Quick RP Questions

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  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher Member Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate miley
    image
  • BakhtuhBakhtuh Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    With the Grect event and all, I've been wondering about the grecht in mainland Sapience, the grecht adventurers. Did they all come from the Dehkay plateau? Were they part of some exodus from the Imperium? And would they continue to follow the nel-teac-priest caste system? 
    For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, which we are still just able to endure,
    and we are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us.
    Every angel is terrifying.
    MaghakMoirean
  • MaghakMaghak The heights of Stormcaller CragMember Posts: 255 Immortal
    The mainland Grecht are distinct from their Plateau brethren in several ways. There are a few spoilers in this post that will be accessible IC with the impeding (and long-delayed) release of Arget Massai in the Siroccians.

    • The Plateau grecht tend to be darker or paler, with fewer browns and greys.
    • The caste system (and atrocities by the previous Exarch against the teac) was the impetus for their flight over the Great Dividing Sea, after which they took up living in the Siroccians.
    • The mainland Grecht, with the exception of those under Imperial watch in Arget Efri, do not adhere to the caste system.
    • The teac of the Plateau, especially the teac in the far south of Dehkay, are not as committed to the holy order as the recent envoys imply.

    A lot of this lore is coming out of nowhere for Grecht players and I understand that it might be infringing on some existing backstories. The Plateau is a big place, though, and the Imperium is not a monolithic single culture, or even the only culture of Dehkay - with some exceptions I think every existing story will fit into it. I would be happy to share a small amount of general information on the Plateau if players would like to adjust their backstories accordingly.
    AliceMoireanXeniaBakhtuh
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's ok, there have only been like 4 Grecht, ever, anyways.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • SessizlikSessizlik Muffin Mage Member Posts: 456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm just gonna stick to my background story. I'm sure Sessi's childhood home can be hidden away in the outskirts somewhere. <.<
    image
  • BakhtuhBakhtuh Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Thanks for the info. It doesn't infringe on Bakhtuh's background a lot but it would be interesting to incorporate the holy order and the caste system in Grecht rp. 

    And maybe we'll see more grecht around now that they have an empire and everything. Do the smart thing and turn grecht now before a swarm of batmen and batwomen swoop out of the darkness, conquering Sapience with the power of justice and utility belts.
    For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, which we are still just able to endure,
    and we are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us.
    Every angel is terrifying.
    MoireanMaghakXenia
  • MacianMacian Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    I'd like to hear people's opinions on how far afield an angel's description can get. Angels etc. are, in my opinion, poorly defined in Aetolia's RP. I've seen angels with minor changes, and I think that there have been events where angels are humanoid, but extremely different from normal angels. I also created a ball of light creature for the Luminary entrance, which was approved (think Lantern Archon) and the implication is that it is angelic.

    So what do you think? How much do you think an angel can change from the standard vaguely female humanoid? 

    Can it become more like a knight if someone is a Templar?

    Can it become more feral if someone goes to Duiran (e.g. it starts not wearing clothes and grows horns like every other councilor)? 

    Or, could an angel change so much that it comes to look like a wolf or a bear if someone goes Lycan?


  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel like you can have some pretty big freedom with angel descriptions as long as you're not describing it like...a sort of corrupted creature.

  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's no fallen angels in Aetolia? Not even mobs/mythos/etc? Plenty of them in real life religion so figured there'd be some here too.
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  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2013
    Might wanna be careful what you wish for, cuz, uh...here's some angels for ya. >_>

    http://gothiccharmschool.tumblr.com/post/59228018062/momunofu-calleo-crokel-a-few-unusual

    EDIT: To be a bit more helpful, in regards to angels, I think you can do pretty much whatever you like as the physical appearance of angels can be, uh...pretty creepy and unsettling. Angels are typically depicted as winged humanoids because human form is probably what most mortals would be comfortable interacting with, and the wings themselves are supposed to be symbolic. So if you take that into account, a Luminary angel could be interpreted as a kind of guardian spirit, and would take on a form that the Luminary would find comfortable to interact with. So unless there's any lore that'd contradict that idea, I'd say anything goes.
    Post edited by Phoenecia on
    MoireanHaven
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There was at least one event with a player allowing his angel to be taken or corrupted (Azumi). I never saw the angel after that happened though, so I don't know if it became a mob that the other players got to use, or ICly was somehow recalled by the angel leader guys. Azumi lost the ability to use Spirituality after it happened.
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah the biblical angels (cherubim and seraphim) are kinda creepy as heck to visualize mentally. I like the idea of them taking on a shape that is comforting to the Luminary who summoned them, and I think there's definitely leeway to extend this to even have the angel's form be a reflection of the Luminary. Moi's angel was a cloud of teeny tiny little angels all zipping and zooming about to form a kinda overall nebulous shape. I liked that.

