirely and I refuse to accept the entirety of that.

For the record? Whenever I'm lashing out and being aggressive, I don't have the tact others have, and I prefer a much more direct approach rather than twisting words and being shady. There is a recorded history of my temper tantrums on these forums. If you were new to the forums and read them you'd think I had a unicorn fetish. That's when I'm being aggressive.

Aloli · January 2020

I am only posting on this thread due to its title. I am also sure quite a few people including friends and fr-enemies might or will disagree with my opinion, and that's alright. Treat what I'm about to say as food for thought.

I have a rather high-level perspective on classleads and after being stung the last round, I have a few questions that don't necessarily need to be answered.

Class leads rile up people every season, not in a good way At All. I've been playing for a couple of years now but I've only just started paying attention to this and I feel it is about as bad, if not even more than, Aetolian politics.

I understand this system is better than it used to be when there were liaisons because of having specific people shoulder that kind of burden was not healthy. However, now, when admins choose to reveal certain data on these reports that should absolutely remain hidden, we end up with situations where classleads create a lot of heartache, people start to point fingers, they get their feelings hurt over votes and rejections, and hold up proverbial pitchforks, and friends become enemies. The stress becomes too much that people start to wonder why they're doing this to themselves every round or quite simply, they stop participating.

Will the classes ever be good enough, balanced enough? Will they forever need to be tweaked and nerfed or buffed?

I believe classleads should not be held so often. Maybe once a year, if needed, and corrections or bugs should be done whenever they are happening with attention given to every situation, not just certain arenas.

I also strongly believe and request that votes and comments are never revealed, only the final decisions and an explanation why the decision was made without hinting at votes or comments made. The decision is the responsibility of the decision maker(s), it should remain there. This would be healthier for the community.

I apologize if anyone disagrees with my opinion, I simply see what is happening around me and it hurts me to see. There are very smart and good people on Both sides of this game, let there also be kindness.

Bulrok · January 2020

Forced kindness isn't really kindness. Hiding the existence of salt and hurt feelings does not make either go away.

Seurimas · January 2020

Throwing salt around willy nilly usually only creates more salt, though. Everyone ought to aim to be a little understanding and tactful or it just spirals out of control.

Iazamat · January 2020

In my experience, especially with Aetolia, people tend to see salt where there isn't any or they read anger into what is only passion. I've seen many, many examples of people misattributing blame, anger/salt, and accusatory tones where none were meant to be found - this thread is an example of just that, as we've seen. You can't solve that by hiding away criticisms and opinions, it's something each individual person has to work on on their own, often by being called out for their behaviour.

Just my two cents.

Drystin · January 2020

Being someone who gives no fucks at all for tethers and has what I would say are good friends on both sides, I'll say I've seen the ugly side of both tethers. One thing that absolutely disgusts me is the very deeply rooted cliques that exist to the point where I can accurately predict who is going to like/agree comments based on who the poster is, often times regardless of the contents of the post.

People will do what people will do I guess, but the whole game would benefit from everyone just getting a thicker skin. It's really not that hard to be nice to people you disagree with, that's kinda an essential life skill anyway. We can have all the hatred we want for each other in character, but the mark of a good role player is being able to separate your character's feelings from your own.

Just my opinion.

Aishia · January 2020

Most of us are a lot nicer to each other one on one than we seem to be in any sort of group, especially in situations where we feel ganged up on in one way or another. I do think we should all take more time to reach out to people on the other side out of character, make a few friends, discuss balance on a personal level, hear each other out.

Church · January 2020

Perhaps this could be what the kids call a "hot take," but I actually think classlead submissions should always be open and all remarks should be visible but remain anonymous. Keep the current limit and still only make decisions/changes once per quarter, but having them open at all times would reduce the pervasiveness of a current issue where people avoid using a skill or combination of skills deemed as "broken" just because submissions are open in the hopes that it will be forgotten. Having all comments visible and enforcing a certain standard of behavior in the comments would help keep people honest and encourage use of data rather than rhetoric to argue a point.

Rijetta · January 2020

Yeah, comments open is the right way to go. I'm still burned and still mad by being literally mocked in a Carnifex report last round. Open comments would discourage that kind of unnecessary, inflammatory behavior.

Asugazio · January 2020

I am personally just looking forward to some class crossovers...

"Sparkivist" We make mutagens out of our chest parasites.
"The Seluno Fusion dance between Huwald, Roan and Yamcha" (Who dies in this episode...RIP)
"Outdoorani" - as coined by @Aishia some time ago
"Reee-lot" - The chain-wielding salt farm
"The resurrection of the dark themed Luminary that was an april fools joke like a decade ago" EVENINGSTARS WHAT!?

Honestly though, PLS.

Tiur · January 2020

Not the place for mirror class discussion! x_x

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