War, war what is it good for? Missions!

Xenia

Hey! I've enjoyed this conflict system a lot. As it draws near to a month I've developed a few questions about the missions. I figure others have as well and want to encourage anyone to post questions they have. If anything, maybe we can crowd source to figure out the answer.

Without further ado, my own questions:

1) New Missions
Are new missions being developed, are you all open to mission ideas being presented?

2) Changes to Missions availability and acceptance:
-Can appreciate this being a problem, but 3 missions a day is not enough. This punishes the participation ability of those who can't log in daily to accept. Is this intentional or can it be reworked to incorporate this faction of players in a more meaningful way?

3) Collection missions
The grassland:river/freshwater ratio --I'm not the highest ranking explorer there seems to be an inequality in number of rooms available. Can someone confirm if there's a discrepancy in number of room types world wide?

4) Extermination Mission
There are limited mobs apart from the ones that spawn in ruins, the small collection of Ophidian and Impire mobs. The mitrine seem to have no extermination mobs outside the ruins unless you farm the warriors that protect the war chief. Am I overlooking something or are there considerably less Mitrines to kill for this mission? Do Mitrine Outriders exist outside of being divisions?

Teani

For number 3: I have noticed that there are a few river (and a few scarce grassland) rooms that don't have any plants at all. Some never have, so I doubt it's because it's been harvested down to nothing. 

Tiur

1: We don't mind ideas! There are still a couple waiting for story to catch up.

2: It's meant to support the long-haul work of players, not the ones who can spend extended short periods. Most war systems in the past were dominated by the team that could spend 24 hours playing in shifts. Missions are meant to even out playstyles, rewarding consistent playtime. We might adjust this with something like say, a random mission that appears for an hour and vanishes, but not in any meaningful shift.

3: The rooms are unequal, by about 3:2. It wasn't expected to be a big deal, as that's still hundreds of rooms.. but we've set the harvest rates to 2:3 now, so they should be the same.

4: They spawn the same as Ophidian Warriors. The Mitrine are risking less, as their territory isn't in contention. You just have to catch the warrior waves before they kill one another.

Emir

Tiur said:

4: They spawn the same as Ophidian Warriors. The Mitrine are risking less, as their territory isn't in contention. You just have to catch the warrior waves before they kill one another.

We're not talking about warriors that enter the ruins, we're talking about the Mitrine Outriders. They're a killable mob for the same mission. Imps have trappers and guards roaming their villages, and afaik Ophidians have Kobold dudes to kill and warriors that protect eggs or something. I've seen -1- Mitrine Outrider that wasn't a division of troops.

Toz

Yeah to do our missions we have to either kill imp trappers/troopers or attack their warlord. If we want to kill Mitrine we have to farm their warlord- the scouts/outriders/other thing mentioned in the mission for killing x npcs don't exist so far as any of us can tell. Mitrine village has elders, children and named mobs.

There are also 2 warriors by Ixiva.

I counted 15 Ophidian warriors in Great Rock before I got bored- the troops marching on the ruins are ignored almost universally though because if 4 or more hit me, I'm dying and I have a 55% cutting audit and 7k hp. And they all come in a wave. You can wait on them to fight and try to pick them off but this is slower and they still might come from adjacent and swarm you.

The difficulty for anyone not artied to complete our missions is a little nuts too, as even imp trap troopers can spike someone with a low audit for like 5k damage- I'd hate to be unartied and trying to participate.

Xenia

Teani said:

For number 3: I have noticed that there are a few river (and a few scarce grassland) rooms that don't have any plants at all. Some never have, so I doubt it's because it's been harvested down to nothing. 

If provided a list of areas not spawning harvestable items, would it be possible to get them updated (assuming it's not overly time consuming)?

Toz

Have you guys added outriders/other Mitrine mobs yet, or are they still not spawning any Mitrine mobs except for the warriors going to the ruins? It would be nice to (eventually) have some fairness on that front, and I've still not been able to find any of them, when I checked yesterday.

Satomi

@Xenia perfectly good opportunity to name this thread "War.. war never changes." and stick a Fallout thumbnail in there.

Xenia

Tiur said:

4: They spawn the same as Ophidian Warriors. The Mitrine are risking less, as their territory isn't in contention. You just have to catch the warrior waves before they kill one another.

