Admin too "trigger happy"?

Osmond

Are some of the admin a bit too trigger happy when it comes to zapping? The other day Haern had said something about shutting up (not directed at me personally, I don't remember who was bickering over shouts at the time) and right after that I had shouted "Don't you have some trees to hug or something?" in reply to something Tyrak had said.  Now I hadn't seen Haern shout anything, honestly I probably still wouldn't have cared even if I had, and was zapped for it.  Now the zapping doesn't hurt too much, just another trip to the mirror, I've gotten used to it, but this is a role playing mud, and is that the extent of the level admin are going to "role play" in a situation like that?   I'm not all that into RP myself, not any good at it, I like the combat mechanics in Aetolia, but I really think automatically jumping to zapping a person is kinda silly.  But that's just me, what do you think?

Azrael

Just given what you noted, if Haern shouted something about shutting up, and Tyrak shouted something, and then you shouted something about hugging trees, if I were Haern I would have felt that the shout was directed at me since Haern is all nature'ish n stuff.

I actually love seeing the admin jump in and zap folks. There's another thread where someone posted them trash talking the critters up in Hashan and big Maggie zapped her. I thought it was fairly epic.

I liked to see more RP zaps since XP loss from death means absolutely nothing anymore.

Hadoryu

That ... seems like exactly what Haern should've done. You didn't notice that shout, but you told Haern to go hug trees. How exactly do you figure that should have gone over?

Fenrir

He was yelling at Tyrak to hug trees, not Haern.

Haven

Hadoryu said:

That ... seems like exactly what Haern should've done. You didn't notice that shout, but you told Haern to go hug trees. How exactly do you figure that should have gone over?

I think he meant that he was shouting in response to Tyrak's comment at the time rather than Haern's as he didn't see Haern's shout.

Regardless of what he meant though, I do have to admit that I sometimes do wish the Divine players would take the time to engage the regular players (particularly the offender) with role-played emotes more often in these situations prior to the zappage to better convey the divine character's outrage or what have you as opposed to going straight for the zap. In my opinion, those have a much more lasting impact in general than a "Wham. Bam. Forget you ma'am" zap. But despite the wish for something more involved sometimes, I understand the why. Like in Osmond's instance, sometimes it's just appropriate or sufficient. Sometimes they got other things going on but acknowledge they need to make a quick presence. Sometimes they just want to kill you.

As an example, my main character has had many conflicts with the Divine over the years that has resulted in a painful or a brutal close encounter with death. In one instance, my character took it upon himself to "teach Duiran a lesson" and set most if not all of the forests in the world on fire because he disapproved of some of Duiran's actions like their tolerance of one of their leaders being in a relationship of sorts with an Artificer from Spinesreach or some of their more prominent members fighting alongside a rogue necromancer against Bloodloch in a leyline skirmish. I, the player, understand the circumstances for some of that but my character tends to be more than extreme and isn't known for much compromise or forgiveness. Regardless, I fully expected the consequence of multiple deaths that were coming. However, I was a little disappointed that I didn't get any sort of role-play with the Divine in question until I took the initiative. It was just: Instadeath. Respawn and wait a few minutes for some kind of interaction. Then instadeath again. At that point I thought perhaps the onus was on me to initiate something more meaningful despite my actions that started the whole arc and sent the Divine a tell where we interacted briefly before Haven got his third and final execution.

Whereas in another instance my character had corrupted a loyal high priestess and Order Head and the goddess came down and made Haven suffer for a while for his crimes by permanently branding him with Her mark before burning him alive from the inside out and killing him. Or another instance where Haven  kidnapped a priest in an effort to goad two Orders into War for his real master at the time Severn. Severn disapproved of the tactic at first because He thought Haven had truly converted to Arion during his infiltration of the Order and meant to strike at Him through His Lady Niuri and so rather than out right kill him, He beat Haven to an inch of his life during an interrogation!

tl;dr While I do sometimes wish the divine players didn't go straight for the zap, all in all, I think they're fine. None of this is to say that they do not already do this or that their decisions were bad or I hold anything against them for when they go straight for a zap it. I just wish that the role-play was more frequent or common than it currently is. In that same token, I also understand they are busy folks too with their own lives to deal with and in-game projects to complete and subjects to pay attention to and we players should just appreciate what we get when we get it.

