Brewing, Crafting and Liquids

TokTok Member Posts: 29
edited May 2013 in Harpy's Head Tavern
You all gave such great feedback after my initial release last week that I was compelled to go back over and do a better job, a job that took the concerns and desires of the playerbase into account. In a decision with slightly more forethought, I’m going to be posting here to get your impressions now, so my initial release of this project is spot on. Here are the proposed changes for my upcoming Brewing, Crafting and Liquids patch:
  • Brewing will be integrated into the current Design system. 
  • In addition to this, it will have the follow attributes added: extended description, which will allow players to LOOK AT <liquid> IN <container>; aftertaste, which will send a message to the player at a specific interval after they have drunk the beverage (optional); brewing tool, such as pot, pitcher, etc (more found below), can be supplied, or the default (pot) will be used; and heat source, which is optional, but suggested for liquids such as a hot toddy.
  • We’ll be removing the last1p/3p and drink1p/3p attributes, their use being merged into ‘taste’ which will be appended to every drink message, appearing something like this: You quaff down $(description$) from $(container$). $(taste$).
  • For beverages only, the current ‘taste’ command will operate identical to the ‘sip’ command, consuming part of the beverage.
  • Various drink commands, along with having unique messages, will consume varying amounts of a drink--this feature will be enabled for alcohol and drinks only. Other types, such as salves and poisons and elixirs, won’t be affected. A nonexhaustive list of these drink commands is: sip, taste, drink, chug, quaff, gulp, swig, imbibe, guzzle, swig. I’m taking suggestions on the messages for these, as well as the quantity they should consume.
  • Similar to GIVE/TAKE and others, all the drink commands will become operational within the verbmote system, such that ‘drink beer [chugs down $thing as if he was at a phrat party.] will be possible--but please don’t.
  • All design rules that can be enforced in the code, will be. 
  • A tagging system will be added to all designs, following the simple syntax: DESIGN <#> TAG <word>. The DESIGN LIST command will be expanded to take tags as a search attribute such that DESIGN LIST TAGS <tag list> will be possible. Additionally, the command DESIGN COMMS <tag> will be added, sorting through all approved designs of a particular tag, displaying them, what they require to be made, along with a ‘total’ field down the very bottom. While we will need to limit how many tags a design can have, a number is yet to be decided on.
  • I’m aware brewing is finicky, excess comms or varying amounts often producing unexpected results. In all ways possible this will be streamlined, such that BREW <design #> will produce as much of the liquid in question as possible, while destroying excess items in a way that has no negative impact on the output. If you miscalculated, why be punished twice?
  • All liquid containers will have sizes added to them, such that shotglasses will hold two sips, while vials will hold the standard 50. We’ll compile a list of these containers internally and try to apply appropriate values.
  • In terms of transferring liquids between items, the following commands will be added: POUR [<x>] <liquid/container> INTO <liquid/container>. EMPTY <liquid/container>.
  • A list of items will need to be compiled that -can’t- use the previous commands. Such a list will include the following, at the very least: artifacts, eggnog, and casks.
  • We'll be offering several artifacts to coincide with the release, one to help with vial management and another specifically for brewers. I won't say anything more!
  • We’ll reduce all the design costs for Brewing to zero for the first month of release, and open up the design queue for people who have the Cooking skillset to help get through old designs that are being touched up.
  • You can now steep in a teapot or kettle, and shake a beverage in a cocktail shaker. Additionally, brewing is also available in cauldrons.

I’m also debating with myself over a few changes I'm thinking about making. I'm wondering if these changes will benefit the players, or create needless hassle. If they're worth the time they'll take to code. Anyway, the questions I have are: 
  • Should we add the ability to set a design as PUBLIC, reducing all fees associated with it, to encourage community crafting? With Brewing coming out, this could mean a handful of designs (such as basic rum, vodka, whiskey) being available to everybody. I'm concerned about balance, in terms of costs, of making crafters redundant in any respect, or encouraging players to keep tailoring at Inept 0%.
  • Should we add the ability for brews to take liquids, as well as solids, as components? 5 sips of vodka, 10 sips of might make an interesting ‘progression’ for more complex brews, and more adventurous brewers, to go through. But, you'd only be able to use liquids available to you, and what if those designs go kaput? It creates a lot of headaches.
  • If we go through with the above, I’m thinking of limiting it to MIX command. So you can brew ‘ingredient’ based brews in a cauldron or pot, then you mix ‘liquid’ brews in a shaker or mixer. And then for the ‘steep’ command, we essentially do brewing under a different skin. We could do this anyway, it's just determining how they -look- and how they operate.
  • Alternatively, I’d be interested in ideas for crafting ‘teabags’ that any lay person can use to steep their own tea. We could do this really simply by allowing crafters to condense liquids into little cloth pouches...or something. 

