Customer Review #2 - Follow-up to Abrupt Closing of Topic - Limiting Opportunity to Respond

Iazamat

It's been mentioned in the past, I'm fairly sure, but I don't know if there's a specific place I can point to.

Xenia

You started a second thread that hasn't been closed. I thought Ictinus was being merciful by ending the thread before more people could chime in and roast you further.

Every time you speak up and try to address this issue the less anyone wants to be on your 'side'. That's not Ictinus' doing, or anyone else's, it's yours and in this case was seeded when you started making inequality arguments in the difference between story earned distinction and those earned with player wallets. You are essentially making an attack on the RP environment by saying characters that earn story distinction (something that rarely happens and should be celebrated for what it adds to the game, not envied because you don't have it) are an example of an unfair environment that is discriminating against you.

What you're failing to acknowledge is your storyline is selfish. It's not something that has earned gamewide distinction. If you have to explain it OOC in a forum why it does have merit means your storyline is meaningless to the player base because it's self serving. I wasn't around for whatever event led to Mazzion getting his Ankyrean ties, but there are lots of players who were and this was a public event that holds meaning to the story of Aetolia and all the players who were playing at the time. It wasn't something purchased or even crafted for personal interest and instead something unforeseen that occurred and gave life to the world. My point is, you can't really point to this and say it's not fair that he has that and you don't have an airship.

The best thing you can walk away with now is this: If you want people to respect what you have to say or your opinion, be less selfish about it and don't try to diminish the RP environment in the process of getting what you want.

Iesid

Jhin said:

Iazamat said:

I'm pretty sure it's been said before that IRE is not responsible for what happens once you liquidate your credits/real money purchases into gold. Let this be a lesson to not do that in future auctions.

To piggyback I'd be curious to know where that disclaimer is. If you know where it's at.

edit: this is found once you select a product and move towards the payment screen for any purchase whatsoever in Aetolia or any other IRE game.

Nipsy

Also if you read: https://www.aetolia.com/tos/

11. Disclaimer Of Warranty.
THE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY HEREBY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY FURTHER DOES NOT WARRANT THE COMPLETENESS OR ACCURACY OF THE SERVICES OR LINKS PROVIDED BY THE SERVICES. THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THE OPERABILITY OF THE SERVICES, BECAUSE CRASHES AND DOWNTIME ARE INEVITABLE. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN ACTION BASED IN CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORT, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICES. SIMPLY PUT, WE WILL DO OUR BEST TO MAINTAIN THE SERVICES, BUT ARE NOT LIABLE TO ANYONE, FOR ANY RESULT OF ANY FAILURE TO DO SO.

12. Limitation Of Liability.
NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY, THE COMPANY'S AND ITS AFFILIATES', LICENSORS' AND SUBCONTRACTORS' TOTAL LIABILITY TO YOU ARISING FROM OR IN RELATION TO THIS AGREEMENT OR THE SERVICES ARE HEREBY AGREED TO BE NOTHING AND NONEXISTENT.

13. Consequential Damages.
IN NO EVENT WILL THE COMPANY, ITS AFFILIATES, LICENSORS OR SUBCONTRACTORS BE RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY LOSS OF USE OR COSTS OF SUBSTITUTE SERVICES, HOWEVER CAUSED, WHETHER FOR BREACH OF REPUDIATION OF CONTRACT, TORT, BREACH OF WARRANTY, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY, ITS AFFILIATES, LICENSORS OR SUBCONTRACTORS WERE ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH LOSS OR DAMAGES AND NOTWITHSTANDING THE FAILURE OF ESSENTIAL PURPOSE OF ANY LIMITED REMEDY STATED HEREIN. IN JURISDICTIONS THAT DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, THE COMPANY'S, ITS AFFILIATES', LICENSORS' AND SUBCONTRACTORS' LIABILITY IS LIMITED TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.


