Not Sure if this is the right spot

EnsidiaEnsidia Member, Bot Posts: 5
THIS IS A LONG POST ON IN-GAME RACISM.
LET ME KNOW IF I NEED TO MOVE IT

Okay, so, in light of all of this hubbub between Imps and Ophidians and Mitrines, we've had some interesting issues arise. Pertaining more to me (actually Ensidia) is racism! Due to people not liking the Impire, Imps of all types seem to be clumped into one group and stereotyped. Of course being the strong, outspoken woman that Ensidia is, she has something to say!

Specifically (after a few of her citymates said some harsh words about Imps as a whole) she said this:

"I will say this one thing, and then I will be silent. I am an Imp. I
allowed myself to be upset by words, yes, but it is much more than that. When you say 'Imps are tricksters', 'Imps steal', 'Imps are conniving', 'Imps cannot be trusted', 'Imps hold no loyalty',
you are not only talking about Imps as a race, you are talking about me, I, who am supposed to be your comrade. I, who am supposed to fight alongside you in battle regardless of the odds. I, who will stand by your side and defend your very breath against the Underking Himself if need be, and who will spill the last drop of blood from my body for any of you, regardless of whether you are Mimotesh, or Toz, or Xenia, or Kanivara. For people who are supposed to be my brothers and sisters in blood to say such cruel things about me, it hurts. I know when you speak of Imps in such a way you do not mean me directly, but at the end of it all I am still included. It is racism, and it is something that is most painful when it comes from those that you have to trust with your life. I do love you all, and if you do decide that the Impire must fall then I will not hinder you- I have said this. I only ask that when you choose your words, you think more wisely on which ones you select. When you speak of Imps, you speak of me, of Buphorix, of Ipz, of Ansidia, of Malcanthet, of Louse. All perhaps not your friends, but regardless your allies. That is all."

Something heartfelt and that I felt personally attached to due to racial issues I have had myself, and just as they are in real life- in the game the racism was DISMISSED.

Ensidia is overreacting.

Now I ask you all this. If you take 'Imp' and replace it with 'black' or 'latino' or 'hispanic' or 'chinese' or whatever race you can think of- and then you replace the stereotypes against Imps with sterotypes against that race, will you still dismiss it? I've had several people say that my roleplay of these issues is overdramatic, that I am exaggerating, that I am making Ensidia seem hysterical, but should she not be? I will give you an example of my every day life.

As a BLACK WOMAN, I am under the influence of thousands of sterotypes. All we do is live off of the government. All we do is push out babies. We don't want to work. We don't want to earn our money. We just want to get child support. We just buy steak and lobster with our foodstamps. We lie. We steal. I live in a BRIGHT RED state, and if I had a dollar for every time someone disparaged me because of the color of my skin I'd have every artifact in this game.

I feel as though I am portraying Ensidia's outrage correctly, as it is according to the outrage I feel myself every day. I have had 'friends' make jokes about black people and gangs, black people and foodstamps, black people with missing fathers, and as I type this I've actually started to cry thinking about it. Yet when Ensidia as an Imp faces these issues from people that are supposed to be her family, she gets dismissed. A God/Admin even hopped on a city NPC and had the audacity to say basically: 'we have all sorts of races here. Stop using your race as an excuse to get mad. Sit back and have a smoke, drink, go have sex'. That is what she was told to do to deal with her issue. And her citymates agreed! Not one person stood up for her out of all of the people- higherups, GODS, that were paying attention to the scene.

("Kid, this city's weathered a lot of storms. We've got Trolls as citizens, allies, and ones that raid us. We've got Humans all over the map. Races ain't pure protected ideals. Can't jus' hide behind it or use it t'try to shut down other folks. They's talkin' about an Impire that's bein' a road hazard. An organization, not all folks who look a kind of way under the sun."
"Sometimes jus' have to sit back an' have a smoke. Have a tipple. Go visit a girl or whatever y'like.")

I don't feel like I am overreacting, and thusly I feel like Ensidia kept her cool more than I would have when faced with such odds. I am sure everyone else will feel that I am overreacting, that I am crazy, and that I am twisting words around (mostly because the majority of the playerbase hasn't had to deal with such issues. Let's be realistic), but I wanted to put this out there. When we play Aetolia, we are roleplaying. We are supposed to make our actions in the game as realistic as possible. So when you attack me on a personal level for how I demonstrate my extremely passionate PC, you are in the wrong. She is being faced with racism right now, her people are in a civil war. Her city has turned on her (in her eyes) because of her race.