Anyway before I lose my mind I should wrap this up. I've coded a lot of this (the substantive parts) already, but I'll hold back on releasing until this weekend.



  • PerilunaPeriluna Member Posts: 509 ✭✭✭✭
    I want your babies Tok. 

    No seriously. This is awesome. Thank you. 
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    This is the best thing ever.

    Could add a skill in the trade skills (jewelcraft, tailoring, furniture, etc) at a specific skillrank that gives access to public designs:
    "At GIFTED skillrank, the crafter gains access to public designs (DESIGN LIST PUBLIC [tradeskill OR item type]). A design can be set as public via the DESIGN <#> PUBLIC <CONFIRM> command."

    Will it be possible to retract designs from public access? Have you considered moving expired designs to the public domain? Can we post other random crafting requests in this thread (o my god I want craftable tattoos)?

  • ErzsebetErzsebet Altaholic Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow. All of the awesome. <3<3<3

    YesYesYes @ Public designs.
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of these ideas sound super fun (I love the tagging, for example, and pouring!), but I personally don't like the idea of making crafting more complex. I already just run a script to automatically brew stuff, and I don't find it immersive to take a lot of steps to make things when I make them often or in large quantities; I just script it and tune out, so I don't think I'd enjoy the repeated steps to get a final product.

    If you did put in more component requirements, I think it would cut down the profit margin a lot. We already have to pay for containers and ingredients as is, and I think the standard price for booze is like 150-250 gold each. That doesn't give you much room in what you can use and still make a profit.

    I am ambivalent about the public designs. It would be nice if you could chuck stuff there for everyone to use while you are on an extended vacation, maybe, and then pay a fee (or free!) to get them back private. I don't like the idea of things going there without the owner's permission (like automatically moving there when expired). I'm not sure how this would affect sales for those who own shops, but there are already a lot of designs available via clans and guilds, and they don't seem to really make profits a problem.
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shop taxes should just be removed. I'm not sure why we have them but I really think shopkeepers could do without them.
  • ErzsebetErzsebet Altaholic Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    I -don't- agree with automatically having it become public, or whatever. That said, it -will- cut into profit some if that's the case, more likely than not, because instead of buying it from your shop, they'll just snag a tailor friend and throw a couple cloth at 'em and call it a day. 

    ETA: Not enough to say OHNO, I still think public designs are a great idea--how many standard pairs of black leather pants does the world need, really?
  • KerrynKerryn The Black Flagon InnMember Posts: 270 ✭✭✭✭
    I have always wanted to do blooming teas. With the look in <container> this becomes more of a possibility!

    Would it be possible to add an additional message much like say, incense but instead of smoke it might be:

    A wisp of steam snakes up from <container>

    Or I guess you could even do smells too.

    The mingling aroma of honey and lemon softly wafts up from a steaming cup of lemon tea.

    Or in the case of blooming teas:

    stir <container>
    After so many seconds:
    a dried <insert plant blossom> begins to slowly bloom open in a menagerie of color as the tea steeps in

    These messages could be chosen to happen once or multiple times depending on what is desired by the crafter.
  • AldricAldric Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Regarding public designs:

    Having them default to being public I'm not so keen about, but if it's 100% a player choice to make their particular design public, I think it could be great. I wouldn't worry about your concern about people not investing actual lessons into the skills though, since amount of lessons invested into them still coincides with the decay time. Sure they'd have access to said designs, but they wouldn't last nearly as long as if they had actually made the lesson investment.
    Feelings, sensations that you thought were dead. No squealin' remember, that it's all in your head.
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotionMember Posts: 992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think shop taxes exist in case someone goes inactive, other individuals in an organization have a chance to own a shop.
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Other than credit sales, shop taxes are the only source of steady income for a city. I think Delos could do without them, but the cities? Leave 'em be. Also, what Seir said.

    Also, let me wear my flask on my hip.



    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • PhoeneciaPhoenecia The Merchant of Esterport Somewhere in AtticaMember Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In regards to brewing, the fewer steps it takes to actually make brews, the better. The fact that it takes so much right now (since I don't have a script for it) is what makes brewing such a pain for me; making it an even more involved process will just make it even more tedious.

    Public designs should be opt-in rather than automatic, as some people have already said. I would be pissed if some of my special or personal designs were made public. The idea of having public designs is great, though. Gives newer crafters the ability to make neat things even if they're not confident in their designing abilities.

    Also, I really think there should be more benefits to learning crafting skills past Expert rank. As it stands, I only learn to Expert in all of my craft skills just to be able to make custom stuff because it's not really worth transing just to be able to permanence a few designs.
  • RivasRivas Member Posts: 538 mod
    You are a brave, brave man for tackling ANYTHING related to fluids. Godspeed, Tok.



