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Haven costs and mechanics
Hello, this thread will be used to share my thoughts upon issues I've found with Haven costs and the mechanic of utilizing one. If any players have any thoughts or ideas or even agree on the manner, than feel free to post below. Mainly I am writing this in an attempt to bring admin attention to the outdated and overly costly mechanics of Havens in hopes they may be rectified.
COSTS:
Currently Havens are overly costly if one simply wishes to design their special little bubble to their tastes.
- Building a room costs 1 Haven point, equal to 25% of leveling or 200,000 gold, then 400k per point for the next five, then 600k for the next five and so on.
- A Haven room name costs 5,000 gold.
- A Haven room description costs 10,000 gold.
- Building an exit to another room costs 10,000 gold.
- Changing the environment of a room in your haven (such as to forest, ocean, etc.) costs 100,000 gold.
...and so forth.
To put it plainly, the prices are murder. If someone wished to only have a 3 room haven, it would cost them: 675,000 gold. This is -without- any features or add-on, meaning doors, locks, enchantment/milking rooms, hidden rooms, environment change etc. So it costs over half a million just to have a small plain place to yourself.
These prices are just unreasonable and too high for anyone, unless they are a goldsink (@Alexina >>), to partake in the experience of customizing their own little location to themselves. The price of building a new room may be understandable, but to simple give it a name costs 5000 gold? To describe it, another 10,000 gold? It is perhaps for this reason we rarely see anyone push their haven beyond the point of 1 or 2 rooms, usually with keeping the default name of "Within the unformed" even.
Let's look at this from another view: Hunting. When Hunting the end level areas, in an hour one can be making around 10,000-12,000 gold (not 100% sure on this). So for every 1:30 hour of constant hunting, and spending no expenses upon anything else, someone can fully describe their first haven room. But what if they want more? If someone wished to add a new room to their haven, that is a full 16 hours of hunting non-stop (Not considering haven points) just to get a new room. So to summarize so far, someone will need to hunt roughly all day long, use no expenses upon anything else (curatives, credits, etc.) and then can add 1 room...this seems very taxing and generally people will use their expenses upon much more dire needs.
Let's consider it from credits! Purchasing a new room, that is around 55c. Add in total of name and describing, that makes around 58c. Doors, exits and locks, 61c. Now let's say that person wants to customize it more with an environment change 84c. Makes the room outdoors or indoors? 85c. So roughly 85 credits total in the end.
So someone is spending 85 credits just to customize a room in their self-make house. Please note that this is without special features like a stable or milking room and such. Those will be listed below.
LIST OF EXPENSES:
Here is a list of expenses with each form of collecting placed near it. (I took credits to be of 3.8k gold per).
Name: Haven point: Gold: Hunting: Credits:
New Room 1 200,000 16h 52
Link Rooms - 10,000 1:30h 3
Hide Exit - 10,000 1:30h 3
Inside/Outside - 10,000 1:30h 3
Environment - 100,000 8h 26
Name Room - 5,000 30-40mins 1.5
Describe Room - 10,000 1:30h 3
Build Door - 1,000 10mins -
Add Lock - 1,000 10mins -
Make Key - 1,000 10mins -
Features:
Obscuring Fog 1 200,000 16h 52
Hidden Room 2 400,000 1d8h 108
Slaughter House 1 200,000 16h 52
Private 2 400,000 1d8h 52
Stable 1 200,000 16h 52
Willpower regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Endurance regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Health regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Mana regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Solid Rock - 500,000 1d9h 111
Milking 8 1,600,000 5d3h 416
Enchantment 8 1,600,000 5d3h 416
Library 1 200,000 16h 52
Forge 4 800,000 2d16h 208
RELATION TO SIMILAR MECHANICS:
Though I know it doesnt like to be brought up, I have to bring up similar concepts in other IRE games. Take Lusternia for example, it has a very similar mechanic to Havens, called Manses. To rename a room in a manse, it costs 1000 gold. To describe it, it costs another 1000 gold. A new room costs 150,000 gold. Making an exit between rooms costs 100 gold. You can also set if others are able to visit your manse or not.
This frankly gives more freedom of expression to the players. I should even mention how gold drops are much more higher there, I wont go into detail with this though.
HAVEN FEATURES:
Much of the Haven features feel out of date and frankly useless. Why would someone want a Health or Mana regeneration room in their haven? It would be great if new features could be added to make Havens more unique, especially the ability for others to visit them. Frankly if the ability for others to be able to visit your havens was set, it would make all the rest of the features much more understandable and helpful.