She is applying the warpaint that she is being forced to don to defend not only her race, but herself from people that are supposedly her friends.

I ask that you all take this into account before you judge my roleplay or my character.
NahuaqueZaila

Comments

  • KanivaraKanivara Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Hi. Comanche here. When you yell this loudly about something -that wasn't even extant in the first place-, you really screw up the message that we're trying to get across to the taibo IRL. You just shot civil rights in the foot with a good portion of the playerbase of Aetolia, who are sick of Tumblr SJWs.

    You want to know why nobody backed you? It's because you're incorrect that everyone's talking about Imps. They're not. They're discussing the Impire, a faction of Imps, a -fraction- of the Imp population. They do not represent all Imps.

    Do the Crips and Bloods represent -you-? No, they don't, and it's utterly fallacious to state otherwise.
    Do the actions of the Ute and the Sioux represent the Comanche? No, they don't, and it's utterly fallacious to state otherwise.

    If you had read what was being said instead of dogwhistling, you'd get that nobody was talking about Imps as a whole. They were talking about -ONE- group of Imps, the Impire. Not the Sehal Imps, not the Imps anywhere else... and certainly not the race as a whole.

    As for donning warpaint... sweetie, no, you do not get to appropriate -MY- culture in an attempt to defend yours.

  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 177 ✭✭✭
  • EnsidiaEnsidia Member, Bot Posts: 5
    Kanivara said:

    Hi. Comanche here. When you yell this loudly about something -that wasn't even extant in the first place-, you really screw up the message that we're trying to get across to the taibo IRL. You just shot civil rights in the foot with a good portion of the playerbase of Aetolia, who are sick of Tumblr SJWs.

    You want to know why nobody backed you? It's because you're incorrect that everyone's talking about Imps. They're not. They're discussing the Impire, a faction of Imps, a -fraction- of the Imp population. They do not represent all Imps.

    Do the Crips and Bloods represent -you-? No, they don't, and it's utterly fallacious to state otherwise.
    Do the actions of the Ute and the Sioux represent the Comanche? No, they don't, and it's utterly fallacious to state otherwise.

    If you had read what was being said instead of dogwhistling, you'd get that nobody was talking about Imps as a whole. They were talking about -ONE- group of Imps, the Impire. Not the Sehal Imps, not the Imps anywhere else... and certainly not the race as a whole.

    As for donning warpaint... sweetie, no, you do not get to appropriate -MY- culture in an attempt to defend yours.

    Okay, so I'm going to stop you right there because I'm Lakota Sioux, so YOUR culture is OUR culture. I claim black because that is my biggest issue at the moment. That is what people see when they look at me. They don't see multiracial.

    And I'll say to you, sing you were one of the main ones inciting the racism, HER ISSUE WAS NOT WITH PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THE IMPIRE. Even as stated in my snippit I posted, it was people saying 'IMPS'.

    When people say BLACK it doesn't matter if they only mean one person. They used the whole group. When people say INDIAN, it doesn't matter if they're talking about one Indian, they've just used a term that describes all of India.

    Also, 'sweetie', you think Native Americans are the only ones that had warpaint? You're incompetent for that one.

    Keep your hateful comments to yourself next time, because you don't know what you're talking about, 'comanche'
    Nahuaque
  • EliadonEliadon Somewhere Over the RainbowMember Posts: 177 ✭✭✭
    Probably tone down the personal attacks if you want this to stay open for any length of time.
    TenshyoTeani
  • KynaKyna Victoria, AustraliaMember, Immortal Posts: 251 Immortal
    edited June 2018
    Yes. We don’t mind discussions, even encourage it, but if it becomes anymore flaming, or devolves into nothing but personal attacks, I will fun-police it and shut it down. We are keeping a close eye on this thread. 
    Tenshyo
  • ZailaZaila Pacific TimeMember Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    Are you intending this threat to be an OOC thread unrelated to aetolia, or are you wanting it to be discussing the topic of IC racism? I think you mean it to do the latter, and in that case, this should probably move to harpy's head.

