Announce post #3124: Celerity

Autoposter

7/26/2020 at 3:57
Keroc, the Starborn
Everyone
Celerity

Celerity has been reverted back to what it was before. Zoom.

I've decided to keep Shock around for now, although no one has access to it at the moment.

I'll keep an eye on what people say about the other changes for now. Celerity seemed to be the most unpopular, and with it reverted it should allow the other changes to get a little more focus.

Don't forget that:
Hypersight gives you 100% illusion detection.
Shadow lets you move and gain the Hiding defence for Backstab.

They're just food for thought, I'm not against rethinking things.

Small bug fix:
Elixir balance in GMCP should now point to 'elixir' instead of 'affelixir'.

Penned by my hand on Closday, the 8th of Khepary, in the year 489 MA.

Ehtias

I've had several people say hypersights only currently working on directed illusions and not roomwide ones

Validan

Also didn't realize Shadow was the only method Syssin have to gained Hidden. RIP Shadowslip or waiting for Camouflage to proc. Not solving the problem doesn't make the issue disappear.

Nisavi

Legitimately not a fan of any of these changes still. Celerity was the most annoying, sure, but the other ones are still egregious. Many artifacts, skills, etc.. have been impacted either directly or indirectly in terms of value and impact as a result. My goggles have a redundant, useless power on them. Lifevision still effectively garbo. The maintenance of Hypersight adds yet another willpower drain burden on classes that already strain with willpower as is by comparison to others... and as Ehtias said and I said and tested elsewhere: Hypersight only works on targeted illusions, not room wide ones. I can still illusion people all day.

Edit: I'm gonna be honest. These are probably some of the worst changes I've seen brought to live in the many years I've played Aetolia, mostly because they should've been tested and experimented with elsewhere prior to going live. I have no interest in spending a ton of time making modifications to my system in order to adapt it to this change only for that to be potentially reverted when we come to the blatant realization that it isn't a good idea.

Keroc

Ehtias said:

I've had several people say hypersights only currently working on directed illusions and not roomwide ones

That would be a bug. You'll have to let me know which illusion ability it is though because it is likely specific to that ability.

Ehtias

From what I know Illusion and perhaps chromatics based illusions. Given the class I was told was doing it.

Czcienn

Heatsight requires balance but doesn't cost anything so it's just a matter of who wants to spam it the most. Seems kinda weird for it to work like this.

Keroc

Ehtias said:

From what I know Illusion and perhaps chromatics based illusions. Given the class I was told was doing it.

Can't be them, from my testing both were detected as expected.

Czcienn

So can we also get an explanation as to why the celerity/recovery change was made in the first place?

Nisavi

Keroc said:

Ehtias said:

From what I know Illusion and perhaps chromatics based illusions. Given the class I was told was doing it.

Can't be them, from my testing both were detected as expected.

That's odd then. I tested it and was only getting illusion messages from Hypersight off of targeted illusions. Maybe it was because I was doing the casting.

Either way: it's yet another willpower drain/burden on folks, and some classes already are more disproportionately impacted by this than others. It also doesn't change that Lifevision is solidly not worth 750 credits, nor 9 pieces of salvage for the goggles.

I'm glad that you're willing to try new things and open to reverting, but I don't really have any desire to play with these changes. Sorry. I think there are better ways to fix Pit, and these changes have had far-reaching consequences that were covered in the last thread.

Keroc

Czcibor said:

So can we also get an explanation as to why the celerity/recovery change was made in the first place?

It was just a concept to add more mechanics to design around. If people seemed interested, then more things would've been moved to recovery like arties and so on.

Drystin

The celerity change was annoying but the hide change is -broken-. Shadowslip has been made pointless by this change, backstab is now mostly only usable from phase against a target that is not also in phase which I'll also note forces it to be used exclusively as an opener now (not usually ideal) and no longer a means to slow runners further along in the fight.

I can't shadow someone who is currently in the room with me and I can't shadow a target even if an ally is in the room with me. Furthermore, shadow knocks you off balance and if the target moves while you're off balance you won't follow. Also.. how long has shadow provided the hide defense? That's news to me. (I think that might not be accurate tbh) 

This hide change has not only nerfed hide but backstab, shadowslip, the cold blood relic, and probably other things. Again though, it was worded as though this change was meant to give hide more use and this doesn't achieve that by any means. It effectively has done the opposite. 

Xavin

Idea: Make shadowslip a defense that hides you on movement automatically with no balance associated after its been put up. This would allow at least pve functionality. I'm not sure a good solution for the fact that you can't hide when another player is around, maybe give it a % chance based on the deception mechanics (I think that's what it's called) to hide you before people notice you're there unless they have lifevision?

Tetchta

Just as a small contribution, I don't hate the idea of shock at all--it seems like an interesting way to limit mobility, especially in 1v1 fights, without fully grinding combat to a halt. Just think making recovery a separate thing from celerity was a big swing and a miss.

Tenshyo

Thank you for undoing one part of this travesty. Now, what about the rest?

Also, where is the explanation of WHY any of this happened? It's been said now countless times that none of the changes seem to be tested, and were were lofted out. 'Experiment' should not directly take away (significantly) from the fun of the game. 

We're here to have fun and a good time, not continuously WORK after we have done our real jobs. Tedious and tasking /= fun. 

These unreverted changes still make absolutely zero sense.


Just like keeping Flairs willpower drain makes zero sense. It's a cosmetic, and saying that 'we don't want people using them 24/7' is a crap reason to keep a COSMETIC drain when it does NOTHING to affect combat.

Xavin

Honestly, I think we need to give the elixir changes a chance before calling for them to be rolled back. The hide changes are...weird, and break a couple of things specifically for syssin, though they weren't ever going to be using just hiding for stealth.

Tetchta

Xavin said:

Honestly, I think we need to give the elixir changes a chance before calling for them to be rolled back. The hide changes are...weird, and break a couple of things specifically for syssin, though they weren't ever going to be using just hiding for stealth.

Yeah I'm not a total glumbum about the elixer changes. I honestly haven't messed with them enough to see how it impacts my life yet, and since I just bash and do lessers, I'm not 100% convinced I'm going to notice much of a change (except for maybe in Dome.)

I'm mixed on the hide changes. I...don't hate the vision-related changes (glad I didn't fork over for the lifevision mask though, or spend time upgrading goggles. If I had I'd probably be deep in the salt mines), but stripping hide on movement just...it really blows, man. Even manages to negatively impact me, because when I'm classed as Syssin and do vermin hunting, I like to use backstab + shadowslip. It's dumb and I love it.

Naro

I purchased Life-vision to avoid the willpower and mana drain from Hypersight because some classes already have big drains.

You should at least offer a mass refund on a big change like this.

Oonagh

Naro said:

I purchased Life-vision to avoid the willpower and mana drain from Hypersight because some classes already have big drains.

You should at least offer a mass refund on a big change like this.

Honestly consider also those who leveled goggles up for Lifevision specifically, whilst a refund may not be plausible on an antiquated artifact, some other option should probably be provided as well. Its a pretty drastic change to functionality.

Ehtias

Please contact the refund office in the grook homeland.

Oonagh

Ehtias said:

Please contact the refund office in the grook homeland.

Grook homeland machine broke.