I mean in all of this, generally theres no liability to provide anything to us the players, or any expectation we have of them.
Frankly, Ictinus was generous offering you a refund.

Rasani

Dude, just take the L. Seriously, Ictinus came into the game to save it from the dumpster fire it was before and you're pissed an item that was poorly put together won't do what you want AND aren't okay with getting a FULL REFUND that you could, in turn, go ahead and buy credits with again and buy other artifacts with. And I get it, you claim this is no longer about the gold or item and now "Ictinus made me look bad and took my words out of context and even with all the work this dude has put in since taking the job, he's now Bad and Evil because I can't bully him into doing what I want like Tiur"

You made yourself look bad, and continue to do so. And my hand to whatever god Ya'll believe in, I don't give a single shit if he lied or took your words out of context. I really, truly don't. Unless he's lying about Aetolian servers running on diamond blood money or how the company bigwigs all get around and kick seal puppies, I don't give a shit. He's getting work done and offered you a totally acceptable solution to the problem, and you're pissed you couldn't bully him into doing what YOU think would be fair. Which, I guess, is what, paying for your time? I don't get to return a purchase and make best buy pay me not only the cost of the item, but ALSO for the time I worked to build up the money to buy the product.

I know we're all used to complaining about stuff in Aetolia, but this ain't it dude.

Seurimas

I don't like how "Tiur bad, Ictinus good" is the tagline here. I mean, things are great and Ictinus is doing great, and much better than Tiur. But also, it's possible for him to make mistakes and set bad precedence.

This just isn't one of those cases, though. This isn't a "customer review" and never has been. You're just making demands in a public venue after the private venue failed. Caving to those demands would be the bad precedence.

To your credit, and rereading Ictinus and your own words, he may have worded his summary of your "request" regarding Mazzion poorly. However, the actual wording does not paint you in a significantly better light. And, frankly, when you take to shaming in a public venue as you have, someone handling customer service can be forgiven for not having perfect composure and precision (even if that person is the producer of the game).

Ehtias

i'll water you daily.

Kurak

How much gold did you pay for this doodad? Are we talking 10s of millions? Because you seem really hung up on it. I mean, losing 10s of millions can hurt. I suggest taking the refund and just moving on. If you really feel that wronged stop spending on the game.

Lim

Jhin said:

Iesid said:

I'm not sure this is a productive use of your time, my dude.

While I understand that you feel as if your time and attention is difficult to refund without a compromise that steps over the line, you've also got to understand the position that Ictinus is in as the new Producer. He stepped inside a burning room in a manner vaguely reminiscent of a famous scene from Community. There were fires to put out everywhere. Your environmental token is one such fire. Ictinus even went on record saying that the auction item in question was poorly explained - I'd go further and say that the token is a monument to Tiur's incompetence/lack of forethought.

Unfortunately, while it isn't 'your fault' that IRE kept an incompetent lackwit on as Producer for so long, you need to keep in mind what goes into the change of management. Yes, Tiur screwed the pooch. However, Ictinus has to set a precedent and keep to it - he offered a full currency refund, which is way more than IRE usually springs for in most other situations. If he gives you better than what you paid, what sort of precedent does that set to every other customer who had a bone to pick with Tiur's inability to do his job?

It has to stop somewhere. I'm sorry you got burnt so badly. However, were I in your shoes, I'd take the full currency refund before I got roasted any further.

Honestly, I don't care about the roast and the only reason I decided to post this was to end it. After @Ictinus response was made I wasn't done. He closed the post prematurely.

I don't even care about the refund for the environment token at this point in time because there's a new issue. The producer of Aetolia lied. I never said I would be "willing" to trade in my environment token "if" Mazzion lost his blue name.

As one of my friends pointed on to me via discord he put it like this.

You did not state formally you wanted to redeem the token for that.
You simply were pointing out the false equivalencies they make regarding fairness.

