A Salty Sadboy Post about admin RP

Tetchta

Don’t really know the best way to go about this, so I’m just going to air my dirty laundry in public because I’m, apparently, not very smart.

Recently, I went through a lot of effort to create new RP, both for vampires and for my character personally. This led to a conflict with the Dominion after a while, including some pretty fun cat-and-mouse PVP AND some cool RP with Dominion members. It was some of the most fun I’d had playing since I came back, and it was really fun to do something new when the game has been at a bit of a standstill for months.

THEN I saw Abhorash log on, and I thought “OH BOY! It’s escalated into a full-blown RP event, that’s AWESOME.” I literally got a shot of adrenaline waiting to see what would happen. I saw Dominion members and Abhorash chilling in the zone that was the center of the RP and waited for something, anything--a snarky/condescending Tell from Abhorash, a kill, an ANYTHING, and...nothing happened. Abhorash went to idle while the Dominion, apparently, got a really cool Guild Event out of all of this, and I got to sit around twiddling my thumbs. My anticipation and excitement started to slowly sour and wilt into bitterness and anger as I slowly realized that an event that I helped catalyze and had sunk a lot of time and energy into would just...not include me, at all. It was, probably, one of my biggest disappointments as a player I can think of in recent memory.

In a, frankly, desperate attempt to get attention, I sent a positive Esteem to the pools praising the improv and initiative, but also voiced that I was feeling kinda dejected for not being included, hoping that this would spur something, anything, even if it was a bit desperate. Roughly 10 minutes after that, the event was over, and Abhorash qq’d.

I have heard that similar things have happened to other players who have tried to push unique ideas and plot elements and have similarly been sidelined and ignored while other people get cool admin-centric RP out of it. And I don’t even know why I’m writing this, to be entirely truthful? It just, to be simplistic, really hurt my feelings and it’s a really staggering blow to feel ignored when you put a lot of time into something.

I sent a message to Tiur about how I felt about it, but that doesn’t really make me feel excellent because it makes me feel like I have created a situation like this:

And I don't think it's really a good sign to feel like people are RPing with you only because their boss told them to or they got a complaint. To quote someone else this happened to, "It feels like they're being transparent about which players they don't like." Which may be unfair, but I actually kinda feel that. It may be untrue, but that's how these situations read.

I'm not sure if this is isolated, but I guess if I were to add anything constructive it'd be "If you're going to do an event that someone was highly invested in the scenario surrounding it, doing literally anything to include them would probably make their day, and neglecting to can do the opposite."

I'm unironically and sincerely glad that the Dominion got something cool out of this, and I'm really not mad about conflict getting a resolution from admin doing roleplay. Just salty, and probably will be for a while, that it FEELS like getting admin/pools RP is just...I dunno. Impossible.

Anyway this has been my Bad Idea Sadpost.

Abhorash

I can shed some light on this as the person who ran the event.

The closing of the Bihrkaen has actually been "in the works" for over a RL year - it was an approved orgreq from way way back. Due to various reasons, the resolution was put on hold for a long while. The Dominion had wanted to get rid of the place/free the bloodslaves for a long time but didn't receive the necessary Pools push to actually get it done.

Tetchta's actions were definitely an impetus on an OOC level to get it done sooner than later, but this was something the Dominion already had in the works long before Tetchta's crusade. On an IC level this was a weird spot to be in; while it was technically a feud between Tetchta and the Dominion, both parties were actually after the same resolution. It's hard for the Dominion to explain ICly though that their approved resolution was simply on hold due to unavailability of Pools support. The loyalty flag on the mobs also made it hard for the Dominion to directly condemn the place, even though that was their stance for over a year.

As far as the event, honestly I just completely winged it. I had no idea what was going to happen and no real plan beyond it ending with the slaves gone. It wasn't inherently closed off to anyone - you were welcome to just show up. However, the event itself was the fulfilment of something long outstanding, not in IC response to Tetchta's actions. Abhorash wasn't even actually at the event until a token appearance at the end because the improvised direction didn't call for him.

The resolution/event was designed to just be as quick and simple as possible with no real pre-planning because 1) the more parties involved the more complex it gets, 2) complex things tend to get pushed back and potentially fall by the wayside, and 3) a quick resolution needed to be made to get the Dominion out of the precarious IC spot mentioned above.

I apologize for making you feel left out, that was never the intention. While on an OOC level Tetchta's crusade definitely was a major contributor to finally Getting This Done, it wouldn't have been fair to the Dominion to have this become a Tetchta-centered event when it's something they've asked for/been waiting for for a long long time.

For what it's worth, I did read your journal and OOCly I think it's cool to go about with your own interpretation. Abhorash is just Kind Of A Dick and wouldn't reply directly to it, especially since it doesn't jive with his own worldview and thus isn't worth his time beyond blowing people up. You're not the only person that's been stonewalled by Abhorash - he gets a surprising amount of stuff sent to him, some of it bespoke for him. I always feel awful on an OOC level for ignoring the effort people put in but such is the nature of a super condescending/uptight character.

In these instances, I'm actually not quite sure what players would prefer - no attention at all or very negative attention? I mean sending Abhorash a cupcake, regardless of how well designed it is, either elicits no reaction or a complete douchebag reaction. Not sure which players would actually prefer but I err on the side of the former.

