PK and clans

Arbre

This discussion was created from comments split from: Ankyrean Anguish - Aetolia-based RAGE.

Xavin

Apparently it's cool to go after people who pull you out of phase in a city you're enemied to, and to use real-life months old org versus org conflicts as a reason to go after people who have nothing to do with you.

Calipso

Wow information really does travel fast here.

Calipso

Xavin said:

Apparently it's cool to go after people who pull you out of phase in a city you're enemied to, and to use real-life months old org versus org conflicts as a reason to go after people who have nothing to do with you.

I one time got PK'd for suggesting to someone that has a shout of croaking, that it sounds like a frog. Another time for saying an insult about someone to someone else and that person heard and so went to claim cause for it. Another time I had someone claiming cause for using the term "dunce".

Time to grow that chest-hair out.

Arbre

This isn't the environment we're trying to foster in the game.

Calipso

Arbre said:

This isn't the environment we're trying to foster in the game.

I wish that was true, but it is there and people are turning a blind-eye to it.

Edit: As an old friend of mine once said, if you want to see something change, then you gotta get your hands dirty and show them the problem.

Illikaal

Calipso said:

Xavin said:

Apparently it's cool to go after people who pull you out of phase in a city you're enemied to, and to use real-life months old org versus org conflicts as a reason to go after people who have nothing to do with you.

I one time got PK'd for suggesting to someone that has a shout of croaking, that it sounds like a frog. Another time for saying an insult about someone to someone else and that person heard and so went to claim cause for it. Another time I had someone claiming cause for using the term "dunce".

Time to grow that chest-hair out.

P sure it was for one of two things: You having a bounty, or you having a bounty. But then again, in your mind, Duiran griefed you repeatedly for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I also recall you filing a lot of issues that all got dropped, so lets not try and play the 'poor me' game. You've already rapidly built yourself a reputation of doing things to rightfully give someone reasonable cause to PK you, then act surprised when they actually do it.

Edit: Behave!

Moirean

Nearly every time someone gets PKd for minor/petty reasons, it is because the person has built up enough antipathy that the killers were just looking for an excuse so they can legitimately have PK cause. A newbie making a joke about Illidan's shout isn't going to just be ganked. A newbie who had already proven themselves to be a complete headache? That's another story.

Calipso

Illidan said:

Calipso said:

Xavin said:

Apparently it's cool to go after people who pull you out of phase in a city you're enemied to, and to use real-life months old org versus org conflicts as a reason to go after people who have nothing to do with you.

I one time got PK'd for suggesting to someone that has a shout of croaking, that it sounds like a frog. Another time for saying an insult about someone to someone else and that person heard and so went to claim cause for it. Another time I had someone claiming cause for using the term "dunce".

Time to grow that chest-hair out.

P sure it was for one of two things: You having a bounty, or you having a bounty. But then again, in your mind, Duiran griefed you repeatedly for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I also recall you filing a lot of issues that all got dropped, so lets not try and play the 'poor me' game. You've already rapidly built yourself a reputation of doing things to rightfully give someone reasonable cause to PK you, then act surprised when they actually do it. I call this the Calipso Effect(tm). 

Actually only 3 issues. One against Exayne for over a month of harassment, and one against you which resulted in you getting peaced, and then another at you for your harassment because of anger over  getting peaced which resulted in that zap if you recall.

Edit: Incoming flagging

Xavin

Our PK environment is sort of treat-others-how-you-want-to-be-treated. Sooooooooo yeah.

Edit: And going after people who -never- participate in conflict or people who might show you some shred of sympathy really doesn't help you.

Azton

Illidan said:

Calipso said:

Xavin said:

Apparently it's cool to go after people who pull you out of phase in a city you're enemied to, and to use real-life months old org versus org conflicts as a reason to go after people who have nothing to do with you.

I one time got PK'd for suggesting to someone that has a shout of croaking, that it sounds like a frog. Another time for saying an insult about someone to someone else and that person heard and so went to claim cause for it. Another time I had someone claiming cause for using the term "dunce".

Time to grow that chest-hair out.

P sure it was for one of two things: You having a bounty, or you having a bounty. But then again, in your mind, Duiran griefed you repeatedly for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I also recall you filing a lot of issues that all got dropped, so lets not try and play the 'poor me' game. You've already rapidly built yourself a reputation of doing things to rightfully give someone reasonable cause to PK you, then act surprised when they actually do it. I call this the Calipso Effect(tm). 

She also enemied everyone to the OOC clan for stupid reasons, I issued myself and I was told I could PK her for it since its an IC situation... So, she brings it on herself really... So unsure why she's complaining when as far as Im aware around 30+ people, have pk on her..


back to rage...

I Rage at Aetolia kicked me over 5 times in under an Hour.. LET ME HUNT DAM YOU!!
:ar!

