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Can I murder all of you?
I understand that Aetolia is much more RP focused than it is PK focused, though from what I've read there is a small but dedicated 1v1 core of players as well as a much broader Group Focus on PvP dynamic.
What I'd like to know is how strict are the rules regarding killing people. In the past and in other IRE games words like 'cause' were thrown about and it would seem that the restrictions on PK have been loosened up a bit during this modern stage of the game. I'm not talking about mindless griefing where you just kill people randomly - that can and would quickly result in a leafy demise. Having said that, from my experience in other IRE games it's pretty easy to have a legitimate reason to kill someone ranging from people running their mouth, attacking you in groups, all sorts of things, so that if a person was so inclined, they'd have plenty of people to attack while they were out and about outside of their city.
Does this carry over into Aetolia? I've read posts where they state that the PvP is very synthetic and automated (not automated in terms of coding/scripts). Just wondering if it's worth creating a character and really going for it in terms of a PK career.
With that in mind, there's a BUNCH of new classes/reworked old classes now. If I did get into things, I'd like a class that can bash up to Endgame unartifacted just for funzies. Are there any classes you'd specifically recommend for that? Note: I said unartifacted. I'd assuredly buy at MINIMUM the no brainer lesson package. I also assume Membership and probably more credits for lessons/gold/equipment.
What I'd like to know is how strict are the rules regarding killing people. In the past and in other IRE games words like 'cause' were thrown about and it would seem that the restrictions on PK have been loosened up a bit during this modern stage of the game. I'm not talking about mindless griefing where you just kill people randomly - that can and would quickly result in a leafy demise. Having said that, from my experience in other IRE games it's pretty easy to have a legitimate reason to kill someone ranging from people running their mouth, attacking you in groups, all sorts of things, so that if a person was so inclined, they'd have plenty of people to attack while they were out and about outside of their city.
Does this carry over into Aetolia? I've read posts where they state that the PvP is very synthetic and automated (not automated in terms of coding/scripts). Just wondering if it's worth creating a character and really going for it in terms of a PK career.
With that in mind, there's a BUNCH of new classes/reworked old classes now. If I did get into things, I'd like a class that can bash up to Endgame unartifacted just for funzies. Are there any classes you'd specifically recommend for that? Note: I said unartifacted. I'd assuredly buy at MINIMUM the no brainer lesson package. I also assume Membership and probably more credits for lessons/gold/equipment.
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You can not kill someone purely because they are X (a vampire, part of a guild, etc)
You can not kill someone for defending in a city raid.
Killing non-defenders during city raids is not okay.
Baiting for cause is frowned upon. Being overly petty in terms of cause can come with community censure, as will excessive raiding (e.g. multi-hour long raids, etc).
The synthetic nature of combat is likely due to the leyline and pk 'zones', which provide a clear opportunity for combat (with an aggression aura that is visible to others, which clears up confusion as to whether someone participated or not). 1v1 for valid reasons is still perfectly acceptable and welcome. There is also the Sect for 1v1 dueling.
Our endgame is probably the easiest to achieve across IRE. It has been some time since I was down there, but classes do not *require* artifacts for PvE, although the convenience they provide is often desirable. To be competitive in combat is another discussion.
Spirit: Luminary maybe, Sentinel, Zealot
Any EQ classes need a crown to reach max speed and that is 850 cr or so. Avoid Ascendril/Sciomancer/Shaman/Archivist/vampire for pk IMO if you want to cheap out.
PK tends to be synthetic here, kill x because aura, or in Sect, not because you have a reason. Non aura pk gets people issued kind of often, even if the issue gets dismissed, because people aren't used to it.
If you want a game where you can pk people often and almost constantly for reasons, Achaea is your best bet- Aetolia winds up focusing more on slice of life and daily interaction RP than overarching combat. You won't see raids here like at all, as it is heavily discouraged mechanically. Lessers happen on a timer, orrery in a date range, and there is a war on right now but it's mostly a gankfest if anyone has aura.
Sect is the 1v1 duel arena deal, with rankings and points etc. But do know combat is balanced around omnitrans- a lot of artibash can happen if your resists aren't high. You'll also want trans survival and avoidance, because no dodge is death.
Group pk with no arties is fine though there is a huge focus on teamwork and coordination so a good system with code that 1) teams well and 2) calls affs will get you far. Sunder does it for life side and shadow is on Sunder some and homebrew for a lot.