    Somewhat tangentially, it'd be nice to see more lore about angels in general. They seem like a copy/paste relic from early Aetolia/Achaea, and it'd be nice to see more about them now that the game has matured into much more solid lore.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
    AngweTeani
  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosomsMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm quite distraught that I can't find the log - (and folks who ran that event feel free to correct me plox!), but Aetolia angels aren't like RL angels, nor are they really 'beings' so to speak. Templar had a discussion with the Duamvi and it covered part of this, they're kind of like spirit-plane projections drawn to help, rather than like, a golem, which is a physical construct anchored to prime. 
    image
  • IrruelIrruel Member Posts: 670 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2013
    Sarita said:
    There was at least one event with a player allowing his angel to be taken or corrupted (Azumi). I never saw the angel after that happened though, so I don't know if it became a mob that the other players got to use, or ICly was somehow recalled by the angel leader guys. Azumi lost the ability to use Spirituality after it happened.
    ^
    Be a little careful with the rp toward your angel. You can likely get away with your angel being described as fallen, but don't rp abusing/enslaving/betraying your angel because history says the angels will object.


  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's apparently a pretty big no-no to describe your angel in a way that makes it come across as corrupted since the only instances of corrupted angels in the game's history are angels that were then lost to the player who had summoned them. I think they were added to Golgotha's harem or something?

    Daskalos
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Azumi and Sigfried both lost their angels. I -think- Xavin is right about Azumi's being in the Chaos Plane with Golgotha, and last I heard of Sigfried's angel (which became the Nachash and killed a bunch of people, good times ^_^) was that it became something like Galleus's pet and chilled in his temple..
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



  • MacianMacian Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, I definitely remember a couple of people losing their angels due to "corrupting" them. 

    For Macian in particular, I was thinking more of a reflection of his change to Duiran and the Shamans. If he's really focused on the spirits of Dendara, then it makes sense to me that the angel might change to reflect that.
  • AngweAngwe I'm the dog that ate yr birthday cake Bedford, VAMember Posts: 978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Neithan was rocking a tricked-out Shamanic looking angel for awhile.
    image
  • IosyneIosyne the LairMember Posts: 529 Immortal
    Macian said:
    Yeah, I definitely remember a couple of people losing their angels due to "corrupting" them. 

    For Macian in particular, I was thinking more of a reflection of his change to Duiran and the Shamans. If he's really focused on the spirits of Dendara, then it makes sense to me that the angel might change to reflect that.
    Just to clarify (because this has come up a few times in the past), your angel can't be 'fae' or anything implying it's a forest spirit. Angels and Fae creatures come from different planes, and have different origin stories.
    image
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can make it angelic with a naturey twist though, yes?

  • MacianMacian Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Iosyne said:
    Macian said:
    Yeah, I definitely remember a couple of people losing their angels due to "corrupting" them. 

    For Macian in particular, I was thinking more of a reflection of his change to Duiran and the Shamans. If he's really focused on the spirits of Dendara, then it makes sense to me that the angel might change to reflect that.
    Just to clarify (because this has come up a few times in the past), your angel can't be 'fae' or anything implying it's a forest spirit. Angels and Fae creatures come from different planes, and have different origin stories.
    That makes sense.

    I was thinking more along the lines of moderate changes - scales, tails, different wings, or just a switch to more Duiranite traditions (Clothing, war paint etc.).  

    What are your thoughts about going so far as to be like Egyptian deities, with animal heads?


  • RliftRlift SCMember Posts: 12
    I think I'll be taking this back to the roots of the thread, as I'm back, but sort of not sure what to do now... This might not be "quick" as I have to give a little background.

    Rlift's been a Daru for 182/3 IG years. He's been a sec, and has loved the people in the guild since he's become part of them. My system is rather broken (just working enough to let me bash a bit) so the fighting he's done in the past isn't going to be up to par at all, so it'll be hard to be a 'zealot' that way.