Illikaal

Plenty of people make (racist) frog jokes about poor old Bashoomba, and have lived to tell the tale. But then they meet her and go "Oh, its a toad." Frogs aren't the only amphibians that croak, you racist bastards. 

Arbre

In any group - and this isn't just in regard to Aetolia, I reference this in religion all of the time - it's the loudest people that get the most attention, and they're generally the ones who don't have the group's best interests at heart.  The -only- way we're going to make this game a less caustic place to play in is to improve our own behavior and try to keep our friends in check.

Desian used to yank me into NoT and have me attack Saiae Yesaile as a novice.
Sanosuke used to attack us for "being vampires in the wilds."
RENEGADE LEGION.

These things changed or the people quit playing because we, as a whole, decided we were not going to put up with this sort of crap.  It's not gone completely, it never will be, but if we as a community work to improve, it'll taper out.

tl;dr just because stuff happens doesn't mean you should do it too.  Three rights make a left.

Calipso

Azton said:

Illidan said:

Calipso said:

Xavin said:

Apparently it's cool to go after people who pull you out of phase in a city you're enemied to, and to use real-life months old org versus org conflicts as a reason to go after people who have nothing to do with you.

I one time got PK'd for suggesting to someone that has a shout of croaking, that it sounds like a frog. Another time for saying an insult about someone to someone else and that person heard and so went to claim cause for it. Another time I had someone claiming cause for using the term "dunce".

Time to grow that chest-hair out.

P sure it was for one of two things: You having a bounty, or you having a bounty. But then again, in your mind, Duiran griefed you repeatedly for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I also recall you filing a lot of issues that all got dropped, so lets not try and play the 'poor me' game. You've already rapidly built yourself a reputation of doing things to rightfully give someone reasonable cause to PK you, then act surprised when they actually do it. I call this the Calipso Effect(tm). 

She also enemied everyone to the OOC clan for stupid reasons, I issued myself and I was told I could PK her for it since its an IC situation... So, she brings it on herself really... So unsure why she's complaining when as far as Im aware around 30+ people, have pk on her..


back to rage...

I Rage at Aetolia kicked me over 5 times in under an Hour.. LET ME HUNT DAM YOU!!
:ar!

And when exactly was the last time I complained that someone is attempting to PK me? Practically half of enorian and Duiran want to, but apparently I have  a knack for "being quick-footed".

I think the last time I actually complained was during the Duiran exterminate/ Order war event, which resulted in someone getting peaced only because they attempted to claim PK during an Order war.

Honestly the fact something as funny as enemying to an OOC clan is what you want to call your cause, then by all means be my guest. Frankly I doubt you'd get the kill, also it'd just show how hilarious the cause system is..again.

Xavin

Here's the thing. There's really no such thing as an OOC clan. Yes, we as players treat clans as OOC all the time, and webs. But the admin generally don't acknowledge OOC clans. Furthermore any enemy status at all is an in-character situation, which leads to in-character reactions.

Really, I'm getting the idea that you still don't understand how pk works in this game.

Azton

Calipso said:

Honestly the fact something as funny as enemying to an OOC clan is what you want to call your cause, then by all means be my guest. Frankly I doubt you'd get the kill, also it'd just show how hilarious the cause system is..again.

"In regards to your Issue with being enemied to a clan: You cannot force OOC interactions, etc on any individual unless all parties involved agree to the OOC nature of something. Therefore, you are within your rights to acknowledge this as an IC action taken against your character."


as I said before, Back to the RAGE

Sessizlik

I think what was mentioned about attitude is quite correct in my eyes. I've played the troublemaker and got my butt handed to me because of it, which usually resulted in butthurt. I admit now that most of the time, it wasn't someone elses fault, but my own. (Though not every time. Some people have just been unicorns.) I have tried to change my attitude with Sessi, but sometimes, my rl short temper flares.

 

For example, during the startfall, I was in a pretty good position up until the last minute, when out of the bushes came a rampaging imp. (<3 @moirean) The event literally ended when I was getting back from the Halls and I lost half of the meteorites and my position for a credit win. I told Moirean how mean it was, feeling that she only targetted me because I was low-level. However, when I got a chance to cool off, I approached her, apologized and gave her some tiny muffins. Since then, I have been getting some pretty awesome rp from her!

 

This change in attitude has made the game more enjoyable for me as a player. I don't get upset like I used to and people are in general nicer too. If you stir trouble, throw around insulting shouts and just get in peoples faces, they will take every chance they get to shut you down. If you try to be productive in a -positive- way and contribute to all-over rp in a -positive- way, people tend to be more lenient, should you make a mistake.

 

My rage? I hate being below lvl80 and I hate hunting.

Haven

Lol, since when does getting enemied = PK cause?

Xavin

Apparently it can for clans? Idk, it's a pretty hard-line cause stance.