Can you confirm if I understand this answer correctly: Because the RP of the Mitrine's situation is that they were not initially in a war, they did not post patrols and therefore elimination missions requiring deaths of the Mitrine Outriders, Scouts and warriors really means just Mitrine warriors and whatever exists of the Imps.

Eliadon

Toz said:

Have you guys added outriders/other Mitrine mobs yet, or are they still not spawning any Mitrine mobs except for the warriors going to the ruins? It would be nice to (eventually) have some fairness on that front, and I've still not been able to find any of them, when I checked yesterday.

Village edge overlooking the savanna.
--- Area 711: The town of Mitrine v60212 ---

The stars glimmer down, broken only upon occasion by thin wisps of clouds. There are 3 painted
Mitrine warriors here. Etarni stands watch here, hunter's gaze keen upon his surroundings. Etarni,
hunter of the Mitrine is a tutor. View HELP LEARNING for more information about learning skills.
You see exits leading north, southwest, and northwest.
5915[100%], 6090[92%], 100%, 99% -bscsdb K: 0 B: 0 03:660 qhspftram

You can see the following 3 objects:
"warrior227509" a painted Mitrine warrior.
"warrior227678" a painted Mitrine warrior.
"warrior227888" a painted Mitrine warrior.
5915[100%], 6222[94%], 100%, 99% ebscsdb K: 0 B: 0 07:014 qhspftrams

Do the missions not include these guys, or am I missing something?

Eowyn

Eliadon said:

Toz said:

Have you guys added outriders/other Mitrine mobs yet, or are they still not spawning any Mitrine mobs except for the warriors going to the ruins? It would be nice to (eventually) have some fairness on that front, and I've still not been able to find any of them, when I checked yesterday.

Village edge overlooking the savanna.
--- Area 711: The town of Mitrine v60212 ---

The stars glimmer down, broken only upon occasion by thin wisps of clouds. There are 3 painted
Mitrine warriors here. Etarni stands watch here, hunter's gaze keen upon his surroundings. Etarni,
hunter of the Mitrine is a tutor. View HELP LEARNING for more information about learning skills.
You see exits leading north, southwest, and northwest.
5915[100%], 6090[92%], 100%, 99% -bscsdb K: 0 B: 0 03:660 qhspftram

You can see the following 3 objects:
"warrior227509" a painted Mitrine warrior.
"warrior227678" a painted Mitrine warrior.
"warrior227888" a painted Mitrine warrior.
5915[100%], 6222[94%], 100%, 99% ebscsdb K: 0 B: 0 07:014 qhspftrams

Do the missions not include these guys, or am I missing something?

I think, with the removal of the Imps, the Mitrine were given a larger number of npcs in the village. These were not there before.

Toz

Eliadon said:

Have you guys added outriders/other Mitrine mobs yet, or are they still not spawning any Mitrine mobs except for the warriors going to the ruins? It would be nice to (eventually) have some fairness on that front, and I've still not been able to find any of them, when I checked yesterday.

Village edge overlooking the savanna. --- Area 711: The town of Mitrine v60212 --- The stars glimmer down, broken only upon occasion by thin wisps of clouds. There are 3 painted Mitrine warriors here. Etarni stands watch here, hunter's gaze keen upon his surroundings. Etarni, hunter of the Mitrine is a tutor. View HELP LEARNING for more information about learning skills. You see exits leading north, southwest, and northwest. 5915[100%], 6090[92%], 100%, 99% -bscsdb K: 0 B: 0 03:660 qhspftram You can see the following 3 objects: "warrior227509" a painted Mitrine warrior. "warrior227678" a painted Mitrine warrior. "warrior227888" a painted Mitrine warrior. 5915[100%], 6222[94%], 100%, 99% ebscsdb K: 0 B: 0 07:014 qhspftrams Do the missions not include these guys, or am I missing something?

Yeah you guys had 2 warriors in your entire village  before like Saturday. So we have been having to farm your warlord's reinforcements or imps for all our quests

Xenia

According to my NPC count prior to Sunday that counted towards the Extermination mission:
Ophidians:30ish (I lost count)
Mitrine: 4
Imps: 11, but pretty sure the ones in Sehal don't count.

