Why Vampires are Bad and How to Fix It

TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
I’m going to try to keep this as brief and concise as I can, so forgive me if it seems like I’m being too brusque. I’m also going to preface this with a disclaimer that my criticisms are largely about mechanics and organizational structure, and how those tie into each other, and is not a slam of individual players, and it should not be taken that way.

Vampires, pardon the pun, absolutely suck right now. I think you’d be hard-pressed to make a convincing argument otherwise. The goal of this post is to diagnose, from my personal perspective, why this is the case and, hopefully, prescribe fixes to the problem. So here we go, point by point

PROBLEMS
  1. The Dominion was a bad idea: I actually don't know the reasoning behind boxing Vampires, a subrace, into another cookie-cutter guild. I'm guessing it was an attempt to solve the problem of languishing Houses by consolidating vampires into one group home. The problem with this, however, is that, for years vampirism was mechanically organic and fluid, allowing for a free expansion of the class base. This created some problems, sure, and definitely problems worth fixing, but jamming everything into one guild is, I think, ultimately the biggest central source of the problems associated with the current set-up. Almost all the current problems stem from this specific choice. Even if the Dominion were an amazing guild with super active membership and great roleplay, this would still be a problem, because it flies in the face of one of the biggest appeals of vampirism: that you can find a vampire in the wild and become a vampire yourself. Which brings me to my next point.
  2. Fencing off Embrace/Siring mechanics behind the Dominion was a bad idea: this is probably my biggest complaint. Having to be within the Dominion (or have the Primus's blessing or something?) in order to embrace new vampires is just...like why? It seems like this was a loose justification for the Dominion's existence, but what it does instead is hold the class and subrace hostage in order to force people to join the Dominion. It's creating a problem so you can sell the solution. What infuriates me the most about this, though, is that multiclassing across the board is WAY more free than this, so why on earth is a class that, historically, has been egalitarian and open (its main appeal for many), somehow more constrictive than any other class in the game now?
  3. Having the Monomythic Primus be a regular, run of the mill player was a bad idea: this is probably the closest thing to what may seem like a personal attack, but I really don't mean it as any slight against Callidora. The main strength of a character like Abhorash was that the dude basically didn't exist. He was a free-floating idea of a person to which people could ascribe various qualities. In short, he was a myth, and it was really, really good. Now, we have player-played Primuses, which dramatically cheapens the mythos of vampires. Because unless a player playing the Primus is an expert politician, an unflappable combatant, a philosopher of the highest caliber, and an economic genius, they're always going to fall short in the face of a myth. So having that role, one with such significance in the lore be handled by a player, just reduces the quality of the lore behind vampires. This one is more of a theming complaint, but I think it ties in regardless.
HOW TO FIX THEM

This, I feel, is arguably simpler and less long-winded than the above, I hope.
  1. Cut a hole in the box Delete the Dominion: gone. It shouldn't be a thing anymore.
  2. Make Vampirism a true subrace pseudoclass like Shapeshifters
  3. Let all vampires with the skill embrace anyone they want.
  4. Get rid of peerage as a coded thing.
  5. Reduce the significance of the Primus/Progenitor thing by just, like, I don't know, killing off Abhorash or something.
  6. Maybe even make an NPC that can give people vampirism. I mean, newbies can make themselves undead ffs.
I think the instinct with the problems with Vampire Houses was to pack everyone together, when it should have been to nuke everything from orbit and open up vampirism entirely. Instead it's ended up one of the most restrictive classes to acquire. I even, daresay, think the current set-up is likely to drive new players away from the game. They go "oh boy, I can be a vampire!" and then end up funneled into one of the least-appealing guilds in the entire game. I mean, in all honesty, I almost quit the game again due to my experiences with new vampirism. If I hadn't been reached out to by the Carnifex and learned that the game has sooooo much to offer still, it probably would've been it for me.