HOUSES AND THEIR COSTS:
As a note I wish to discuss the concept of the Housing system. Frankly it is absurd to think that players must pay prices that high just in order to have a House. It really is no wonder the playerbase has turned to their Havens to make that their 'homes'. In every other IRE i've had the privileged to play, Houses were -never- a "credits-only" option. Frankly anyone could buy a House.
Some of the prices: (these are divided based on city/npc village/wilderness)
First room/Base package: 250/375/500 credits
Extra rooms: 50/75/100 credits each.
Enchanting Room: 500/750/1000 credits
Environment with Effects: 104/156/208 credits
Graveyard: 150/225/300 credits
and so on and so forth. This doesnt seem like a house at all, if anything it seems like a very big artifact. I know that the Castle/Housing system is out of date, but I am not sure if it was the Admin's intention to make Havens the new housing system (basically since you require level 100, I dont think so). However if this is the only in-place true Housing system, then frankly it is just unfair prices.
As for buildings in cities and renting, I dont consider that housing. It is frankly more for show and doesnt really give privs and powers to the player to customize as they wish, not to mention isnt really private.
My request is simply that the cost of customizing be reduced in either/or Havens or Castles, at the last describing and naming. It feels like im giving an arm or a leg just to make a new room in a haven. Also if something could be done to make the current features more of use. I hope you enjoyed this little report.
Edit: Added in the Housing/Castle system.
COSTS:
Currently Havens are overly costly if one simply wishes to design their special little bubble to their tastes.
- Building a room costs 1 Haven point, equal to 25% of leveling or 200,000 gold, then 400k per point for the next five, then 600k for the next five and so on.
- A Haven room name costs 5,000 gold.
- A Haven room description costs 10,000 gold.
- Building an exit to another room costs 10,000 gold.
- Changing the environment of a room in your haven (such as to forest, ocean, etc.) costs 100,000 gold.
...and so forth.
To put it plainly, the prices are murder. If someone wished to only have a 3 room haven, it would cost them: 675,000 gold. This is -without- any features or add-on, meaning doors, locks, enchantment/milking rooms, hidden rooms, environment change etc. So it costs over half a million just to have a small plain place to yourself.
These prices are just unreasonable and too high for anyone, unless they are a goldsink (@Alexina >>), to partake in the experience of customizing their own little location to themselves. The price of building a new room may be understandable, but to simple give it a name costs 5000 gold? To describe it, another 10,000 gold? It is perhaps for this reason we rarely see anyone push their haven beyond the point of 1 or 2 rooms, usually with keeping the default name of "Within the unformed" even.
Let's look at this from another view: Hunting. When Hunting the end level areas, in an hour one can be making around 10,000-12,000 gold (not 100% sure on this). So for every 1:30 hour of constant hunting, and spending no expenses upon anything else, someone can fully describe their first haven room. But what if they want more? If someone wished to add a new room to their haven, that is a full 16 hours of hunting non-stop (Not considering haven points) just to get a new room. So to summarize so far, someone will need to hunt roughly all day long, use no expenses upon anything else (curatives, credits, etc.) and then can add 1 room...this seems very taxing and generally people will use their expenses upon much more dire needs.
Let's consider it from credits! Purchasing a new room, that is around 55c. Add in total of name and describing, that makes around 58c. Doors, exits and locks, 61c. Now let's say that person wants to customize it more with an environment change 84c. Makes the room outdoors or indoors? 85c. So roughly 85 credits total in the end.
So someone is spending 85 credits just to customize a room in their self-make house. Please note that this is without special features like a stable or milking room and such. Those will be listed below.
LIST OF EXPENSES:
Here is a list of expenses with each form of collecting placed near it. (I took credits to be of 3.8k gold per).
Name: Haven point: Gold: Hunting: Credits:
New Room 1 200,000 16h 52
Link Rooms - 10,000 1:30h 3
Hide Exit - 10,000 1:30h 3
Inside/Outside - 10,000 1:30h 3
Environment - 100,000 8h 26
Name Room - 5,000 30-40mins 1.5
Describe Room - 10,000 1:30h 3
Build Door - 1,000 10mins -
Add Lock - 1,000 10mins -
Make Key - 1,000 10mins -
Features:
Obscuring Fog 1 200,000 16h 52
Hidden Room 2 400,000 1d8h 108
Slaughter House 1 200,000 16h 52
Private 2 400,000 1d8h 52
Stable 1 200,000 16h 52
Willpower regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Endurance regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Health regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Mana regen 3 600,000 2d 160
Solid Rock - 500,000 1d9h 111
Milking 8 1,600,000 5d3h 416
Enchantment 8 1,600,000 5d3h 416
Library 1 200,000 16h 52
Forge 4 800,000 2d16h 208
RELATION TO SIMILAR MECHANICS:
Though I know it doesnt like to be brought up, I have to bring up similar concepts in other IRE games. Take Lusternia for example, it has a very similar mechanic to Havens, called Manses. To rename a room in a manse, it costs 1000 gold. To describe it, it costs another 1000 gold. A new room costs 150,000 gold. Making an exit between rooms costs 100 gold. You can also set if others are able to visit your manse or not.