Edit: Damn spoilers being all wonky! ><

Lin

You guys clearly don't remember the last time Omei was active. She was zapping (X has been slain by the Midnight Hunt) someone every half hour, I swear.

Damonicus

Omei by far was one of the worst offenders. Haern does rp more than zap. Previous Chak did not zap much as far as I recall either. But, sometimes you just need to slap or zap someone to get things through their head. Plus, deathsights are always fun.

Fenrir

Don't ever complain about being zapped. Imperian had the gods ability to Zap players completely revoked. Gods turned into (literally) something that had players insulting them, telling them to shut up and go away and even taunting over Market.

And y'know what happened? Not a god damn thing, because people had whined about being Zapped a time or two.

And now look at it. The gods were killed off and removed.

Haven

Fenrir said:

Don't ever complain about being zapped. Imperian had the gods ability to Zap players completely revoked. Gods turned into (literally) something that had players insulting them, telling them to shut up and go away and even taunting over Market.

And y'know what happened? Not a god damn thing, because people had whined about being Zapped a time or two.

And now look at it. The gods were killed off and removed.

No offense to the Imperian playerbase but I think despite our faults our Aetolian community handles itself far, far better than that one.

Fenrir

I'm also not trying to insult anyone, but lets not forget that Aetolia also had their Rage threads closed for the exact same reasons as the Imperian community - an inability to manage itself.


My point was able to be boiled down to 'You don't know what you've got until it's gone.' so take that for what you will.

Rivas

Admin are not too zap-happy. I've seen a batch of admin that was zap-happy, and these guys are FINE.

 

Whoever you were shouting at (it really doesn't matter), there are two important things to point out:

1) Haern could have interpreted, based on the timing of the shouts (that you did or didn't see) that you were insulting him (with a very nature-appropriate insults, I might add)

2) It LOOKED like you were probably shouting at Haern, which is just as bad.

 

 

It's also important to point out the difference in "Admin being trigger happy" and "Gods playing their roles". Mortals shouldn't EVER expect to insult gods and get away with it. Ever. THEY. ARE. GODS. Of -course- they're gonna smackabitch down to put us in our places when we get uppity, it's usually deserved and it's ALWAYS awesome.

 

Hadoryu

I know he meant he was shouting in response to Tyrak. What I meant was that because he didn't see Haern's shout, it LOOKED like he was actually shouting to Haern, which I can't imagine could warrant anything other than a zapping in response. Like Rivas just said.

Angwe

Yeah, I remember that shout. OOCly, I thought it was pretty balsy to taunt Haern like that. Got a chuckle out of the requisite zap.

Osmond

I kinda put Haern on the spot here, and I should have said more than I did.  I didn't mean that Haern himself is some OMG Zappit admin, I feel in that particular case that zap was silly, but I don't see him bully people all the time or anything.  What I was trying to say is that that isn't the only time I've seen a player get zapped for something that should have been handled otherwise.  God gets pissed? Why not send a band of mobs after that player, I'm not talking 10K damage per hit mobs, something manageable, for instance against me as a level 100 Teradrim send in a group of mobs around the might of the average Fengard mob.  Doing something like that gives the player the opportunity to live if they play their cards right fighting off the mobs, and gives their friends/organization mates the opportunity to step in and get involved as well.  That right there would create something bigger, Haern sends a pack of rabid dogs or something after me at Inner Gate and a few Spireans step in to help me, now he gets REALLY mad and the conflict can evolve into something more fun.  Zapping is just stupid IMO, it has it's place, but save it for griefers not someone just playing the game.