In any case, these are my thoughts. I really think Vamps are overdue for a revamp.
You stare implacably at Abhorash, and he shrinks from your gaze.
MarinAlystrineBenedictoArbreDrystinAxiusUltraLin

Comments

  • UltraUltra Member Posts: 7
    edited March 4
    As a completely new Aetolian player who is maining a Praenomen; I found the Imperial Dominion pretty awesome, not difficult for a seasoned IRE player with a pretty well rounded novice introduction promotion line.

    I find the politics of the whole secret vampire civil war thing actually kind of intriguing and pretty sweet player rp. The leadership is decent and helpful, there's a want of members to be more competitive and well rounded adventurers.

    The idea of a mafia family esq imperial line is solid gold rp and no other house is structured like the dominion is, it's pretty dope actually.

    All the problems from the twilight tweeny rp was from other guild's novices and not from consanguine players nor seasoned players that I saw and someone brought up the point that god forbid someone have fun.

    Which I will point out that there are indeed 3 categories of adventurers and everyone is a mix of these, some being moreso than others-
    hunter
    combatant
    social
    hunters are needed for essence and economy
    combatants are needed for soldiering and protecting citymates
    social/rp'ers are needed for culture and immersion
    no successful guild is any one of these things specifically as all are needed for the cohesion of the world. The ID has a solid pool of all three basics.

    Anyways, I just disagree with a lot that you say here about how the guild is not up to some standard you have, as it's pretty decent. I made full house rank with no one pushing me, nor really any hang ups, it wasn't easy, and it helped point me in the direction of what cool stuff to find in Aetolia.

    The house structure is unique and intriguing with dedicated and active leadership and matron. It's fun to play and the members are fun to play with.

    I feel that you're just upset because you followed a bunch of people after some failed attempt at a coupe and now hold resentment since the work you did is all wasted now, instead of seeing your own wrong or mistake against your own personal advancement you decide to go on these trash hole forums and try to call out a solid institution for being a failure to your expectations when all you were from the beginning was a mindless sheep doing what everyone else told you to do, now you're upset over where it led you. Now for the future you can know, don't do that, and an I'm sorry can go a lot further than you think it can.


    StineDrystin
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    edited March 4
    I'm not upset, and I didn't take part in a coup. I would prefer that my analysis that I've spent days thinking about and discussing with dozens of other players not be dismissively disregarded as
    Ultra said:


    I feel that you're just upset because you followed a bunch of people after some failed attempt at a coupe and now hold resentment since the work you did is all wasted now, instead of seeing your own wrong and literally more and more ad hominems do I actually need to quote them all?

    I'm not resentful, and what I posted is only partially tied to the possible quality of the guild. Not the least of it being that the class is locked away with less freedom than almost any other class in the game.

    I'm glad you enjoy the game and the Dominion! I stand by everything I said.
    You stare implacably at Abhorash, and he shrinks from your gaze.
  • DrystinDrystin Member Posts: 94 ✭✭✭
    Welcome to the coup kids club @Tetchta! *fistbump*  :D
    TetchtaAloli
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    edited March 5
    As an aside I just learned today (after posting this) that apparently the Primus player by default gets a coded seat on the Bloodloch council, which seems like its own can of worms. But it also seems like something that should be mentioned here, because that seems like a pretty egregious undermining of player org autonomy.
    You stare implacably at Abhorash, and he shrinks from your gaze.
  • IazamatIazamat Member Posts: 250 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5
    We've been complaining about the Primus OL mechanic for a while. Last I heard, they have no plans on changing it because of "lore" - an odd conceit, since it had to be retconned in to begin with.

    If we were going to get a new political system (a la Duiran), I don't think there would be many complaints, but as it is, it leaves people upset. 
    TetchtaZaila
  • SaritaSarita Empress of Bahir'an The Pillars of the EarthMember Posts: 783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That particular thing was supposed to have been changed a while ago, IIRC.
  • AmrynnAmrynn Member Posts: 4
    Tetchta said:

    HOW TO FIX THEM

    This, I feel, is arguably simpler and less long-winded than the above, I hope.