The word 'cause' is thrown around almost any time someone gets killed. Some players are super chill and will let one or two deaths for something fairly meaningless slide, but any more than that and you're likely to get issued. You can kill anyone once without punishment from the game, but not without punishment from the playerbase.
Because this game is more RP focused than some others, there's lots of noncoms who will be very irritable OOCly if you kill them (even if you have cause) instead of RPIng out a conclusion to whatever cause. A lot of the PK-inclined playerbase has a very strong sense of 'combat honour' in terms of who, when and why you kill others. So, even if you won't get in trouble with admin, you're going to face a lot of player-based scrutiny.
That said, it is fairly easy for cause to come about. You aren't likely to encounter being attacked by a group of people, because non-sect(sect is essential PK minigame which is duels and does not incur cause) PK is almost entirely in those combat zones mentioned above. People will run their mouth plenty (my character is probably one of the more infamous for getting herself killed for being a twat) and any sort of 'hostile' action against you is considered legitimate cause, and people will do those to you all the time, friends and enemies alike.
I particularly liked this line from Zaila's post- "Because this game is more RP focused than some others, there's lots of noncoms who will be very irritable OOCly if you kill them (even if you have cause) instead of RPIng out a conclusion to whatever cause."
My response would be that it's perfectly valid for my character to kill someone he has cause against as roleplaying to conclusion. Not saying that will happen, just that I'm kicking around ideas for a personality to base him/her around. Murderking and nothing but wouldn't go far, I think.
All in all, thank you to the three of you for taking the time to respond. It was very helpful and informative. I appreciate it very much.
Killing PKing someone over and over for the same reason will likely get you issued and punished unless the person you're PKing keeps goading you or doing things that warrant it.
PKing someone for simply being living/undead or a member of a certain org just because is also a good way to piss off everyone.
PKing someone for mouthing off is fine, but be careful of how often you do it and why. If you PKed everyone for every time they talked back to you or for every perceived sleight, you'll probably find yourself rogue very quickly.
In general, you'll want to exercise some restraint in PK, otherwise you risk becoming ostracized by the playerbase. I can think of a few people in recent history that no longer play because they were seen as an annoyance by a lot of players and no one would entertain them with interaction whatsoever, or no one ever took them seriously as a character.
Aetolia is a very RP heavy game, but also a fairly small and tight knit community that tends to police itself. When you play, and especially if you PK a lot, there's a fair bit of PR management involved. If people, you know, actually like you, there's less likelihood of people getting pissed off at you, or if they do, they don't stay pissed off for long.
That said, we don't see it much and not many share my point of view. You can push consequences for actions but as people have warned if you are viewed as a problem by the playerbase, you'll inevitably be heavily targeted and find yourself alienated.
In this game I have stumbled upon heavy mentality that people, especially those who are high profile do react frivolously in their dealings with other characters and when the payday for their actions (i.e. consequence) comes knocking on the door they do poorly. Stories do not have to go with "an eye for an eye" mentality all the time. Personally we should not play a game with the worry of "Pissing people off" or "Whether this course of action will be received well by the OOC playerbase or not" It is detrimental to certain roles we wish to play.
As a RP-K player, I would advise not to read PK rules like a holy book but instead play the story of your character however you want. You can trust me in that, people of this game provide ample amount of reasons to get killed outside sanctioned zones.
If you don't manage your reputation well, and enough people find you irritating, you'll find yourself playing a largely solo game, which isn't fun.
And for your information, I neither play a solo game nor having a lack of fun.
Otherwise, I would be playing something else, am I right?
I've also seen people troll for getting pk'd with systems paused and win the issue (they got @Trikal one time doing that).
It's hard to draw the line as an admin, and it's also kind of hard to figure out where the line is. Just have a good reason for killing someone and don't go overboard and you're probably alright.
For example, Rhyot has killed at least 4 Bloodlochians (citizens of his own city) for hugging him. Hes also killed/attacked people (ive lost a few fights with the wrong people) for dismissing him when he politely requests that people mind their language as he vastly dislikes vulgar language.
Just find your character and make your role play behind your character solid. The PK cause will come after you solidify your character.
So, I see this as a good system. Insulting someone to the degree that Mord likes to frequently do SHOULD cause those on the other side to weigh the insult and consider if escalating to violence is worth the risk of further escalation and possibly war. Nowhere in this scenario did I feel the need to issue.