As far as admin interaction, I promise it's not about people not liking certain players or whatnot. It's more that time is limited and there are often long outstanding things that need to be addressed before starting new threads (I am personally super guilty of leaving stuff hanging for indefinite periods of time). This also means that when I do go out to do some oneshot/small interaction, it's often easy to just fall into the trap of doing so with people I am already familiar with. That's something I will definitely keep in mind for the future; I realize it can be super frustrating to see the same people getting GodRP all the time.

I hope this sheds some clarity on what happened here and why it proceeded the way it did.

Tetchta

Abhorash said:

In these instances, I'm actually not quite sure what players would prefer - no attention at all or very negative attention? I mean sending Abhorash a cupcake, regardless of how well designed it is, either elicits no reaction or a complete douchebag reaction. Not sure which players would actually prefer but I err on the side of the former.

I'm still processing the entire thing you posted, but can definitely reply to this as my PERSONAL preference that I wouldn't mind super negative interactions. I even said to someone that "even a letter that said 'screw you rogue garbage'" would've made my day brighter. I get the trepidation, and that's just 100% my personal preference.

I totally buy that this was something that was being worked on for a while, and I'm glad that it at least got acknowledged that my characters' actions were an impetus to make it happen. I wasn't looking for a "Wow Tetchta is so Cool I wish I were like himb, this event is about them" thing, I just felt excluded, and it felt either intentional or negligent. Emphasis on "felt," since I know that my feelings don't reflect the world around me.

You response makes me feel better and less bitter, at least, heh, so thank you.

Edit: Although I will say that I hope you're not reducing my post into "I wanted a Tetchta-centric event" because that wasn't my intention, and it is not what I was trying to say, so if I can clarify at all, I'd be happy to.

Abhorash

I appreciate the post and explanation of your side. We're just human beings in the Pools and we don't get everything right. I think communication like this is important to really improve the experience for both sides. In hindsight, I definitely should have pinged you, even if on an OOC level, to let you know something was happening and that you were welcome to attend. At the end of the day, our ultimate goal is to make the game more enjoyable for you, the players.

On that note, speaking to events in general, nobody should feel afraid to drop in and at least watch. We can't promise you'll be granted a role in the proceedings but unless it's made explicitly clear otherwise, you're always welcome to at least watch.

Just a teeny tiny disclaimer to please not try to hijack events that are clearly centered around other people/parties! Also that juggling mobposs/mechanics/emotes gets very hectic so we often miss stuff, we're not ignoring you on purpose during these. I often go back through my logs and think ah shit, I missed something I should have totally reacted to here.

Haven

I can sympathize as I've been in a similar situation before. I cultivated an RP revolving around a huge wildfire as "punishment" to Duiran that prompted so much RP from a lot of players I hadn't interacted with before. They even got some involvement with Haern and I distinctly recall waiting for some back and forth to happen. By the end, the only thing I got were two zaps. No communication, no emotes. No custom deathsight, nada. I was a bit disappointed.

My biggest take away from that and I think it semi-applies here is that one of the worst mistakes a player can make in any given situation is wait for RP to come to them. If you see something happening that you want to be involved in, especially one you helped cultivate, go insert yourself directly.

Tetchta

Haven said:

My biggest take away from that and I think it semi-applies here is that one of the worst mistakes a player can make in any given situation is wait for RP to come to them. If you see something happening that you want to be involved in, especially one you helped cultivate, go insert yourself directly.

I get that--the thing that gets my goat about that though is that it won't always make sense from a character-motivation sense to just show up into a mess you created and go "TADA! I'M HERE, BENCHES!" It feels, to me, even more selfish and problematic, especially since, arguably, if you did the effort for inciting events, that is you inserting yourself into a situation, and plausibly the opposite of "waiting for RP to come to you."

But yeah, showing up, even if it was slightly immersion-breaking, would have been the better move here.

Haven

Abhorash said:

In these instances, I'm actually not quite sure what players would prefer - no attention at all or very negative attention? I mean sending Abhorash a cupcake, regardless of how well designed it is, either elicits no reaction or a complete douchebag reaction. Not sure which players would actually prefer but I err on the side of the former.

In my opinion, the best approach to take is just DM acknowledgement. It doesn't have to be negative or nothing. This could be done in any number of ways if admin think a player's effort warrants an interaction. As a player there's probably nothing better than seeing the game world respond to your actions. So while the uptight character might ignore a player, that doesn't necessarily mean the world would. Maybe the uptight character has a servant or maybe a guard witnessed the uptight character crumple the letter and toss it. It could even just be background ambiance to set mood or a theme in response to their actions. It's all a form of response that doesn't necessarily require a specific NPC to react that I think could go a long way in terms of admin tipping a hat to a player.

Tetchta

Haven said:

In my opinion, the best approach to take is just DM acknowledgement. It doesn't have to be negative or nothing. This could be done in any number of ways if admin think a player's effort warrants an interaction. As a player there's probably nothing better than seeing the game world respond to your actions. So while the uptight character might ignore a player, that doesn't necessarily mean the world would. Maybe the uptight character has a servant or maybe a guard witnessed the uptight character crumple the letter and toss it. It could even just be background ambiance to set mood or a theme in response to their actions. It's all a form of response that doesn't necessarily require a specific NPC to react that I think could go a long way in terms of admin tipping a hat to a player.

This is what I was thinking as I was unpacking the situation. Abhorash is kinda posh and might ignore someone as his form of looking down on them ("You are beneath my notice, maggot" type stuff), but I do think there are other ways to at least give a nod to the player work, like what you were saying. I'm struggling to come up with good examples off the top of my head of what that might without sounding self-important, but there's always little things you can do acknowledge player effort.