    (The Front Line): Daskalos says, "<-- artifacts."

  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    (since I don't have a script for it) 

    #ALIAS brewadd {#forall @brewingredients {buy %i;outc %i;~add %i to pot;inc %i};mix pot for @brewitem} "brewing"
    #ALIAS gobrew {brewamount=%1;brewitem=%2;brewingredients=@%2;brewvessel=%3;brewadd} "brewing"
    #TRIGGER {The pot has nothing in it that needs distilling.} {fill @brewvessel from pot;drop @brewvessel;#math brewamount @brewamount-1;empty pot;#if @brewamount&gt;0 {gobrew @brewamount @brewitem @brewvessel} {#say BREWING DONE, YOU DRUNKARD!}} "brewing"
    #TRIGGER {You carefully pour some water into} {#temp {you have recovered balance} {empty pot into still;~fire still}} "brewing"
    #TRIGGER {You open the tap and carefully fill the still} {fill @brewvessel from pot;drop @brewvessel;#math brewamount @brewamount-1;empty pot;#if @brewamount&gt;0 {gobrew @brewamount @brewitem @brewvessel} {#say BREWING DONE, YOU DRUNKARD!}} "brewing"


    #var f### {item1|item2|item3} - sets components for a brew recipe. Eg #var f123 {raspberry|strawberry|sugar}
    GOBREW <#> - starts your autobrewing! Just sit back and enjoy! Eg, GOBREW 5 f123 CUP


    Now you do! :D

  • YusriYusri Member Posts: 73 ✭✭✭
    *MUD script always makes me die a little inside.
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's all I know. :( It works, though!
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Daskalos said:

    Other than credit sales, shop taxes are the only source of steady income for a city. I think Delos could do without them, but the cities? Leave 'em be. Also, what Seir said.

    Also, let me wear my flask on my hip.

    I think, of all places, Delos and the refugee camp shops need to have shop taxes if for no other reason than for the owner of the shop to have to upkeep it somehow. Otherwise we could see people go inactive for long stretches while in posession of a shop and there would be no way for the shop to get transferred to some other player.
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You raise a good point, Xavin. Keep taxes! (did I just say that? Ah well.)



    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mine in Delos and the Camp both got taken from me while I was banned, so I guess admin can/will do it if the person is gone.
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yea, but it was pretty assured that you weren't coming back, because you were banned. This is versus a person that just goes dormant for a time.



    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosomsMember Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even with dormancy, the taxes on Delos go to a counter, where if they go unpaid for long enough, the shop autocloses, and if it stays that way for a period, admin can/do auction them off - even if people with access / ability to pay the taxes log in (and just neglect to do so). 
  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie BraavosMember Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The steeping sounds like something that could almost tie in with fumology blends.
  • HaernHaern Member Posts: 969 Immortal
    Next up, humidors.
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So the awesome changes are out! Some questions and ideas:

    - When does aftertaste fire? As you drink the final sip, or randomly later?
    - Which field does <beverage> refer to? Appearance?

    - Let us do WARES DYE or WARES DYEABLE or something to easily search for items which can be dyed
    - Alternatively, have (dyeable) show in parentheses on an undyed item. That should ping wares dye
    - Let us redye items, like if we get bored or if tailors want to sell stuff in colors instead of grey (wares dye would be very useful, in this case, to determine what can be recolored and what can't)
    - Artifact dyekit! Especially if we could get the ability to redye, I'd totally scoop this up to give things default colors more interesting than grey
    - Suggestions for dye options: blood-stained, dingy, dirty, dove-grey, vermillion, off-white, camouflage (though, seriously, the list is amazing)
  • HaydynHaydyn Member Posts: 169 ✭✭✭

    You sent the following message to Tok:
    Just to clarify: <drink> will be whatever verb the drinker chooses to use, <beverage> will be the appearance?

    Message #1790  Sent By: Tok             Received On: 5/03/2013/17:26

    Additional Ideas/Requests:
    Can we get that DYEKIT COLORS list sorted alphabetically pleasepleaseprettyplease?

  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd like the dyekit colours ordered by colour:


  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember Posts: 807 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they're already ordered by color, or pretty close to it anyway.
  • HaydynHaydyn Member Posts: 169 ✭✭✭
    Maybe add a CONFIG option to choose how we want it ordered?

  • ArekaAreka Drifting in a sea of wenches' bosomsMember Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ctrl + F. 
  • ErzsebetErzsebet Altaholic Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd say just alphabetized by colour and call it a day?

    A way to make something default to a set colour instead of grey would be nifty, IMO--I'd prefer that to being able to re-dye something that's been dyed.
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