Monuments and Enemy Statuses (YES ANOTHER)

Areka

Warning: This is NOT a thread about whether or not there should be blanket enemy statuses. That is NOT what should be discussed.

There's been some discussion lately about monuments and the attributes research gives them, and how impossible it is to deal with it. Holy wars are flawed and able to be surrendered before monuments can be touched, and especially WITH the blanket enemy status policies, people are left unable to run from mobs or just get from A to B without issue. 

For reference:

Monuments that belong to a God upon your city's advisory will grant the following bonuses to citizens in the area:

 - Endurance regeneration

 - Willpower regeneration

 - Non-hostile shrine powers for the God the monument belongs to become area wide.

Enemies to your city who are in an area that has a monument to a God upon your city's advisory suffer the following negative effects:

 - Reduced endurance regeneration

 - Reduced willpower regeneration

 - Decreased movement

 - Small chance that creatures and denizens in the room will turn aggressive upon them.

SOME THOUGHTS:

 - Adjust when Monuments can be attacked. 

 - Have the abilities able to be turned on or off, and when on, drain ylem to keep it running (like shrine watch abilities).

 -- Have Monuments be able to be attacked when they are 'on'. 

 - Have different stages of enemy standing (I think this would be useful in multiple ways)

- Level 1 branding: simply unwelcome in the city, guards tell you to get out and will alert the city that an undesirable has entered (maybe after a certain time, would escort you out or plop you in jail unless you do something aggro (at which point they attack you)).

- Level 2 branding: The 'actively did something naughty' list - monuments would effect you, something of moderte degree where you're not the worst of the worst but you've become enough of a pest to warrant some activity. 

- Level 3 branding: The "kill on sight" list, dese some bad mofos - guards attack and call out, monuments effect you even more, more of what branding is now. 

Any ideas on how to find common ground between the intention of the system, the current RP climate, and provide more ways to address the issues?

Xenia

I don't really have anything new to add to this discussion other than to voice my opinion that I do really like the suggested changes, specifically the stages of enemy status. 

Another tweak to the offered suggestions might be that certain affects could be activated on the monument, instead of having it always on/always off, the city could pick and choose what effects were being used. Perhaps the boons are free but the negative effects (specifically movement speed) would be costly. 

Speaking from personal experience as a newer, mid level player, it's extremely frustrating to try and hunt in areas with these monuments. Especially when you're having to rely on hit and running to clear the area.

I'm not one to complain about deaths (I die daily to PK, hunting mistakes, etc.). However, when a game mechanic, such as this, is adding to the deaths, and there doesn't seem to be a way to do something about it (either due to bugs regarding destroying the monuments or being unable to sustain a holy war long enough to remove them), I've found myself getting frustrated and logging out.

I don't think I'm the only newer player that's shared this level of frustration with these things. I sure would like to see some sort of work around! 

Eleanor

The only thing I really have to add is that the movement speed malarkey is bollocks. Having it be something that is turned on temporarily to hobble enemy troops or whatever would be a pretty good change, I think- I'd even be ok with grace not canceling it out when it's on, if it was only a sometimes thing.

Ezalor

Yeah. The movement thing is INSANELY hindering. And having the thing at NoT resulting in Harkal Vance or the shovel merchant or other such super mobs attacking you when you're just travelling along/trying to duel there is so annoying.

On the bright side all the monuments in annoying areas are currently lifer ones and Iosyne's Order can throw their weight around to take them all down (though the 12 day grace period sucks). But if we decided to go grief mode and put up our own monuments in important areas, there wouldn't really be anything lifers could do about it. On the flip side if lifers wanted to really grief they could just keep putting their monuments back up there and troll people into warring every 12 days.

I think the purpose of this change was to promote conflict and Holy Wars and such but maybe we could have it be something a little less annoying.

Areka

Wasn't that just attempted with the one at NoT, but surrender came before the monuments could be taken down?

Ezalor

Oh that was because the monument bugged out and made itself immune to defiling. We had it taken down by the Pools afterwards, the surrender came after I told Benedicto that the monument was being all immortal. Wasn't any foul play or anything.

Although I suppose it is entirely possible to surrender before the monument can be taken down if you want to be a dick.

Draiman

Make surrendering instantly destroy all monuments. >.>

Areka

The issue with that is due to the disparity in order size and what they're made of, is it could become a way to grief as much as the monuments grief right now. 