Eowyn

Xenia said:

According to my NPC count prior to Sunday that counted towards the Extermination mission:
Ophidians:30ish (I lost count)
Mitrine: 4
Imps: 11, but pretty sure the ones in Sehal don't count.

Counted 34 Mitrine in village now, just to see how many there actually were.

Iazamat

CHANGELOG NEWS #1478
Date: 6/18/2018 at 13:07
From: Razmael, the Synthesist
To  : Everyone
Subj: Tunnel collapse
Oh dear,
One of the Ophidian Earthshapers was a bit careless and caused a collapse in their tunnels. It seems
like the entrance that let people bypass the open PK aura zone was the one affected. With the war 
effort going on, they probably won't be able to spare the manpower to repair it for a while.
No Ophidians were harmed in the making of this changelog.

With this change, the admin seem to be signaling that there shouldn't be a way to get into the villages that bypasses aura. However, Spirit side has multiple abilities that allow them to do just that. What's the ruling on this? Are we meant to counter with constant monoliths or is this an admin stance that will be hard-coded?

Stine

As long as there are Shadow characters willing to sit at the mission board without aura  - so we can’t attack them - and wait for people to walk in with aura so they can get slaughtered, I have no qualms as a player with teleporting people in. I would expect Shadow side to do the same thing with wormholes or otherwise. 

Fezzix

Stine said:

As long as there are Shadow characters willing to sit at the mission board without aura  - so we can’t attack them - and wait for people to walk in with aura so they can get slaughtered, I have no qualms as a player with teleporting people in. I would expect Shadow side to do the same thing with wormholes or otherwise. 

You have to go outside into the open pk zone for all but 2 of the missions, anyway.

Eliadon

Iazamat said:

With this change, the admin seem to be signaling that there shouldn't be a way to get into the villages that bypasses aura. However, Spirit side has multiple abilities that allow them to do just that. What's the ruling on this? Are we meant to counter with constant monoliths or is this an admin stance that will be hard-coded?

ab tarot empress - Boom, deliver pseudo-equivalent.
ab crystalism sonicportal - Boom, sciomancers can portal for the cost of free crystals.
ab subterfuge abduct - Boom, a Syssin can abduct you and you can safely pass through the open pk zone.
ab subterfuge splice - Boom, a Syssin could set up wormholes for you to safely traverse.
ab enchantment beacon - This one's expensive as crap please don't do this.

Or just bury your coffins in the Ophidian Empire.

Any combination of these will allow you to safely travel to the Ophidian Empire without acquiring an aura yourself! And in one case it will put you back in the perfect place for staging if you die!

For spiritside things:
Latency requires you to go to the Mitrine village and have aura, because you need to set the righteousness bit. Hey, pk aura!
Same with Pilgrimage.
Same with deliverance.
Same with sonicpor- oh... wait..

I suppose songlines count as 'can transport people', but that cost me wood! Wood, I say!

So if by 'multiple abilities', you mean 'one ability that doesn't have parity with Shadow abilities', sure.

We also don't really have active Syssin, and I'm pretty sure you could say defending that wormhole counts as war defense.
edit: I stand corrected, we have a few active Syssin and maybe one actual combatant Syssin.

Phoenecia

Yeah, gonna echo what Stine and Fezzix have already said. Plus, for a majority of the abilities that bypass the open PK zone, you have to have someone go through it to begin with. Setting up wormholes, Sonic portals, songlines, Shapeshifter marking, deliverance/pilgrimage, etc all require someone getting hostility aura in order to get into the base in order to set, so it's not entirely risk free. It also happens to be convenient. 

Toz

Abduct does not prevent you from aura and two of those you listed are neutral class, two are shared. So...idk.

Make mission boards in the city at meeting points and make Mitrine/Rock Bottom all open pk. Bam, done, balanced.

Eliadon

Toz said:

Abduct does not prevent you from aura and two of those you listed are neutral class, two are shared. So...idk.

Sure it can, just re-abduct them on cooldown until aura goes away.