As normal living humans, death means something to us. For Aetolians, blessed by Varian's
crueltygenerosity to never truly die unless we accept it, death shouldn't mean as much as it does. No matter the circumstances, we continue to approach the mirror and reform, or if you're one of the undead, the earth rebuilds you. Death should be regarded as a nasty injury and a huge inconvenience. Or should it?Despite the infallible mirror that resurrects us perfectly, people still take death super serious and will attempt to avoid it at any cost.
Despite trying to avoid it, they will seldom roleplay from a position of weakness and complain when a confrontation turns to violence and death. Not in their favor.
AND final despite, knowing all of the above, most will refuse to settle things via roleplay. I can only speculate, but I've personally been told by someone that despite trying to avoid violence, name-calling, and generally assured death for them, they do not owe me RP in any form, even if they started the conflict. Which is true, I am entitled to nothing from another player.
I would like to say that the game is conflict driven, with heavy roleplay elements. When you deny someone avenues, such as roleplay or by escalating the situation, do not complain when you are attacked. Likewise, do not listen to complaints when you have followed your character to the best of your ability and are not knowingly using that excuse to be toxic or abusive to the community. It has to be a two-way street.
Roleplaying a serial killer or vampire hunter might seem fun, but this game doesn't end and you can't keep up certain roleplays before you enter abuse and absurd territories. Try to avoid flat, one-dimensional characters and you won't have a problem with player-killing.
@Mordion We all have a Galadriel story, here's mine: I was standing next to Tatia and trying to get her attention to talk to her. The previous day there was a light bit of roleplay and I was hoping to spark that up again. Galadriel walked in and had his howls up and they were hitting me. I told him he was being rude. I didn't have an aura, but I was in the Mitrine so I figured 'fine, I should expect attack'. But, since I wasn't being violent or hostile, I figured he'd take the hint and leave. He didn't, attack me, I attacked back and after a bit, I won. I remained where I was and continued to try and talk to Tatia (She was afk the whole time) before heading out. Lea will never personally jump to violence. She'd much rather talk or roleplay it out, but most often she gets insults or silence or violence. Which is fine, but again, keep in mind a two-way street.
Currently the draconian PK rules and imbalanced tilt towards organizational and identity-based irresponsibility dismisses several roles:
- Bandit, rebel, brigand: You cannot play because PK rules will not allow you to be a menace to an organization along your RP stance.
- Mercenary guard, protector of weak: You cannot play because PK rules will stifle player-based dangers. Hence there will be no reason to hire a guard/mercenary character.
- Clans of Variety: Because apparently you cannot declare something and then retaliate on behalf of that. So the promise of death cults, noble houses and such is a lie. Hence cannot retaliate against other clans or organizations.
- Vampire Hunter: This is a game with vampires without vampire hunters. So go figure. You can be a RP vampire hunter, but you are strictly discouraged from actually hunting vampires.
- Witch-Hunter: You cannot play a witch-hunter and try to eradicate dubious practices because the moment you kill an actual evil practitioner...you might get an issue to deal with and that might be taken as a random killing.
Along the roles being unable to have a breathing room, one of the major problems with this game is that while small pockets of people (circles) can do all kinds of bureaucratical hell treatment, people antagonizing them cannot retaliate and are bound by myriad of rules.
It should be perfectly viable for a vampire to lock some maiden with his gaze and drain all the blood. PK or RP, that should not matter. It would naturally pave the way for Witch-Hunters/Mercenary Guards and etc. That is how you create a dark world where people work together to deal with imminent threats. When people take responsibility as groups and treat both RP and PK equally, things improve.
Currently Aetolia is bedecked with safety nets over safety nets and it leads to one-dimensional organizations and characters already. Their lore sheet is different yes, but they are all governed with same old ways and they can only posture their roles but cannot act upon them. Might as well allow vampires to sparkle under sun at this rate.
- Bandit, rebel, brigand: You cannot play because PK rules will not allow you to be a menace to an organization along your RP stance.
- Mercenary guard, protector of weak: You cannot play because PK rules will stifle player-based dangers. Hence there will be no reason to hire a guard/mercenary character.
- Clans of Variety: Because apparently you cannot declare something and then retaliate on behalf of that. So the promise of death cults, noble houses and such is a lie. Hence cannot retaliate against other clans or organizations."