Draiman

I would like to think that the general populace would take it upon themselves not to grief people just because there's a way to do it. Also, if you put up a monument in a popular place, be prepared to fight over, or don't do it. Not everything that promotes conflict should be essential to every non combatant. So if your order is small or full of non combatants, why put up a monument? There's enough endurance/ willpower regen through tattoos, skills, and racial to where you don't need the monument in Tiyen or Xaan or even Great Rock.


I still hate Monuments, I'm just saying. Making monuments auto destruct upon surrender wouldn't be a bad thing. They're not essential to anyone and the entire point is to cause conflict, so don't throw them up unless you're ready for a Holy War.

Areka

Monuments weren't put up FOR this new system, and monuments cannot be handled - be it raised, or taken down - outside of Holywar. When this change went in with research, we were not given a grace period/opportunity to move them to more strategic/meaningful/less griefy places. 

Draiman

Apologies. I misunderstood. I was under the assumption that the monuments themselves were brand new, not the changes. /noob

Areka

No, they're existing from previous shrine system, and just rolled over into this without an opportunity to change it, so we're kind of stuck between grief and grief. 

Aarbrok

As much as I love running to rez people in Xaanhal and have every wolverine attack me in the mountains on the way there, and giant ants? Learned those were a thing...at least they dont hurt

Plus moving the speed of molasses.  I don't even know what monument is there.

Boo to Monuments!

BOOOO!

Ezalor

Yeah, imagine how annoying the NoT and Tiyen ones are. Heh.

Macavity

or the Fissure!! 

Areka

Well, the wolverines and ants aren't due to monuments, those are just aggro and annoying. 

Angwe

I put the Tiyen ones up in revenge for the Itzatyl/Dolbodi ones. You guys really have a lot of annoying monuments up.

Sarita

I think the ones in areas with lots of aggros are the worst for newer/low level players. That means Tiyen, Morgun, East Itzatl, Scidve, Mannaseh and maybe another one or two that's just escaping me at the moment.

Something else to keep in mind though is that looking at game side breakdowns, most of the life side will only have three sets of monuments to deal with (unless they also manage to get themselves enemied to Spinesreach), while the undeath ones get five (or six if also enemied to Duiran.)

Since a lot of the complaints seem to revolve around the monuments not being affected outside of wars and being placed before the changes, maybe a simple fix would be for each order to decide whether to keep their monuments in place, or if they'd like specific ones removed for the time being. Alternately, there could be an order priv put in similar to deconstruct for shrines which would give the order a chance to remove the monument themselves without too much of a penalty.

Ezalor

Angwe said:

I put the Tiyen ones up in revenge for the Itzatyl/Dolbodi ones. You guys really have a lot of annoying monuments up.

Nothing happens in those areas though. Tiyen is one of the most popular bashing spots in the game.

I mean if you really want to play that game I can go ahead and erect our monuments at NoT, Tiyen, and Xaanhal comfortable in the thought that no lifer Order can hope to touch them in a Holy War. I'd rather not but if you're going to purposely raise monuments in popular places to be annoying...

Damonicus

Know what bites, Dhar's on Ulgani, nothing like getting attacked by the ferryman.

Moirean

Pfft. My alt is enemied to Enorian, Duiran and Spines. Try hunting down minor foci with all of those and no favor for grace. Yeaaaah, I stopped bothering when searching for one in Scidve took literally half an hour.

Missari

Boy our community is the best. I can tell we all just care about each other so much and everyone is so nice.

Teani

I'd really like to see the changes to enemy status @Areka proposes. It would make more sense to have it graded depending on what kind of offense you're charged with.

The hindered movement from monument is really annoying. I also think it's a bit off that you get hindered by a Divine's monument if you've done something offensive to a city. My character, for example, can't really do much to get unenemied to Bloodloch (aside from switching side), meaning she will always be affected by that city's Divine Advisory. She hasn't attacked the city (yet), but the city hinders her anyway, just because.

It would make more sense to be hindered by monuments if you are an enemy to said Divine. Sure, this would still make me frustrated every time I want to search through Western Ithmia for a foci because of Iosyne's monument there, but hey, I think I might have been in a fight at some point that was in some way related to that Order, so it's probably justifiable. At least if I try I might be able to become unenemied there (not sure, but likely more possible than being unenemied to Bloodloch).

Aarbrok

Bow to the monuments of slime, of filth, of putrescence...

BOOO! BOOOOOO!

Amberlea

Reading this thread I am suddenly aware why Enorian enemied me despite going out of my way to be nice to many of their people.

Ezalor

Nah, BL and Enorian both just enemy everyone on the other side of the game.