P.S. Tyrak is Duiranite BTW, and has Os has had issues with him in the past as well.  So really, it made just as much sense I was shouting at Tyrak as it would have if I had been shouting at Haern.  And I thought Haern was all about animals and hunting and stuff.

Hadoryu

Sure, Gods could use punishments other than zap. But sending mobs, for instance, requires a lot of extra work. Making them manageable takes even more, a lot of which is guessing. And the result is disruptive, because you're probably not sitting in an open field with nobody else around. Zapping is simple, effective and doesn't require a ton of extra coding work. And let's be honest, does a silly shout warrant this sort of work to provide a response? If you'd gone to lengths to RP pissing on his shrines and spilling superglue on his godly throne, I'm sure you'd get something other than a simple zap.

Caspien

Old man out of the bushes here, but once, long ago, Haern sent a bunch of mobs to hound a player who upset him for a week or so... the backlash wasn't pretty.

Edhain

I remember not getting zapped when I thought a zap would be warranted, back in the day. When you're making an effort to have some serious roleplay they tend to be more creative, like Hadoryu said. 

Valenae

Hate to be a tool but I agree that it should just be chalked up to bad communication on your part. Speech generates reality so when Haern observes you making a negative comment against the lifestyle he champions, you shouldn't be surprised if that offends him. If the outcome you wanted was just for the other person to be offended then perhaps you should be mindful of the way you're communicating. I would say the zap was warranted and I don't understand what you're hoping to get out of this thread.

Osmond

Hadoryu said:

Sure, Gods could use punishments other than zap. But sending mobs, for instance, requires a lot of extra work. Making them manageable takes even more, a lot of which is guessing. And the result is disruptive, because you're probably not sitting in an open field with nobody else around. Zapping is simple, effective and doesn't require a ton of extra coding work. And let's be honest, does a silly shout warrant this sort of work to provide a response? If you'd gone to lengths to RP pissing on his shrines and spilling superglue on his godly throne, I'm sure you'd get something other than a simple zap.

If a hacker can log into a complex game like DayZ and spawn an army of zombies in a person camp then when bored of that teleport the entire server into a big metal box with nothing but a pistol then i HIGHLY doubt spawning a few text dogs is a giant leap for man kind.  And if the admin aren't willing to do that, then just let your ego down and ignore little stuff, save your muscle flexing for griefers, for people that deserve it.

Hadoryu

I'm sorry dude, but that is a completely goddamn ridiculous thing to say.

Rivas

Osmond said:

Hadoryu said:

Sure, Gods could use punishments other than zap. But sending mobs, for instance, requires a lot of extra work. Making them manageable takes even more, a lot of which is guessing. And the result is disruptive, because you're probably not sitting in an open field with nobody else around. Zapping is simple, effective and doesn't require a ton of extra coding work. And let's be honest, does a silly shout warrant this sort of work to provide a response? If you'd gone to lengths to RP pissing on his shrines and spilling superglue on his godly throne, I'm sure you'd get something other than a simple zap.

If a hacker can log into a complex game like DayZ and spawn an army of zombies in a person camp then when bored of that teleport the entire server into a big metal box with nothing but a pistol then i HIGHLY doubt spawning a few text dogs is a giant leap for man kind.  And if the admin aren't willing to do that, then just let your ego down and ignore little stuff, save your muscle flexing for griefers, for people that deserve it.

...maybe you should just accept the possibility that you don't EXACTLY know what it takes to create/program/customize mobs here in Aetolia (or in any IRE mud, for that matter), and just back away from the keyboard. Seriously.

Azrael

Think I've read more cursing in this thread than the last 10 other threads I've read combined this morning...

But to stay on topic...can we see more zaps in game plz k thx!

Osmond

Cute, they are getting mad.

Rivas

I think, when the original thread creator starts trolling the people who are responding to him, it's probably time to shut down the thread.

Kiyotan

Done.