Shaman Logs

Macian

There aren't very many Shaman combatants, and I'm trying to get back into combat.

Please post your logs here so that I (and everyone else) can learn a bit more. I'll post more as I get them.

Macian vs. Rammus: http://nogfx.org/logs/1775 (Attempting to go for Illidan's Omen tactic as outlined in another thread - Partial log because I forgot to start the log)

Alain

Thanks a lot for finally posting one of these, Shaman seems like a really interesting class.

What is the main goal of a Shaman when you fight?  Do you go for Damage-Afflicts, or is there an insta-kill you go for?

Serrice

I'd have killed off the ghast first and then chained shield when you were hit by confusion until you cured it. For spirits, I'd have used the serpent spirit for the extra aff pressure. Hidden lethargy would've thrown off his combos and isn't particularly high on curing prios. 

Ezalor

Serrice said:

I'd have killed off the ghast first and then chained shield when you were hit by confusion until you cured it. For spirits, I'd have used the serpent spirit for the extra aff pressure. Hidden lethargy would've thrown off his combos and isn't particularly high on curing prios. 

Ghast killing AND shield spamming? Serrice stahp!!

Macian

Thanks for the feed back, @serrice.

Not sure what you mean by "chained shield". Just shielding until it was cured? If so, I'll take a shot at that next time. I'm not doing a particularly good job of tracking when I have confusion, so that's why you're seeing so many attacks with such huge eq.

I was also playing around with Greenfoot here, to use consumption to improve offense, so maybe one other option with confusion might be to leave the room and wait for Greenfoot to tick, and then consume to get me back on the offensive quickly.

I normally use the Serpent. I was experimenting in this case - the raven seems to hit at about 6 seconds, whereas the serpent is 9 seconds (4 and 6 with Primeval oath up), so I wanted to see if that extra speed allowed the anxieties to stack up mental affs. Any thoughts on that? Perhaps it's too offensively minded for me right now.

(Serpent appears to be 9 seconds, but hits for lethargy/weariness as well as loki when it does proc a venom attack. Raven is also quite brutal on mana when it hits with anxieties,  about 15% per hit. Raven also seems to hit with anxieties (and mana damage) more often than it attacks for damage, whereas serpent seems to be about 50/50. I ran some tests, but only for about 50 attacks, so my numbers may be off.)

@alain there's a bunch of interesting routes. The damage route relies on Omen, which increases damage and stun radically (something like 13% max hp per affliction) for everyone one of a set of four specific afflictions. Realistically, I'm going for  3 affs, which is a hefty chunk of damage and stun. The instakill route seems viable, with mental affs to make it like death tarot, but I'm mainly focusing on damage right now - as you can see from the log, it's not hard for Rammus to just walk out of the room. I'm guessing that a hybrid route is also viable, where you're using the stun and damage from Omen to set them up for a faster Reclamation (our instakill).

I'll keep posting them when I remember to take logs

Illikaal

To make a long story short, every single familiar is completely useless except the Serpent. Wyvern is probably only good for group combat. Raven is crap because we have 0 mana pressure, and all it gives is anxieties that we can't even discern or mana damage. Cougar is only worth having because it passively gives sensitivity. This is unnecessary because of effusion. Spider only does straight damage or it will web the target. The web is avoidable via web boots. If the target has web boots, tada, spider is useless. Bear is only ever useful if you use the claw fetish. But since the claw fetish is completely useless, thus is the bear. 

Also, don't be afraid to change up your fetishes mid-combat. They cost no balance to do. If your target isn't shield whoring, swap out the bone fetish for an eye fetish. Eye fetish is a lot better than I initially thought it was. You're either going to force them to give you a shit ton of energy, or they're not going to diagnose what could be crucial afflictions. I really wanna go so far as to say it's closet OP. But that's just me. 

Also, if you notice the target likes to run away the second you cast omen on them, you can hide it under blackout. GG.

@Macian I don't ever see you get up to 5 energy, which means you never quickened. The most energy I ever saw you accumulate was 2. Why are you burning up energy so early in the fight unnecessarily?

Macian

@illidan I didn't look over the log completely before I posted it - looking back, it's a much smaller fragment than I thought. I think at this phase of the fight, Rammus had left the room to avoid a fully set up omen (or maybe that was the prior fight, and I was ready for it. Either way) and he ended up moving around a whole lot more than I expected (NB Not a shot at Rammus. See the conversation he and I were having at the end of the log). I was trying things out to hold him down in case I managed to set it up again. That's why you see the Slam + Strangle early on in the log, to try and get stone to fire... I don't think I ever really got my momentum or timing back before I died.

That said, thanks for pointing it out, I didn't realize until you did that I had lost that momentum so badly, and never recovered it.

For Raven, you don't see any value in using anxieties to stop people curing mental affs, and therefore making it harder for them to focus off premonition?

Eye is part of my basic fetish stack (Feather, Shell, Eye) but it's also the one that I switch out first, when I put in stone or bone or whatever else.

