What class do you want mirrored next?

Lin

Stine said:

Y'al sleeping on barndoorani where all of the ents are just barnyard animals and the tarot cards are different farming instruments.

I can finally sling my hoes around...

Nisavi

I can safely say that Spirit has wanted something similar to Indorani for years. Tarot is a game changer, and Doppleganger (while not as strong as it used to be) is tempting as well as Spirit's ranged options used to be limited to really just Telepathy and Kaido back in the day.

Church

Unfortunately at this juncture many of the remaining classes function in too deeply intertwined a rock-paper-scissors system in terms of group combat utility to be able to comfortably elect one set of them to be added next.

For example: If Shadow receives Sentinel, Spirit needs Sciomancer to be able to shut down arrows with Retardation. Yet if Spirit receives Sciomancer, Shadow will need Zealot in order to reliably protect themselves from Labyrinth. However, if Shadow receives Zealot then Spirit must receive Indorani in order to prevent an imbalance in the availability of ranged options (Doppleganger vs Projection) and room-wide banishment (Pit vs Purgatory)...

Considering that and the obvious Shaman/Teradrim connection, the only ones that could be added as a simple pair without starting a chain reaction are Luminary + Praenomen...

Maira

Lin said:

I have this completely unrealistic idea in my head that somehow we're gonna get Spirit Indorani as a badass dreamworld-themed Oneiromancer class, and on the strength of my pure imagination I'm goin' for it!

I like that. As a totally Indo char, I really hope this happens or something relative. 

Elene

I'm just liking all the changelog decisions made for the Indorani and Luminary classes prior to considering them for mirrors and to be honest, I think no one side is going to be satisfied until all classes are mirrored. At that point, all of us will possess equal access to the same tools, with less opportunity for us to point at each other and gripe that they're superior in xyz because they have abc abilities.

Jhin

Sheesh! I’m the only Zealot vote. Shadow Zealot look something like Spawn? 🤔

Saidenn

Just in case you want some inspiration for Shadow Luminary, I found some references in my excitement.

Rihrin

Saidenn said:

Just in case you want some inspiration for Shadow Luminary, I found some references in my excitement.

What did you do? Google bad guys with maces and shields?

Saidenn

No! It was more like exploring 5e clerics with death/evil/grave domains!

Lin

I guess I'll post my regular reminder that the mirror classes aren't literally "this class but good/evil"

Saidenn

Lin said:

I guess I'll post my regular reminder that the mirror classes aren't literally "this class but good/evil"

Aesthetics. While no class is good or evil and it is not inherent that anything made will be "good/evil" the aesthetics currently inherent on each side tend to go toward the aesthetics usually associated with good or evil. See Teradrim, Praenomen, Carnifex, then the shadow-y aesthetics of Spines in general.

That said, regardless of what aesthetic shadow luminary may take, it will wield some blunt and a shield, hence the art!

Drystin

I was also picturing evil clerics from D&D when thinking about shadow lumi. One cleric in particular by the name of Barjin came to mind from a book called Canticle which, if you haven't read it, I would highly recommend.

Here is a link that explains Who Barjin is.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Barjin

Jhin

Do you guys really want this?

OR THIS

Naos

Lin said:

I guess I'll post my regular reminder that the mirror classes aren't literally "this class but good/evil"

I always feel like saying the same thing, but look at the first two!

Lin

Naos said:

I always feel like saying the same thing, but look at the first two!

Yeah, true, though that might just be the peril you run into designing weapons-based classes - off the top of my head I couldn't tell you how to design a class that uses polearms, heavy blunt weapons, and raises pets, and make it not just feel like redressed Carnifex. I bet a class like Archivist or Zealot could really play with the design space, though.

Alela

Keep in mind that Luminary's mace is transformed into a magical weapon by a class skill. There's almost no reason a mirrored version would have to use mace and shield at all, really. You could have them be like a more brute version of Indorani (Aztob???) who bond with a single, specific chaos entity and use focused blasts of necromantic power to produce the effects luminaries get from mace/shield. That'd even work with the few pieces of lumi's kit that produce limb damage, since arguably necromantic degeneration could damage limbs (& in fact indo already sort of does this).

EDIT: FURTHERMORE, the Aztob style scroll that can be purchased in the Shattered Vortex also lends credence to this interpretation of the Aztob as a more feral, brutal version of the Indorani. If we went this direction, perhaps rather than the chaos entity I suggested above, it could be a necromantic construct. This might be a good way to tie off the storyline between Vyxsis and Mandre's Aztob - Mandre finally reemerges after years of silence to bequeath new techniques to her fallen Indorani sistren, etc. etc. etc.