    1. Cut a hole in the box Delete the Dominion: gone. It shouldn't be a thing anymore.
    2. Make Vampirism a true subrace pseudoclass like Shapeshifters
    3. Let all vampires with the skill embrace anyone they want.
    4. Get rid of peerage as a coded thing.
    5. Reduce the significance of the Primus/Progenitor thing by just, like, I don't know, killing off Abhorash or something.
    6. Maybe even make an NPC that can give people vampirism. I mean, newbies can make themselves undead ffs.
    I think the instinct with the problems with Vampire Houses was to pack everyone together, when it should have been to nuke everything from orbit and open up vampirism entirely. Instead it's ended up one of the most restrictive classes to acquire. I even, daresay, think the current set-up is likely to drive new players away from the game. They go "oh boy, I can be a vampire!" and then end up funneled into one of the least-appealing guilds in the entire game. I mean, in all honesty, I almost quit the game again due to my experiences with new vampirism. If I hadn't been reached out to by the Carnifex and learned that the game has sooooo much to offer still, it probably would've been it for me.

    In any case, these are my thoughts. I really think Vamps are overdue for a revamp.

    Just as an outsidery opinion. (Played IREs for years, been thinking about dipping toes in here and the daily credits announcement sold me)

    If the idea is to model them on shapeshifters, while also having concerns about new player experience, for me shapeshifters are a bit frustrating personally.

    You look at the website and you can see them listed, but you can't actually pick them when you go to make a character. It involves some digging to actually find out which real newbies may not actually do.

    As a unique draw, there seems like there could be negative impacts for newbies if the guild structure isn't there? Like knowledge gaps and stuff.
  • TetchtaTetchta Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    Amrynn said:

    Tetchta said:

    HOW TO FIX THEM

    This, I feel, is arguably simpler and less long-winded than the above, I hope.

    1. Cut a hole in the box Delete the Dominion: gone. It shouldn't be a thing anymore.
    2. Make Vampirism a true subrace pseudoclass like Shapeshifters
    3. Let all vampires with the skill embrace anyone they want.
    4. Get rid of peerage as a coded thing.
    5. Reduce the significance of the Primus/Progenitor thing by just, like, I don't know, killing off Abhorash or something.
    6. Maybe even make an NPC that can give people vampirism. I mean, newbies can make themselves undead ffs.
    I think the instinct with the problems with Vampire Houses was to pack everyone together, when it should have been to nuke everything from orbit and open up vampirism entirely. Instead it's ended up one of the most restrictive classes to acquire. I even, daresay, think the current set-up is likely to drive new players away from the game. They go "oh boy, I can be a vampire!" and then end up funneled into one of the least-appealing guilds in the entire game. I mean, in all honesty, I almost quit the game again due to my experiences with new vampirism. If I hadn't been reached out to by the Carnifex and learned that the game has sooooo much to offer still, it probably would've been it for me.

    In any case, these are my thoughts. I really think Vamps are overdue for a revamp.

    Just as an outsidery opinion. (Played IREs for years, been thinking about dipping toes in here and the daily credits announcement sold me)

    If the idea is to model them on shapeshifters, while also having concerns about new player experience, for me shapeshifters are a bit frustrating personally.

    You look at the website and you can see them listed, but you can't actually pick them when you go to make a character. It involves some digging to actually find out which real newbies may not actually do.

    As a unique draw, there seems like there could be negative impacts for newbies if the guild structure isn't there? Like knowledge gaps and stuff.
    Sure. That was supposed to be what houses were, but I'm sure there was merit to dissolving the Undead House system. That said, and this is anecdotal and purely a one-case situation, but when I first started, the mystique of having to discover stuff like that was something that drew me in.

    In any case, I'd just be satisfied if they actually just made it more like other classes when it came to multiclassing by letting any vampire sire/embrace any other vampire. As it is right now, it's the most restrictive class in the game for no reason, and that one player randomly can decide how an entire server gets class seems pretty unfair to me no matter how you slice it.
    You stare implacably at Abhorash, and he shrinks from your gaze.
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