It's not visible in this fight, but I'm actually finding Greenfoot to be kind of cool. The Willpower drain destroys me, but I've been using it to move around and consuming prior to the fight, and/or chain quicken stacks together almost back-to-back.

Sweet tip on the Omen and blackout. In the short time I played Lusternia, I whored the hell out of blackout+princess farewell, which was awesome (Well, no, not really. But I thought about it). I'm definitely going to try that one.

I need to do a better job remembering to log when I start fighting.

Macian

Macian vs. Angwe: http://nogfx.org/logs/1776

(Round 2, the first one was a time-out)

Managed to pull off Omen quite well in this one. Definitely need to be more efficient chasing balance and eq though. I fired up a boosted staticburst early in the fight when I saw sunlight allergy stick, to try and get that to hold. 

If anyone's interested, my tracking of premonition, Infest, Blight, and Stormtouched is on a screen to the right, that you can't see in the log. I think I may have infested one too many times, and not finished off the quicken chain properly for this one.

Macian

Another partial. The weirdness from citadel you see at the end there is Mudbot crashing, which it did three times in a row vs. Jayke.

http://nogfx.org/logs/1777

There's one spot where he's a little behind and is stormtouched with premonition up, and I go for Sporulation behind blackout. I perhaps should have gone for Infest and Blight, and tried for a quick Omen. I think I'm partly still treating this as a more traditional class where I have to lock them up before I move for the kill, which just doesn't happen for Shaman.

Macian

Haven vs. Macian: http://nogfx.org/logs/1778

Start of the fight got cut off, but it's not that far into it. I'd just set up the affs for a first attempt at Omen when the log starts.

The other two spars were a loss and a draw. Didn't log those.

Edit: Yes, I was fighting without a tree tattoo. Same for the other spars. Oops.

Haven

A serpent spirit darts forward and sinks its fangs into Haven's leg.
You discern that Haven has been afflicted by the euphorbia venom.

Woah... You're shown what your loki snake delivers?

Kaeus

Yes, since one of the main skills we have that we use to gain energy and start giving some aff pressure also uses Loki, we have a skill (Shaman Spiritsight) that lets us discern which affliction the loki venom delivers.

Macian

Unfortunately it's also the only one that shows. Even if snake didn't have the best affs and hindering (which we're weak on) spiritsight showing what it delivers essentially makes it the only choice.

Arbre

Every time I see this thread I get excited that someone is posting Shaman RP.

Macian

Lol. RP. Luzer.

Macian

Stealing these from the Luminary logs thread, so you can see what it's like to fight against a Shaman:

Macian (Shaman) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4hq6xg5c.html

Macian (Shaman) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4htpmhog.html

Macian (Shaman) vs Haven (Luminary): http://pastehtml.com/view/d4hvsr6i8.html

I believe Red = loss, Yellow = draw, and Green = win.

Haven

Correct.

I'm slowly adding in shaman stuff now!

Macian

Random thought that I'd love some feedback on...

You can see at the end of the second log that Haven dies to my final Stormbolt, which did at least 1467 damage to him. It's this high because of Stormtouched. 

Haven has 5145 max HP, so I'm assuming that Stormbolt is going to do at least 1500 damage to most endgamers, when they're under the influence of Stormtouched (which reduces your electric resistance to 0%).

Given that, I'm considering adding a check that, if I quickassess and find them to be under 1500hp and also afflicted with Stormtouched, I automatically use Stormbolt (or get alerted to use it).

Can anyone think of a situation where this might not take someone out, aside from a few people with less HP?

Haven

Is it premonition that activates stormtouched if I cure two afflictions of the same trees? Or is stormtouched a timed affliction?

Kaeus

No, it is the attuned feather fetish that we string to our Quarterstaff. Stormtouched is caused/cured by curing two herb afflictions with the same cure if a shaman has that fetish attuned to you.

Ezalor

Macian said:

Random thought that I'd love some feedback on...

You can see at the end of the second log that Haven dies to my final Stormbolt, which did at least 1467 damage to him. It's this high because of Stormtouched. 

Haven has 5145 max HP, so I'm assuming that Stormbolt is going to do at least 1500 damage to most endgamers, when they're under the influence of Stormtouched (which reduces your electric resistance to 0%).

Given that, I'm considering adding a check that, if I quickassess and find them to be under 1500hp and also afflicted with Stormtouched, I automatically use Stormbolt (or get alerted to use it).

Can anyone think of a situation where this might not take someone out, aside from a few people with less HP?

Stormbolt does 3k damage to me with stormtouched, soooo...

What I've noticed is most Shamans attempt it after landing a decent Omen for dat spike damage.

Macian

Ezalor said:

Macian said:

Random thought that I'd love some feedback on...

You can see at the end of the second log that Haven dies to my final Stormbolt, which did at least 1467 damage to him. It's this high because of Stormtouched. 

Haven has 5145 max HP, so I'm assuming that Stormbolt is going to do at least 1500 damage to most endgamers, when they're under the influence of Stormtouched (which reduces your electric resistance to 0%).