The only really 'different' thing is songlines. The others all require that someone gets aura at some point.

edit: Mostly, I don't see how they're any different at all, aside from songlines. It's more available because we have more people in Templar/Lumie, sure, but you have classes that are perfectly capable of it. In fact, it could convince people to go the obviously superior to other Shadow classes Sciomancer class!

Mjoll

Toz said:

Abduct does not prevent you from aura and two of those you listed are neutral class, two are shared. So...idk.

Make mission boards in the city at meeting points and make Mitrine/Rock Bottom all open pk. Bam, done, balanced.

At least then I wouldn't have to wonder if my smols are gonna get attacked or not.

Phoenecia

Eliadon said:

We also don't really have active Syssin, and I'm pretty sure you could say defending that wormhole counts as war defense.

Uhhh. Me, Daren, Talonnb, and a bunch of other people Spirit side have Syssin. >_>

Eliadon

Phoenecia said:

Eliadon said:

We also don't really have active Syssin, and I'm pretty sure you could say defending that wormhole counts as war defense.

Uhhh. Me, Daren, Talonnb, and a bunch of other people Spirit side have Syssin. >_>

Wormholes, wormholes everywhere! Gogogogo, it is your duty.

Fezzix

Eliadon said:

Sure it can, just re-abduct them on cooldown until aura goes away.

Abduct cooldown is dependent upon the person who was abducted, not the person doing the abducting. This wouldn't work.

Emir

Everything available to Shadow side is something that requires risk or is only good for one player in a certain class. And some of that is only good for one login. Anw who has what is not the point.

No one I've talked to on Shadow side (that matters) is even the least bit upset about non-comms bypassing aura. 

Songline can be used to funnel an entire army of PKers into the village without aura and just sit there, waiting for Shadow side to make a move against any one person with aura. We can't target any of you, we can't gank any of you, you don't have aura, because you're bypassing it. I would have thought the admin's post made it pretty damn clear that you're meant to get aura going to the mission board, but maybe Spirit side needs some context. Shadow side players contacted the admin about the Ophidian bypass and said either both sides should have it or neither side. The admin did not respond to that message, but instead destroyed the Ophidian passage and made the changelog post Iazamat shared above.

Personally, I can draw 2 possible conclusions from that without them explicitly stating anything.

1.) At the time Shadow side was still disorganized and we hadn't yet begun to win 5v11 battles vs. Spirit (5 us 11 you). Clearly, Razmael is extremely biased against Shadow side and wanted Lifers to be able to gank even our non coms, so he decided to destroy the tunnel.

This seems unlikely. Next possible conclusion:

2.) You're not meant to bypass the aura.

Eliadon

Emir said:

Sure, but just bypass it anyway. Everyone (read: both Spirit and Shadow) has the ability to do so, and you can follow people through worm warp or pokey stick.

Pazradym

As someone who has simply walked through the combat area everytime I go to visit the mission board... is this really that big a deal? Maybe I am missing something, but fast walking through the contested area is only a few seconds, and aura fades... maybe 30 seconds after that once in a noncombat area?  I have just made it a habit to wander the safe area around the boards for the short delay and then go to board with no aura, since I have seen folks trying to set ambushes there, but honestly, I haven't had any issue with travel itself.

 Not trying to criticize, just trying to understand the concern.

I suppose if folk were setting up blocked exits and ambushes along walking paths it could be, but I havent seen any of this? Maybe its happening when I am not around?  I imagine it would be incredibly tedious for who ever was trying to do it >.>

Aishia

I feel like camping the mission boards in general is just cheesy either way.

Xenia

FWIW, I've not seen shadow side actively camping the mission board beyond the first 2 weeks of this event. There was one instance in which I fell victim to mission board camping from the spirit side, also within the first 2 weeks of the event. Actually, I think the person who was camping hardest defected from Shadow and went to Spirit tether!

Eowyn

Xenia said:

FWIW, I've not seen shadow side actively camping the mission board beyond the first 2 weeks of this event. There was one instance in which I fell victim to mission board camping from the spirit side, also within the first 2 weeks of the event. Actually, I think the person who was camping hardest defected from Shadow and went to Spirit tether!

We see it often right after the howling. Usually get chased off and we stay away for a while until those people leave. Happens nearly every other day. Only a few people who do it, but enough to make that time period 'meh'.