    The three main thoughts I have about how this related to aetolia:

    1 - remember that In aetolia, races aren't "races" like humans IRL, races are literally different species of different kinds of mostly-bipedal humanoids. There are some hard and fast legit lore to different species.

    2 - your character doesn't need to be reasonable ICly! If you think your character is behaving according to their personality ICly, then keep on keeping on. If an older player comes to you OOCly and tries to explain to you that the way you're acting isn't in line with typical IC standards are, they're probably just trying to be helpful and make sure you get the most out of the game and you can just tell them "Thanks for the tip, but this is how my character would react" and keep with it. This goes the same the other way. If someone else's character is a racist jerk toward Atavians, your character's heartfelt plea isn't going to make an impact, but for some others, it will.

    3 - Everyone in aetolia is under a buttload of stereotypes. The different cities, species, wealth, guild, god, etc. All these things in aetolia come with stereotypes, it's part of the richness of the world.
    SaritaOonaghTeani
  • ElliotElliot AustraliaMember Posts: 32 ✭✭
    Toz said:

    And finally, we have the vampires. Who literally have sex slaves chained up, in several places. Who impregnate said slaves to make more meatbags to eat.

    If there is a god, there will be no more vampire pregnancy RP. Please. :|

    ZailaEnsidiaTeaniLeana
  • IstelaIstela Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    First off I would like to point out you were NOT dismissed, I said I would speak with you privately as a measure to stop the IN CHARACTER drama. It is my job as a SENATOR to do so for the health and comfort of other citizens (players.)

    You have blown it way out of proportion and from what I have seen have taken this further than needed to be in the first place. You fail to include personal attacks you launched against other spirean citizens, while claiming racism? No one can see your actual race behind a computer in an IRE game. No one was even lumping you into it.

    Now that said, you had every option to rectify the issue before going off on a warrior woman rampage. Pick your hills to die on. I can't tell you the sheer amount of crap I have dealt with, however much of my problem was my OWN doing.

    What I am trying to say is no one singularly pulled YOUR character in and said anything negative about her. You are as I said free to voice your opinions and complaints, but do so constructively if you don't give anyone a chance to fix it before blowing a gasket, you're going to run out of gaskets to blow.
  • EnsidiaEnsidia Member, Bot Posts: 5
    If Aetolian races aren't 'races' then they shouldn't even be called that in the game. That being said, whether they are races or not does not change the issue- Which I have stated repeatedly. People are taking a whole diverse people and grouping them into one cage. No one seems to be able to look past their own egos to see that part.

    Everyone keeps going back to the 'oh, there are a million races and spinesreach is 'evil' blah blah blah portion, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand! There are a million races in real life, but that doesn't mean racism does not exist. If I say 'all white people are racist', isn't that racist? And then use the excuse 'well we have lots of races so what I said isn't racist', doesn't that seem absurd? Yes, I am comparing IG racism to OOC racism because it's the same thing, but 'cuter' as Toz puts it. And while we're on the topic of Toz, I would like to respond NON-CONFRONTATIONALLY about the Imps and the Pixies. IGly siding with the Ophidians, okay, but didn't they slaughter the beast cultists?

    And as I said, I wasn't sure where to put this. If you'd like I'll repost in Harpy's head, but this is an OOC issue with IC goings-ons. Really I have no clue where it belongs. As Kanivara gracefully demonstrated, I have been OOCly attacked for my IC views and opinions, so I assumed that overall this post would be better in the OOC section. I am not attempting to incite some sort of funky race war, as I'm sure I'm outnumbered on that front. :} I'd lose horribly.
    NahuaqueLeana
  • EnsidiaEnsidia Member, Bot Posts: 5
    Ensidia said:



    If I say 'all white people are racist', isn't that racist? And then use the excuse 'well we have lots of races so what I said isn't racist', doesn't that seem absurd?



    Let me expand on this before I put my own foot in my mouth. If I say 'white people are racist' even if I am only talking about, say, Benedicto, I did not single out Benedicto (not sure what race he is!! Just using an example!!), I instead used white people as a whole to express my frustration towards one person or group, which is never okay.
    Nahuaque
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