Edit: I'm not saying I condone going after the head of an org because you're enemied to that org. That kinda thing is pretty lame and it leads to loops - Player X does a thing to Org Y. Orgleader Z brands X an enemy to Y. Player X then claims cause against Z. Seems rather lame.

Azton

well I Issued myself and that was the reply Admin gave me ^^ ..

She was making people enemies for stuff like "I'm a better griefer then you" or, hmm one I heard was for being married to Illidan and so on and so forth.. so Why cant you?

It's not like its a City, or Guild ..  I think it all boils down to them having legal cause to enemy you.. if they don't then it leaves them open to pk in my eyes..

Xavin

@Azton that....actually, that's entirely reasonable.

Lin

Well it's gotta do something! Really, what is the point of being enemied to a clan?

Haven

Xavin said:

Apparently it can for clans? Idk, it's a pretty hard-line cause stance.

PFFT. I reject that stance 100%.

If someone enemies you, they're acknowledging you as a threat for whatever reason. Maybe no reason at all but they're recognizing you as a threat to them/their organization/ideals/whatever. Until they actually act on that status in some "harmful" way (attack you, bounty you without reason, insult you, etc), you have absolutely no legitimate cause on them. You can, however, choose to play aggressor and attack them anyway but should they choose to attack you back, they are still in the right since you actually attacked them first.

Calipso

Azton said:

well I Issued myself and that was the reply Admin gave me ^^ ..

She was making people enemies for stuff like "I'm a better griefer then you" or, hmm one I heard was for being married to Illidan and so on and so forth.. so Why cant you?

It's not like its a City, or Guild ..  I think it all boils down to them having legal cause to enemy you.. if they don't then it leaves them open to pk in my eyes..

Actually at the time it was all for laughs for the founding of a clan. It isnt as if being enemied to a clan actually does anything, the reactions were funny though. I think Aren had the funniest one when she spammed enemied me to every clan she has the priv to ^^.

Edit: Oh and btw I had unenemied you some time ago, you should look into those records :P. However knowing the PK cause mindsets, you'll still wish to seek your "cause" for having the act of being enemied done in the first place. Like I said I dont mind, go ahead.

Haven

Azton said:

well I Issued myself and that was the reply Admin gave me ^^ ..

She was making people enemies for stuff like "I'm a better griefer then you" or, hmm one I heard was for being married to Illidan and so on and so forth.. so Why cant you?

It's not like its a City, or Guild ..  I think it all boils down to them having legal cause to enemy you.. if they don't then it leaves them open to pk in my eyes..

That's different. You're being insulted. You're PKing cause of the not so subtle insult. Not because the person enemied you.

Azton

but its an OOC Clan and your forcing people to interact oocly since it shows up in IC stuff...

"You cannot force OOC interactions, etc on any individual unless all parties involved agree to the OOC nature of something."

So Funny or not.. its stll dumb...

Macavity

Lin said:

Well it's gotta do something! Really, what is the point of being enemied to a clan?

simple....because no one will give that person power enough in any guild, city, or order to enemy them to that!    :-)

Haven

Azton said:

but its an OOC Clan and your forcing people to interact oocly since it shows up in IC stuff...

"You cannot force OOC interactions, etc on any individual unless all parties involved agree to the OOC nature of something."

So Funny or not.. its stll dumb...

I'm not refuting the fact that you can acknowledge an OOC clan enemying you ICly. I'm against PKing someone just cause they enemied you.

If the reasons are in fact: I'm a better griefer than you. Or you're married to Illidan. etc

You're being insulted. They're implying something is wrong with your significant other and your character takes offense. Valid PK cause. They're implying you're an underhanded person/griefer, your character can take offense. Valid PK cause.

Your cause is then that they insulted you, not the fact that you were simply enemied.

Setne

Sessizlik said:

My rage? I hate being below lvl80 and I hate hunting.

Agree so much with this. It's one of the reason I haven't really been able to login lately. While there are various people I know who have no problem with me tagging along with their bashing (much to Moirean as the main person), those moments when there aren't people who I can go bash with, I just end up afk'ing and then it builds into me not wanting to login for a while.

Nola

I think that fact that she was doing that to begin with is a whole other issue as far as player attitudes in the game goes. 

Does anyone else see how messed up it is to use that priv in something as useless as a clan to enemy someone (the act of enemying isn't whats an issue here, the reasons are..) for offensive, petty things OOCLY towards those characters to MAKE a character/player upset? Just for unicorns and giggles.

Thats like. The most childish thing I've ever heard of/seen in this game to date. I guess thats my rage guys. That this is actually something that takes place to begin with. 

Moirean

It's not the worst thing you can do, sure, but we're not condoning those either. It is an action that breaks down the OOC sense of community that drives Aetolia, and we're doing that self-policing thing to tell you to knock it off. Aetolia really has a brilliant community, and things like this degrade it, and there's no reason for us to act like that - we all play the same game, and we should aim to treat people with respect on the OOC level.