Of course, one can realize the game is meant to be a binary fight of Good vs Evil, or more specifically in our case Spirit vs Shadow. It is POSSIBLE to play third party, but not recommended and certainly not admin-supported. Stop making the game something it's not?
"- Vampire Hunter: This is a game with vampires without vampire hunters. So go figure. You can be a RP vampire hunter, but you are strictly discouraged from actually hunting vampires."
Enorian's shtick, more or less. They hunt more than vampires. Of course, 'hunt' in this case isn't as rabid and fanatical as you so clearly wish to see, which is just griefing the shit out of newbies and low-level (skill or exp) fighters.
"- Witch-Hunter: You cannot play a witch-hunter and try to eradicate dubious practices because the moment you kill an actual evil practitioner...you might get an issue to deal with and that might be taken as a random killing."
Name me one class that doesn't have access to some form of magic. Go on. I'll wait.
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Oh, sorry, waited so long I dozed off. Where was I? Right.
In short, you've been with us for 16 months now. Clearly, long enough to learn how the game works, what the status quo is, what is and isn't allowed by both social convention and hard code. So why do you keep attacking those who have IGNOREd you, those who haven't even touched the game in months, those who are trying to help you through RP avenues, and those who just want absolutely unicorn-all to do with you?
Hi.
1. Umm, you realize the game looks binary because;
- Balance concerns for classes.
- Having no faith in playerbase to prevent a city from getting overwhelmed. Hence diplomacy is very limited among cities. 3 v 1, 1 v 2 v 1 kind of scenarios seemingly have no room right now.
- Lack of direct conflict reasons between Tether cities (BL vs SP or EN vs DU) which pushes cities behind their element always.
2. Witch-Hunter does not necessarily mean Magic-Hunter. But yeah as usual you are prone to read what you envisioned in your mind, rather then the text.
3. No one said griefing newbies or lowbies. But there is a sick "issue-people culture" in this game. If you cannot RP and PK, then issue...that is right.
4. Clearly times change and the new players join to the game. It is within their right to ask for more options provided rather then conservatively accepting things as they are. This holier-than-thou attitude of old players push the new players away from them and their organizations to begin with. Because something is not Admin supported, does not mean they cannot have room. I mean do we have to RP our characters shitting into a hole with the Admin support even? Looks like you would be advocate of such things.
My opinion on the conflict system issues in the game: The admin want one thing, (1v1v1v1 city battles), the players want another, (2v2). The issue is there is a polarizing divide between the factions, that of shadow and light, and any conflict that sees infighting will mean one of the two sides win. Players realize this right away and tend to unite out of necessity rather than desire (see:Ophidians). I still believe that removing Ashtan is the catalyst and that adding a new city along with a newly revamped class or some other major change to the game would bring in more players or allow more players to gravitate towards something less severe in ideology and focus on the grander conflicts.
Back to the concept of 'Killing whomever you want whenever'...
@Kalak Before you respond, just consider that your opinion is not a fact. You may believe it strongly and feel you have evidence to support it, but it is just an opinion and one that isn't shared by the majority of the community. At least, the community that responded to this post.
I've tried to convey this to you in another thread but I will try again here. The part you quoted me on was filled with examples to convey my point. They weren't meant to be taken as absolutes. Trying to argue around my examples is arguing in bad faith or I failed to convey the point.
If I understand your point, you're trying to argue that certain character archetypes are impossible because it is assumed that any form of playerkilling will result in outside game interference in the form of an issue and will stop the roleplay entirely. I will reassure you that this is simply not true. If you apply these archetypes to Aetolia and avoid trying to bring another version of them from another game world here you will have no issue with the Admin or the playerbase.
I will assume there will be an objection to this so let me try to explain first.
The world of Aetolia is not the world of Middle-Earth or Krynn or Skyrim. It is unique to itself, with its own history, practices, and definitions of these archetypes. As an example, let me try to illustrate a death cult: You form your death cult and go on a killing rampage (slaughtering denizens and villages) and when players come to stop you, you kill them too. Then you kill them for trying to stop you and repeat until you can't sustain this anymore and build your strength for the next push. Your cult would have to understand that the mirror exists, that death is temporary, and the idea that 'when I kill someone, they come back' is a thing. You would need some substance to really keep things goes because why are you bothering? People come back. The archetype doesn't exactly work in Aetolia because the rules are different.