    Now due to recent events in the guild, Rlift's gotten a new revelation, at least just for himself because only a few others agree while everyone else is stagnant in their beliefs. While that's a rather zealous RP thing to do, stagnation is something against Daru RP. Rlift feels there is a bigger picture than just "the Light". Yes it's important as a Zealot, but that can't be the ONLY thing as there aren't really any mechanics for it, the game isn't solely polarized Light vs Dark or Life vs Undeath anymore. With the new tethers, there is the Spirit, the Shadow, and true neutral for the first time since I've been playing.

    Rlift sees the Spirit as the inner spark, which he then perceives as the Sparks of Life from the creation mythos, thus making the Daru more in tune with the Rhythm then at any point in the past. This also gives him the opinion that since no Spark was created "evil" or "good", the actions of the Spark are what decides evilness or goodness (subjective of course) thus skills like the syssin abilities that are neutral while they are deceitful and beguiling, can be used for the Light/Life/Spirit side just as the Lycanthrope and monk skills can be used for either side. It's the guilds that align with a side, thus creating a mortal stigma on the skills. The syssin were created as defenders of the Reach, not cold blooded murders or thieves, and are themselves rather zealous.

    I don't want to leave the Daru and Rlift will be zealous in this new belief, but I have a feeling some will say he's lost his way, he's not a zealot, etc. He will continue to serve the guild, and the light, but I just don't think the Daru are faring well, our numbers are low, and it's a very stagnant place at the moment, and that's not ok with Rlift. But to bring about change, it's an uphill battle and I don't know if I really want to put the effort into the guild if it just gets deleted eventually.
  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Member, Guildmaster Posts: 2,066 mod
    The Daru is not currently on the docket to be deleted.  They announced the lycan guilds' deletion and almost a year later they're still here.  That means that IF the Daru WAS going to be deleted, it's still several years out at best.  Don't worry about it yet, @Rlift.  Play the game as you want to, stir up the guild, have fun (I could never argue a good coup).
    RliftPiper
  • RliftRlift SCMember Posts: 12
    @Arbre, Yeah I know it'll take time if they are deleted.

    But last time I spent a lot of time and effort working on something, a change in management destroyed everything I had worked on for 3+ years, and it just unceremoniously ended that line of RP, basically erased it from official history, I tried to continue it with my artie armour and using it as a reminder for Rlift what he was and not to go back down that path, but alas that RP was just deleted as well. That drained me from really wanting to do much else "creative/leadership-ish" especially after I read about the eventual guild deletions being announced.
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hate saying this, but I feel like when announcements about things like guild deletions or other large changes like that get made, it inevitably ends up creeping into the game somehow, even if the players don't intend it. That said, I don't think most changes necessarily invalidate previous lines of RP. The characters' pasts aren't wiped clean; they just have to figure out how they're going to cope with the changes. All that can be very IC. In the meantime, having a character act on the OOC motivation of "this might happen" is just metagaming.
    ArekaRliftIvoln
  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosomsMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just want to note that disagreeing is not the same thing as being stagnant in their beliefs, and sometimes the things you may personally want are not the same thing as what's best for the org, or actually within org roleplay/lore. 
    image
    Rlift
  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Rlift:  When it comes to your RP, do what feels fun, and don't ever let anyone tell you that 'you're doing it wrong' because even org ideals are open to interpretation to a degree. If you're Daru, zealotry can be interpreted in lots of ways. Being willing to let the world burn in order to get rid of the undead. Being intolerant of 'sneaky' abilities such as those held by Syssin. Being willing to do literally whatever it takes to achieve victory for the Light, up to and including making use of Syssin or whatever. Bottom line: Daru are well-intentioned extremists, but how extreme you want to go should be flexible. You're probably going to get some fanatical nutjobs, Blood Knights, and Token Evil Teammates, but I feel that's kind of the point of guilds. Not every member should be identical, but every member, for some reason or another, is there to serve the same purpose, albeit in their own way.