Given that, I'm considering adding a check that, if I quickassess and find them to be under 1500hp and also afflicted with Stormtouched, I automatically use Stormbolt (or get alerted to use it).

Can anyone think of a situation where this might not take someone out, aside from a few people with less HP?

Stormbolt does 3k damage to me with stormtouched, soooo...

What I've noticed is most Shamans attempt it after landing a decent Omen for dat spike damage.

3k? There has to be something off there. With 5500 max hp and no defs, I take 1614 damage. (17 int - 1634 at 18 int). Unless you're at nearly 10k hp?

For Omen, yes, absolutely, a 3 affliction Omen followed by Stormbolt is the primary focus of the kill route that Illidan explained in his article, which is what I'm trying to follow and get right before I dive into Reclamation etc.

Macian

@haven premonition prevents you from curing Infest and Blight, which are two of the four Omen afflictions that increase the damage and stun.

Ezalor

Macian said:

Ezalor said:

Macian said:

Random thought that I'd love some feedback on...

You can see at the end of the second log that Haven dies to my final Stormbolt, which did at least 1467 damage to him. It's this high because of Stormtouched. 

Haven has 5145 max HP, so I'm assuming that Stormbolt is going to do at least 1500 damage to most endgamers, when they're under the influence of Stormtouched (which reduces your electric resistance to 0%).

Given that, I'm considering adding a check that, if I quickassess and find them to be under 1500hp and also afflicted with Stormtouched, I automatically use Stormbolt (or get alerted to use it).

Can anyone think of a situation where this might not take someone out, aside from a few people with less HP?

Stormbolt does 3k damage to me with stormtouched, soooo...

What I've noticed is most Shamans attempt it after landing a decent Omen for dat spike damage.

3k? There has to be something off there. With 5500 max hp and no defs, I take 1614 damage. (17 int - 1634 at 18 int). Unless you're at nearly 10k hp?

For Omen, yes, absolutely, a 3 affliction Omen followed by Stormbolt is the primary focus of the kill route that Illidan explained in his article, which is what I'm trying to follow and get right before I dive into Reclamation etc.

Most likely scales to maxhp, I have like 7400.

Rammus

It hits you for that much because they time sensitivity with it.

Here's a log of Illidan and I.  Not sure what happened at the end but it was enough for him to capitalize.

http://www.logsty.com/logs/aTFEc

Illikaal

Ezalor said:

Macian said:

Random thought that I'd love some feedback on...

You can see at the end of the second log that Haven dies to my final Stormbolt, which did at least 1467 damage to him. It's this high because of Stormtouched. 

Haven has 5145 max HP, so I'm assuming that Stormbolt is going to do at least 1500 damage to most endgamers, when they're under the influence of Stormtouched (which reduces your electric resistance to 0%).

Given that, I'm considering adding a check that, if I quickassess and find them to be under 1500hp and also afflicted with Stormtouched, I automatically use Stormbolt (or get alerted to use it).

Can anyone think of a situation where this might not take someone out, aside from a few people with less HP?

Stormbolt does 3k damage to me with stormtouched, soooo...

What I've noticed is most Shamans attempt it after landing a decent Omen for dat spike damage.

I'm getting the same figures as Macian. It sure will do 3k to you if you're hit with sensitivity AND stormtouched, but stormtouched on it's own doesn't appear to make my stormbolt hit quite that hard. Then again, I rarely ever stormbolt when my target doesn't have sensitivity. 

Even in @Rammus' log there, he was stormtouched and sensitive when I stormbolted him, and he only got hit for 2200. Since your health is higher than his, I reckon that's where you were getting the numbers from. 

Macian

@Illidan, when you win a fight, are you generally being opportunistic with the application of Infest/Blight alongside Stormtouched, or are they seriously behind and can't cure them?

Also, when are we going to see a Reclamation guide? :P

Illikaal

In Rammus' case, he screwed himself by diagnosing repeatedly. If a target spams diagnose, you virtually have infinite energy. Infinite energy = being able to boost every ability, if not, get up to 5 energy so you can quicken super fast. Still, just boosting staticburst, overload, then sporulation was all that was required to keep premonition stuck on him. When i'm fighting, I usually tag them with infest and blight, and then worry about keeping premonition on them as long as possible. You don't have to worry about infest/blight at all as long as they have premonition, and it's very easy to stick on them if you're boosting sporulation (3 mental affs) and staticburst (another 3 mental affs). Since premonition is at the absolute bottom of the focus tree, you just gotta keep pushing those mental affs. It's never really a matter of 'being behind' on cures, because frankly, Shaman affs don't really do much in terms of putting you in danger of being vlocked, etc.

I guess the short answer is....yeah, sorta being opportunistic with infest/blight alongside stormtouched, but they also can't cure the first two because of premonition. 

You'll also find the reclamation guide whenever I stop being lazy and finish up the Shaman group combat guide. I initially put it on hold because I wanted more data, but I have it all now. I just have to get around to finishing that, then I'll get to reclamation. 

Macian

Thanks @illidan - that makes sense.