This frankly gives more freedom of expression to the players. I should even mention how gold drops are much more higher there, I wont go into detail with this though.
HAVEN FEATURES:
Much of the Haven features feel out of date and frankly useless. Why would someone want a Health or Mana regeneration room in their haven? It would be great if new features could be added to make Havens more unique, especially the ability for others to visit them. Frankly if the ability for others to be able to visit your havens was set, it would make all the rest of the features much more understandable and helpful.
HOUSES AND THEIR COSTS:
As a note I wish to discuss the concept of the Housing system. Frankly it is absurd to think that players must pay prices that high just in order to have a House. It really is no wonder the playerbase has turned to their Havens to make that their 'homes'. In every other IRE i've had the privileged to play, Houses were -never- a "credits-only" option. Frankly anyone could buy a House.
Some of the prices: (these are divided based on city/npc village/wilderness)
First room/Base package: 250/375/500 credits
Extra rooms: 50/75/100 credits each.
Enchanting Room: 500/750/1000 credits
Environment with Effects: 104/156/208 credits
Graveyard: 150/225/300 credits
and so on and so forth. This doesnt seem like a house at all, if anything it seems like a very big artifact. I know that the Castle/Housing system is out of date, but I am not sure if it was the Admin's intention to make Havens the new housing system (basically since you require level 100, I dont think so). However if this is the only in-place true Housing system, then frankly it is just unfair prices.
As for buildings in cities and renting, I dont consider that housing. It is frankly more for show and doesnt really give privs and powers to the player to customize as they wish, not to mention isnt really private.
My request is simply that the cost of customizing be reduced in either/or Havens or Castles, at the last describing and naming. It feels like im giving an arm or a leg just to make a new room in a haven. Also if something could be done to make the current features more of use. I hope you enjoyed this little report.
Edit: Added in the Housing/Castle system.
0
Comments
Actually I think I will mention this in the report.
Used Points: 92 Remaining Points: 22
I have no problem with the current haven point costs. Ahem. I would like more options for me to spend my points on though!
Used Points: 118 Remaining Points: 27
@saybre: AMEN
Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
"If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."
Why do I only have one free point? Because I'm adding health/mana/endurance/willpower regen to every room. And everything else I can get my paws on.
If it is the former, then I can understand the high amount gathered, but not all of us love the idea of constantly hunting. Frankly hunting bores the life out of me, and I at times wonder how others can stay at it for so long.
I think a Havens command of Privs could be added. then simply one would do TRAVEL TO <person> HAVEN. Perhaps it should be made that one may only travel to the haven of others (or their own) if they are within the Havens. Would generally make it more reasonable.
In the end, we must ask ourselves: What is a Haven? It is sort of like our own divine creche (imo). Our characters ascended their mortal frames and became something more, albeit not Gods, but "higher beings" could be a good name for it. These "higher beings" have the ability to create a pocket of reality in existence which bends to their will, defining them. I think it really only reasonable if not natural that we have a much easier access to describing and naming, and perhaps the ability to more customize our Havens.
Aetolia's housing system is infinitely better than Achaea's, for example (I really dislike subdivisions, and you still have to pay credits to get rooms, etc). A house is cheaper than a pet, in most cases, and there's plenty of people running around with pets. I am not really sure what you're basing your assessment that housing prices are absurd; if 250-500 credits for a very neat feature is absurd then pretty much all skillsets/pets/artifacts/crafts are absurd, too.
I agree that the gold cost for changing room names/descriptions and linking rooms together is excessive. If you pay for a room with credits, then all these things should be included. Also, the environment effect for houses is the most useless thing ever. Just add it when people change their room's environment in the first place (this wouldn't suddenly create huge combat imbalances or anything). There are a few other things that seem pretty out of date: health regen, enchanting rooms, forges, etcetera are all useless in houses because they are practically free with haven points.
House mobs are amazing.
Edited for spelling.
As far as I understand, you can place house mobs in havens as well. I've certainly seen mobs in havens.
I do wish there was a better way to emphasis what Moirean had posted.