Shallow roleplay will always be met with negativity and will leave you with nothing to defend yourself when your reasons are lacking when weighed against your actions.
If you like the idea of a cult, you will need to understand the purpose of a cult and weave an ideology that fits within Aetolia in order to sustain it. Let's say that your cult members are known to become enraged when they see shameless public displays of affection and are known to lash out. Let's say that is because they were formed around hate and any act of the opposite is an insult to their goals. Let's say that their goals are to spread misery and disdain wherever they are and as much as they can. Now, let us also remind ourselves that cults have to function in the real world too. So as a cult leader, you would make it so your followers know how to hide, how to blend in, and how to not become cut off from the supplies and support they'll need to accomplish their goals.
It's a complex and difficult roleplay, but it's definitely possible if you begin with the world you're in and model everything around it. Limiting aspects included.
Attempting to label archetypes and explain why they're not possible will not work in Aetolia. Archetypes are just guides for character roles, meant to instantly convey some understanding without detailed explanation. Aetolia has a lot of these they've created within the world, which I would argue is the real purpose of guilds. These are not actual rules for a playstyle. Trying to define your own is also possible, but you must work within the scope of what you're given.
The Ascendril guild -DID NOT EXIST- years and years ago. The Magi were forced to settle down after neutrality was removed from the game. A small faction sought to be good and was kicked out of the guild and spend real life years roleplaying as some underdog sect of light mages until the admin decided to give them a guild. (That's an extremely short and lacking detail story). The same thing happened with the DARU who tried to overrule the ideology of the Sentaari and were given the Daru guild and a new type of class.
If people come back, why is the outrage for being sent to the mirror? Unless it is done excessively like 2-3 times repetitively, it should be of not much importance due to that logic. Basically losing a meager amount of XP once or twice a RL week will not make you as angry as getting your Titan blown up or your corporate assets being stolen in Eve Online. Furthermore that would encourage group activity outside as a form of protection and give real incentives to hire certain roles. I mean why all the non-com damsels of Enorian walk into the deepest recesses of evil places with no knight to protect them? That to me, appears as a weak form of gameplay...because they know no vampire will suck them dry, no enemy will ambush them and no bandit can cut their path. They are protected by the grace of rules and Admin.
There could be definitely a timer for people to be PKed in intervals so people can dish out PK measures along their RP measures without thinking about "Oh will I get issued for this?", "Oh, is it okay to do this?", "Oh will my immersion be broken by Admin?". Perhaps before we as a community should stop being salty about getting PKed and actually play our roles to fullest. Treat cities, hideouts etc. as relatively safe zones while treating everywhere else a potentially dangerous place.
Personally it would be a better course of action if admin allowed everything to be dealt ICly, whether it is PK or RP. You need protection? IC measure is to hire a bodyguard and pay him. You want to avoid any potential ambush? Be aware of your surroundings and do not AFK in the middle of nowhere. Your city lacks PvP players? Then be diplomatical and do not try to draw enemies. Or hire protectors with some of the wealth you are sitting on.
After all I never suggest repeated killing of people in short burst of time, I do not advocate killing of newbies either, rather I prefer if people actually played their roles and explored all IC options before resorting to Admin interference. That is simple as that.
Case in point, a quote from the death sequence: "A Voice fills your mind, echoing in the farthest recesses of your consciousness, "Know that I know You. Know that you are a part of Me, and that My Will is yours. Know that your story is My story, for you are of Me. Know too that your story is not yet complete." And with that, the mirror abruptly goes blank, its polished surface reflecting nothing at all. You collapse, with relief and with joy, for you know now that your Creator Wills you to live again. Exhausted, your consciousness rapidly slides away..."
and then
"Sitting up from your supine position, you glance at your body and realize it is healed and whole once again. Still reeling in wonder from your experience, you quietly give thanks to Varian, the Celestine for the gift of life."
Granted, not too many people lean back on this kind of RP, but the lore exists.
As a side note, I've had RP sessions in the past where gods have basically said what @Teani did. Just being able to go pray at the mirror doesn't mean Varian will let someone come back. I've seen that used as a reason for named NPCs just completely staying dead during events, and heard it used as a justification for undead being superior when it comes to dying and being certain that they won't stay dead for long.
you can certainly try >:3c