    And if you're worried about investment? Don't be. Like it or not, anything you do could be potentially undone by anybody at any time whether it be due to changes in leadership, bad luck, or paradigm shifts. The challenge is in figuring out just how much work you're willing to put in. You kind of have to go in with the mindset that something might come along and demolish all of the work you've done, but also the mindset that if you DON'T get up and do something, you'll be miserable and won't enjoy logging on to play.
    RliftArbre
  • RliftRlift SCMember Posts: 12
    Sarita said:
    I hate saying this, but I feel like when announcements about things like guild deletions or other large changes like that get made, it inevitably ends up creeping into the game somehow, even if the players don't intend it. That said, I don't think most changes necessarily invalidate previous lines of RP. The characters' pasts aren't wiped clean; they just have to figure out how they're going to cope with the changes. All that can be very IC. In the meantime, having a character act on the OOC motivation of "this might happen" is just metagaming.
    @Sarita, I haven't brought it into game knowingly. I mentioned in a post about possible dissolvement, because we are small and have very few novices, before I knew anything about the announcement of the guild deletions.. I haven't been on the forums in a very long time, didn't even remember they had changed the forums until like last week or so.


    Areka said:
    I just want to note that disagreeing is not the same thing as being stagnant in their beliefs, and sometimes the things you may personally want are not the same thing as what's best for the org, or actually within org roleplay/lore. 
    @Areka, I agree. But when guild RP/lore prevents someone that's a Azudim from joining the guild unless they reincarnate, just because the endgame races were polarized when they were first attained, but now that Dhar is no longer part of Dhaviol, they are a natural part of the cycle again and not naturally generals of Undeath as was previously mentioned in their help file many years ago.

    In my opinion there is no RP in reincarnating as endgame races since you don't instill essence of Life/Death or Transcend Self when you reincarnate... When you reincarnate as an endgame race, I think you should have to return to Tekal and have to redo the choice or something like that to add in the RP element even if it is a game mechanic.

    Also as I said stagnation is against Daru RP, and not seeing something like the above example for how it's changed and become more in line for a proper choice for living and undead alike, is just a bad example to set in RP such as that.
  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosomsMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2013
    There's a few points and inconsistencies in that:
    - Unless it's changed, you can't reincarnate between endgame races unless a god helps you, in which case, there is significant RP involved in making that choice.
    - Yes, the Anti-Azudim stance (as is) may be dated, but Azudim != Syssin, and there are many levels to possible roleplay involved, and what could be involved, both in the lore as well as in guild culture. As an example: Azudim aren't tied to Undeath, but it's a valid stance for the guild to take that they only want Yeleni because they're going to focus upon renewal and life as opposed to death and destruction (and for characters to take that stance. Again, disagreeing != stagnation). 
    - As Phoenecia said, there are many flavours of zealotry - they are all of those valid flavours. You have your flavour, the guild historically has and does have its own, as do its members. Again, disagreeing != stagnation. It's really easy to use that loaded word when changes you want aren't brought in, but that isn't necessarily the case (at least in regards to those wants). 

    Edit: As for the Syssin issue, there are arguments for and against  - using any means necessary zealot, or Light zealot only wanting Spirit-pure skills, etc. There are lots of flavours and that can be a really interesting discussion to have.

    Stagnation is against Daru RP, but not all of these things are the same. The guild isn't stagnant because they don't let in Syssin. The guild's had a long struggle and ebb and flow with activity, active guild culture, active presence in other orgs, public vs private RP, flexibility to allow various stances, willingness to challenge itself, and maintaining active leaders that will engage the community. There are larger, root issues that need to be addressed there. 

    I suppose my main point is that there are a lot of things tangled up in this, and you can't just bundle it all together and wash it away with (and mis-appropriate) the stagnation trump card when it is more involved than that. 
    image
    Piper
  • IrruelIrruel Member Posts: 670 ✭✭✭✭
    A few things:

    1. Someone said this already, but you mentioned it a couple more times anyway: the guild isn't on the list for deletion (so why are you concerned about it?)
    2. When doing things for your guild to fix/improve/change/grow them, it shouldn't be a chore. You'll probably never reach that utopian endpoint anyway, so if you're not going to enjoy the journey, find something else to do instead.  (i.e. this game is your free time. Enjoy it or why play?)
    3. All you need to do to lead well, is to do fun and/or dramatic things that includes other people. (i.e. just as player-coaches in sport almost never works, side-line coaching (GMs) in Aetolia almost never works)

    And for a useful little tip, or tool, if you're struggling to get people to express an opinion, or if people are struggling to come to the same opinion, then one way to stir up talk and put them on the road to unity is to say something controversial that you know everyone will oppose. It'll give you a platform to launch from later on.

    Arbre
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