Which in my original post I expressed that I think its nice when people get different things because "fair" is not a realistic goal. Nothing will ever be fair. The only thing unfair about all of this is Iron Realms releasing an item, me buying it, and them going back on what they said it would do and what it is for.

This post is not about them doing right by their customer its about @Ictinus using one sentence that I wrote and placing it out of context. How would someone else losing something justify anything for myself? So him making that statement was also an insult to my character and sure it doesnt matter IRL because the Aetolian community via forums loves to be internet trolls and feed into drama. But at the end of the day I'm going to say something if someone lies about me.

If he wants to delete this post or if he doesn't want to respond then fine. But at the end of the day I'm going to let my voice be heard. He posted one sentence, placed it out of context and closed the forum post to try and silence me? That's petty, rude, and childish. If you truly stand by your own statement @Ictinus then post the entire log.

Also @Lim I could say they altered it and all that. And whether you believe me or not doesn't matter. If you think I'm upset for no reason or trying to create problems for the admin etc. Then that's okay. I don't really mind. But at the end of the day whoever has access to the logs @Keroc @Razmael @Ictinus take a look and see if I made the request as @Ictinus wrote:

He said:

Jhin - Hey Ictinus, I'm willing to refund my environment token if mazzion loses his blue name.

The truth:

Jhin - Your idea on fairness isn't consistent so I don't find that to be a reasonable or realistic rejection point to Iron Realms not following through with the item they sold me. For instance: Mazzion's blue name, happened before you were here, and yes it isn't "fair" that others cant have a blue name. But I never created an ultimatum not requested for Mazzion to get his blue name removed. I was pointed out the false equivalences that exist regarding his idea of fairness.

And tbh I know most of you have never heard me speak IRL but its easy for @Ictinus to close the post down after he pasted a sentence and lied about what I was requesting of him. In conversation it wouldn't have ever gotten this far - I would have shut that down immediately. ESPECIALLY, because he made his response European time so all of the Aetolian Internet Trolls proceeded to take a one sided story, make conclusions then progress this idea @Ictinus interjected while I was sleep.

I've known @Mazzion for a long time, look at Jhin's BLOODLINE.

Zras is Jhin's father. So the respect that I have for Mazz goes back to when I first started playing this game. So that's why I have a lot to say about this and it rests with me.

So all of this is extremely upsetting that I'm not backed by the Aetolian community when I have been around for 17 years and @Ictinus is a brand new producer who steps through the door and makes an outlandish claim against me after who was wronged in this situation. Me. No one else. I hope this doesn't happen to you.

And PLUS, if this is how Iron Realms manages its customer service - don't be surprised if you log into your character one day and Iron Realms says abruptly - sorry guys we're shutting down. On to new ventures. At the end of the day this situation showed me the type of people who manage this company and its saddening really.

That's all I have to say and whoever has an objective point of view thank you for reading.

P.S.
@Keroc and @Razmael

I know you two haven't commented and you're the only other admin I know of in Aetolia. I urge you to look at the log and confirm if I said:

I am willing to refund my environment token IF Mazzion loses his blue name.

If you're unable to confirm that through the logs then are you okay with @Ictinus lying about customers on forums?

Yeah, I get you. I wasn't saying you would lie about any alterations to the log. I'm saying there's no point waiting for them to have to dig through the log and post it for you, and honestly is not their prerogative to do so. Wanting them to dig out a log to post is just unnecessary drama. If you want to clear your name, then just post the log on your end.

Ayastia

What's unreasonable is selling an item then pulling it off the shelf. Once a customer buys something that transaction is finished. If for some reason Iron Realms cant do it, then I shouldn't break even. Not how a good business treats their customers. I mess your order up, I'm sorry here's a new one or here's your money back and $5 off next time you come. Sorry for your troubles.

Holy crap basket. Hi Karen! But this is seriously reminiscent of a player who threatened to sue IRE when she bought credits, gambled them, and lost them. She demanded a return. What was the outcome? Now we cannot gamble credits. I would not be surprised if this crap kills future auctions